2

6/23/2008 12:11:26 PM

Quote :

"^^^ because churches are legally tax-exempt organizations. One of the consequences of their particular tax-exempt status is that they are not allowed to actively participate in political campaigns, which includes voting recommendations. This is obviously a loosely-enforced law, and churches attempt to get around it in many ways as well, such as distributing "voting issues guides", which will describe the candidate's stances on topics, with the church-supported candidate written up much more favorably. But explicitly endorsing a candidate is strictly forbidden by the law. "

yeah, i don't think churches should be doing this.

to be fair, though, it's not just Southern Baptists and the political right.

6/23/2008 12:16:48 PM

Quote :

"Something tells me this "burn" is more like a suntan and the students probably didn't feel any pain. But let's go with burn because it sounds so sensational."

yeah, for real -- look at them getting all upset because a teacher physically modified their kids with some minor scarification in the name of Christ Jesus.

those damn heathen parents just need to STFU. they're obviously just trying to get some attention and lawsuits.

we all know Mr. Freshwater holds the good, God-fearing Judeo-Christian values of the community in his heart of hearts.

6/23/2008 12:17:48 PM

I believe in Christianity. I also don't believe in burning crosses onto peoples' arms. Just because somebody else did it under the guise of Christianity doesn't make all Christians lunatics. From what I've read in this thread, joe, it looks like you have more problems with Christians beyond what this guy did. FWIW, I don't know of any point in the Bible wear it promotes marking the body with a cross.

6/23/2008 12:30:06 PM

theres a lot of things in the bible that christians ignore.... and a lot of things christians attribute to their faith that aren't bible-based.

i dont have problems with the average christian.

i do have a problem with radical christian fundamentalists, the vocal minority who have hijacked the religious dialogue in this nation.

6/23/2008 12:34:05 PM

that sounds more reasonable.

one thing about the article that seemed odd to me was there was only one picture of one of these crosses. the whole thing is built around it but the photo slideshow is just people standing around. does the video show more evidence to the whole thing? some of this stuff just surprises me... the older i get the more it seems like kids now are a bunch of sheep. some idiot would have had a fight to burn something on me, even in the 8th grade.

6/23/2008 12:42:54 PM

^^ everyone should have a problem with that crowd. i think you do come across as bitter against the entire religion at times, though.

6/23/2008 12:47:42 PM

Quote :

"yeah, for real -- look at them getting all upset because a teacher physically modified their kids with some minor scarification in the name of Christ Jesus. those damn heathen parents just need to STFU. they're obviously just trying to get some attention and lawsuits. we all know Mr. Freshwater holds the good, God-fearing Judeo-Christian values of the community in his heart of hearts. "

They're in the 8th grade. They can think for themselves. It's not like he forced them to do it. This is only a little worse than writing on them with a permanent marker.

You're the biggest drama queen on TWW today.

6/23/2008 12:55:58 PM

Quote :

"They're in the 8th grade. They can think for themselves. It's not like he forced them to do it. "

and you know this..... how?

6/23/2008 1:27:32 PM

Because the media would eat that shit up. Sensationalizing what really did happen = not much of a story to begin with.

6/23/2008 2:34:19 PM

Skack, you're a fool. 8th graders are 12 year olds. Whereas this teacher is a grown man of about 50 years old, and had been a well-regarded science teacher in his school district for 20-some years.

you people are on crack if you think some 12 year old kid is going to stand up to a 50 year old science teacher, who has the apparent full authority of school, community and CHURCH behind him

especially... and let me emphasize this part: ESPECIALLY considering the full force of peer pressure within the classroom.

as a parent, if some teacher -- religious nut or otherwise -- performs scarification (temporary or otherwise) on my kid, I'll be after him to string him up by the fucking balls.




[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2008 2:37:09 PM

Quote :

"Skack, you're a fool. 8th graders are 12 year olds. "

If a kid enters kindergarten as a 5 year old he will be either 13 or 14 in the eighth grade depending on whether or not he has had his birthday yet.

I'm young enough to remember the 8th grade. 8th graders are some of the most disrespectful little assholes you'll ever meet. They love the opportunity to make adults look like jackasses (which probably has a lot to do with this making the news.) Nice try though. Did I mention you're being a drama queen today?

[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : l]

6/23/2008 2:45:25 PM

Quote :

"They're in the 8th grade. They can think for themselves. It's not like he forced them to do it."

That's the same argument that people use to defend pedophiles and child abusers.
"The kid should have stopped them/spoken up, etc."
It ususally takes a sharp change in the child's behavior that is noticed by someone else, or a physical marking, like this, and an outside intervention for any kind of abuse to stop. Because, let's face it, this was child abuse. I hope they fucking stone his ass.

6/23/2008 2:45:56 PM

Yeah, because a lot of pedophiles do their thing in front of a full classroom of students. The forces at work are exactly the same. gg.

6/23/2008 2:47:19 PM

wow, way to miss the point entirely. "gg"

6/23/2008 2:49:32 PM

I got the point loud and clear.

Quote :

"Because, let's face it, this was child abuse. I hope they fucking stone his ass."

I too hope they slay him. KILL KILL KILL. rofl.

Like I said, I bet these kids didn't feel any pain. It looks more to me like they got a suntan than a burn of any sort. I'd really like to know more about the tool this guy used before I condemn anyone to a stoning. Sorry I couldn't be more irrational like the rest of you.

6/23/2008 2:58:36 PM

skack, go on continue to dig yourself into a hole. your logic is so twisted, you're proving my point for me.

Quote :

" Mr. Freshwater’s Use Of An Electrostatic Device On Students In His Science Class Overview Another part of the complaint against Mr. Freshwater was that he burned crosses into students’ arms causing pain from the burns. ... Other Interviews and Findings The investigators examined the device in question. It is a Model BD-10A High Frequency Generator manufactured by Electro-Technic Products Inc. in Chicago Illinois. ... The parents who filed the complaint said their primary concern was what had been done to their child’s arm and why? They were also concerned about it being a cross. The marks on their child’s arm caused pain the night of the incident, December 6, 2007, however they said that part of the pain could have been due to the spot being further irritated by the equipment he wore later that evening. They stated the burn remained on their child’s arm for three or four weeks. They said that they did not take the issue to the police or the hospital because of concern regarding what would happen to Mr. Freshwater. They didn’t want him to go to jail. ... The current or former students that were interviewed that had participated in the December 2007 incident or other similar incidents in earlier years described the demonstration in the same manner as had Mr. Freshwater with one exception. The all described the mark Mr. Freshwater put on his arm as a “cross”. ... The parents and student who filed the complaint indicated the burn marks remained on the student’s arm for approximately three to four weeks. ... The investigators contacted the President of Electro-Technic Products Inc. who stated that the device should not be used on individuals and e-mailed written instructions that state, “Never touch or come in contact with the high voltage output of this device, nor with any device it is energizing.” (Copy of warning label as Attachment 17). Summary Of Findings Mr. Freshwater did improperly use an electrostatic device on the student who filed the complaint and other students in his science class in a manner that was not in compliance with the manufacturer’s instructions. While there did not appear to be any intent by Mr. Freshwater to cause injury to any student, he was not using the device for its intended purpose. Contrary to Mr. Freshwater’s statement he simply made an “X” not a “cross,” all of the students described the marking as a “cross” and the pictures provided depict a “cross”. --MOUNT VERNON CITY SCHOOLS INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF A COMPLAINT REGARDING JOHN FRESHWATER (pp. 8-10) "

[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2008 3:03:17 PM

anyhow, the cross burning is just part of the overall problem. the problem is, we have here a man who uses the Bible to teach science in a public school.

Quote :

"A teacher who was present in Mr. Freshwater’s classroom on a substitute basis for one period in either 2006 or 2007 (The teacher could not recall which year) stated in a written statement (Copy as Attachment 15):       “The lesson of the day had been on the creation of the universe. John talked about how       the textbook could be wrong. He said, ‘Let me give you an example of how science can       be wrong.’ He then went on to say that an article in Time magazine a few years back       stated that scientists had found a genetic link to homosexuality. ‘In that case science is       wrong because the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin’ and so anyone who is gay       chooses to be gay and therefore is a sinner. My reaction was one of disbelief that he was       saying these things to eighth graders. I thought of how those two or three students in that       classroom who might be struggling with their sexual identities would be feeling, hearing       that they were sinners from a teacher. … I was surprised at how comfortable John was       talking about the Bible stating that homosexuality is a sin, and that anyone who is gay       makes a conscious choice to be so. … He had no problem declaring that not only can       science be wrong by the example he gave, but heavily implied that the students’ textbook       was wrong as well on how the universe was created.” ... When asked, Mr. Freshwater would offer his personal opinion such as I believe there was a boat in a flood. He also taught that you can’t trust radiometric dating. ... Mr. Freshwater and he acknowledged to them, contrary to our interview, that he “might have discussed” the meaning of Easter and Good Friday, including the “Resurrection,” for one or two minutes. The Superintendent advised Mr. Freshwater that was one or two minutes too long. The investigators found the following material in the second cupboard in the front of the room during a walk through of Mr. Freshwaters’ classroom on May 15, 2008: · A book titled “Refuting Evolution” · A video tape titled “Lies In The Textbooks, Part A 4 Of 7, 10 Lies Of Evolution” · A book titled “Evolution Of A Creationist” · A book titled “The Real Meaning Of The Zodiac” · A book titled “Icons of Evolution” --MOUNT VERNON CITY SCHOOLS INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF A COMPLAINT REGARDING JOHN FRESHWATER (p. 7)"

[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2008 3:15:23 PM

So is corporal punishment fine in that district? I thought it wasn't in most areas now.

6/23/2008 3:17:49 PM

This is still not nearly as bad as "Christian Teacher Burns Students on Crosses"

6/23/2008 5:45:24 PM

lol. nice.

thanks for bringing perspective

6/23/2008 7:10:48 PM

Wait...the Zodiac? What does that have to do with..anything? Not even science specifically, but anything at all that you need to learn in school?



The man's job should be terminated based on "doing irrelevant crap all the time," even if this whole violation of church and state thing doesn't turn out to be enough.

6/23/2008 7:19:28 PM

Quote :

"hooksaw, don't be such a tard. you know (or should know) the distinction between normal, mainstream christian - and moonbat fundamentalist."

joe_schmoe

Yeah, I do. I don't see you making such a distinction, though.

Quote :

"Hello, all you batshit crazy Christians! You people have no tolerance and therefore you deserve no tolerance whatsoever. your crazy cultlike behaviors should be viewed as symptoms of pathological sickness, not a constitutional right of expression"

joe_schmoe

6/23/2008 7:48:16 PM

he actually makes the distinction in the two words immediately preceding christians in that quote

6/23/2008 7:50:01 PM

^ you're right, i am qualifying a subset of the larger body of Christians, and referring only to those of the "batshit crazy" variety.

but in fairness to hooksaw, i do see how one might think I'm painting all christians as being batshit crazy. english language can be ambiguous at times.

for the record:

(1) I do not think all Christians are batshit crazy. In fact, i think the quiet majority of Christians are reasonable and sane, and many of them quite intelligent and thoughtful

(2) i do think that most, if not all, radically fundamental Christians have a pathological disorder. they are a minority, although a rather large one, but their disproportionate volume and influence makes them appear to be much larger in numbers than they are.

this group of politically active radical fundamentalists, are as a group intolerant, unwilling to engage in dialogue, are anti-democratic in nature, are actively involved in subverting the Constitutional government of the United States into one of a theocracy that they believe is ordained by their god.

they are enemies of freedom, and deserve no tolerance from the tolerant society they wish to bend into submission to their idea of a state-sanctified godhead.




[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 8:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2008 8:57:15 PM