IT FEELS LARGE IT REALLY REALLY DOES... maybe its because when i drive one i can't see the end of the nose or the end of the trunk and i just associate that with a general feeling of bigness... As i said before... it just doesn't feel tossable or flickable... 6" here 6" there doesn't seem much but look at the next model 370z vx the current 350z and 6" makes a big different. it makes one look a lil abnormal and the other look slightly bloated.


in my opinion

6/24/2008 4:46:47 PM

Thanks for the replies. I didnt mean to get started on a sports car vs muscle car debate.

I'm new to the whole car buying thing. parents bought my previous car and I've never done it myself so I'm just hesitant to buy from a private party.

6/24/2008 6:11:27 PM

Quote :

"E36 M3s are very good cars IMO. I'd probably pick an S2k with a 14k budget for a "sports car" however."

Don't buy a Honda.

6/24/2008 6:27:42 PM

if sports cars are light weight, nothing out of Germany can claim to be one

2007 GT3 @ 3000 lbs is still on the porky side

6/24/2008 9:03:34 PM

Quote :

"so I'm just hesitant to buy from a private party."

dont be a puss..learn what it feels like to not be ripped off

6/24/2008 9:13:06 PM

I still love my RX-8. I am beginning to track it and wish I had done it sooner.

Good news: Mazda increased powertrain warranty to 60k last year and the engine core warranty to 100k last year for all RX-8s through 08.

Bad news: I had my tranny replaced at 50k. Synchros on 4th and 5th kicked the bucket (warranty).

6/24/2008 9:49:54 PM

If the Corvette isn't a sports car, I don't know what is. This is true more now than ever. The fact that (besides being front engined, rear drive 2 seater) the power and handling keep increasing while the weight and price stay almost the same is reason enough.

6/24/2008 9:54:22 PM

RX8

Bad news : 18mpg, less torque, and less reliability then anything in its class.

the 2009 MY looks sexy as hell I will say though

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 9:57 PM. Reason : .]

6/24/2008 9:57:37 PM

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/car/728868367.html

6/24/2008 10:07:58 PM

I've bought both of the cars I've owned from private parties, and haven't had any problems with those vehicles.

6/24/2008 11:45:51 PM

i can't understand why it's so complicated for people to understand what class a car belongs in. vette is a sports car, period. f-bodys and mustangs aren't, they're pony cars. the late model gto is a muscle car. the list goes on.

speaking of the gto tennisdude, they are selling at incredible deals.

6/25/2008 12:18:39 AM

vette is a sports car by any definition, except by feel.

6/25/2008 12:39:28 AM

thankfully, feel doesn't determine anything. or there'd be a whole host of british sports cars stripped of their designation.

6/25/2008 1:44:02 AM

Quote :

"where does all the hatred for f-bodys come from any way. ive seen you try to make this argument for quite some time. "

I'm not an F-body hater. If I owned a stable of cars, I'd probably have a mega-powerful Z28 in the mix. It is not a sports car though. Not even arguably.



and yeah, the 'Vette (even the C6, though it is smaller) drives bigger than it is, in my opinion. I drove a Z51 equipped C6 back to back with my Evo IX, and the 'Vette felt substantially bigger and heavier (although it's probably a couple hundred pounds lighter). The 'Vette handles well, but it feels...substantial, not unlike an E46 M3 (whereas the Evo or even an S2000 feels smaller, lighter on the controls, more nimble/agile/high strung, etc).

6/25/2008 2:07:14 AM

duke excluded because he knows the deal, but i'm so tired of hearing this "it feel so big" or "it doesnt feel smooth/nimble" shit. the c5/c6 is a pure american car. it's not going to coddle you along like your bmw's and porsches. you have to pick your balls up, strap in, and drive the damn thing... don't let it drive you. it's going to try to kick you in the ass every chance it gets, you do the same. it's raw, rough, and takes a true driver to treat it as it should be. bottom line, you can't discount any car just because you're too much of a pussy to drive it properly. i mean fuck, i hear my mom say sumfoo1ish things like she can't see over the hood of her cadillac parking at food lion.

again, f-body is a pony car.

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 2:18 AM. Reason : weenies, all of you]

6/25/2008 2:14:10 AM

Darn it, I'm getting bored with my -can do no wrong-, and finally very quick (around a road course that is) M3. This may be the end of the line for me and the e36/BMW. :'( Wonder which not really sports car I should get next. Hmm, EVO, hmmm. Been talking about it for like 2 years, about time perhaps...

I don't "hate" any car, but there are few cars I'm less interested in than an Fbody. I find that amusing, Duke and I generally have similar interests in cars.
Ahmet

6/25/2008 2:14:24 AM

Bigblue, this is really quite the tangent but as a side note;

It's amazing how much easier it is to drive capable cars with shitty seats (like Vettes, or base 911s or what have you) once proper seats/harnesses are in place. The feeling of impersonal controls/feedback, or "bigness" is influenced in a rather significant way by crappy seats/lack of support.
Ahmet

6/25/2008 2:18:27 AM

i vote something completely off the wall, and laugh at all the haters.
http://youtube.com/user/CobraVic

^i couldn't agree more. stock c5 seats suck donkey balls, especially with some age on them. that's kind of the style i learned to drive though... no excuses for equipment, make do with that you have and tame the car.

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 2:29 AM. Reason : .]

6/25/2008 2:26:08 AM

^^^ i have no interest in a Z28 being my only car. Still, a really powerful one is fun as a novelty. It's kinda like a Hayabusa or ZX-14...If I were going to have a fleet of motorcycles, I'd have a few other things first (a 600cc race-replica, a custom cruiser, a touring bike, and THEN maybe a hyper-powerful straight-liner. let's be honest, here...it isn't the highest and greatest form of driving enjoyment or motorsport, but grabbing a big handful of gas on a 9 second motorcycle or getting slammed back into your seat in a hotrodded muscle/pony car is fun in its own way.)


^^^^ yeah, the 'Vette will do great things for you, but not if you drive it like a limp-wristed pussy. You have to grab it by the collar and make it do what you want it to do (as opposed to the Evo, which will absolutely demolish a corner at astonishing speeds with you driving one-hand on the wheel, not really even trying, scanning through the trees for cops around the bend instead of really even paying attention to the corner you're ripping through at slip angles that would long since have you in the ditch in most cars)

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 2:31 AM. Reason : that said, the 'Vette feels to me like it might bite you hard if you got hamfisted with it.]

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 2:32 AM. Reason : i provoked that Z51 C6 into a little oversteer just by changing lanes very quickly (feeling it out)]

6/25/2008 2:30:13 AM

the c5/c6 is very forgiving up to a certain point, well past most vehicles. there is no gray area though. you cross that line, that's it. the factory active handling system does an adequate job keeping novices out of trouble. i see it more of a training tool than anything to actually use in competition.

however, it can be fairly extensively tweaked and tuned just like engine management. i can drive my car with 305 drag radials in the rain like a jackass and it keeps me just inside that magic line. cut it off, and it becomes just like every other high hp devil car on dot race tires. it's like driving on ice

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 2:53 AM. Reason : .]

6/25/2008 2:48:43 AM

i never knew that there was any real support for hotrodding the stability control. only car i've ever owned that had it was the 330ci, and i only owned it for about 3 months.

6/25/2008 3:21:14 AM

anyhow, i wouldn't hesitate at all to buy from a private party (not like buying from a used car dealer is gonna really protect you from much of anything, anyway).

C5 'Vette is a lot of sports car for the buck. S2000 is a sweet ride, too. both can be had in good shape with fairly low miles for low to mid teens.

I say screw the WRX...nothing at all wrong with it, but for that money, if you want/need a backseat, I'd get a 330i/330ci (or G35 coupe).

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 3:46 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

6/25/2008 3:44:09 AM

This is just for Ahmet: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/lotus-over-porsche-gt3-you-bet-58256/

6/25/2008 4:23:06 AM

^

Quote :

"Maybe I'm missing something (which is highly possible since I don't run DE events). If the DE events are not races (rather, they're schools that teach high speed driving skills), then how does passing everyone in your run group prove the superiority of either the car or the driver that's doing the passing? And how would you know whether your success in passing is the result of driver skills or of vehicle dynamics? Not trying to provoke anything or anyone with this question, but just pondering whether the conclusions are justified. Thanks."

from the same thread

6/25/2008 8:25:29 AM

i tried to buy a LS2 GTO a couple weeks ago, but they would not budge off the asking price more than $400. They were way above blue book, edmunds, etc, didn't matter. Truth was they knew they could sell it for the price they wanted.

LS1 GTOs are a little different, they can be had alot easier

6/25/2008 8:29:32 AM

I like the non vented hood but the ls2 would be nice...

6/25/2008 9:38:23 AM

I know I'm supposed to like the Elise, but I was just not impressed after driving one back to back with a GT3.

Who's "faster" at a DE means zilch. Here's a video of me passing a Z06 on R comps in a stock Integra Type R, in the instructor/highest run group:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=70IY0OJK6mc

If "passing" someone at a DE means anything at all, I have yet to not pass a SINGLE Lotus of any kind, in my daily street driven e36 M3 on street tires.
Ahmet

6/25/2008 10:22:27 AM

BUY an EVO ahmet!

6/25/2008 11:03:53 AM

buying from a dealer (at least in nc) does give you 3 days in which you can return the car and get your money back for any reason. most everyone does not know that.

6/25/2008 11:15:02 AM

^^^Yeah at a DE even a few years ago I was putting an Evo to shame. Hence, my GSR is faster than Evos

6/25/2008 12:31:14 PM

Awww i've missed bbr.

6/25/2008 1:42:53 PM

Sorry, the point of posting that wasn't about "passing people" at a DE event. It was about the GT3 driver and instructor who personally found the Lotus a much more fun car to drive.

Also, there is a BIG difference between a stock Elise and TurboPhil's elise (hence the name). He's running about 280hp, which turns the car into a completely different monster.

Ahmet, I'd recommend trying out a S240 Exige, or a Cup Car if they'll let you take one out on a track day. I think you might just change your mind

6/25/2008 1:43:32 PM

Quote :

"duke excluded because he knows the deal, but i'm so tired of hearing this "it feel so big" or "it doesnt feel smooth/nimble" shit. the c5/c6 is a pure american car. it's not going to coddle you along like your bmw's and porsches."

It takes skill to drive corvette hard at the limit, no one is disputing that. That's given, but the essence of a sports car is nimble, confident handling.

6/25/2008 2:24:28 PM

That would be sick... one of my friend's dad's got a gt3 for a track car and was really affraid of it... and as soon as he got comfy... he looped it and went ass first into the walll... moral of this story... don't let off and more importantly DON'T HIT THE BRAKES! when you drive in too deep w/ a gt3

he now owns one of the pretty colored aston track cars.
I'd love to drive the exige 240 i bet its like my sisters old supercharged mr2 on crack.

6/25/2008 2:27:11 PM

^did he have a lot of track experience, or jump in head first with a GT3. B/c thats sounds like a pretty big rookie mistake for someone driving a 911

6/25/2008 2:30:59 PM

First 911 he had other cars on the track but more traditional non track cars... like a ford gt and a ferrari 355

6/25/2008 2:48:15 PM

sweet rides for sure. And thats awesome that he uses them as they're intended!

6/25/2008 3:08:38 PM

Quote :

"Sorry, the point of posting that wasn't about "passing people" at a DE event. It was about the GT3 driver and instructor who personally found the Lotus a much more fun car to drive. Also, there is a BIG difference between a stock Elise and TurboPhil's elise (hence the name). He's running about 280hp, which turns the car into a completely different monster. Ahmet, I'd recommend trying out a S240 Exige, or a Cup Car if they'll let you take one out on a track day. I think you might just change your mind "

The elise is a great concept (hell I wanted one until i actually got into one) but I don't think you get enough for the money. They are >30 grand used.

Luckily its so unique you cant compare apples to apples and feel "ripped off".

6/25/2008 6:03:28 PM

^Yeah, they hold their value pretty well so far. I think by this time next year though, you'll be able to get an 05 with <20k miles for probably closer to 25 thousand. And the S models drop in price QUICK, because they are notorious for being owned by one-uppers (aka they'll trade it in as soon as the next year model hits), so dealerships unload them

6/25/2008 8:03:36 PM

Hmm, maybe I should consider one of these when the time comes for a new car

6/25/2008 8:37:50 PM

I've driven an AP2 s2000 with bolt ons and I've driven a C5 Z06 wit bolt ons. People who think it's too big... it feels like a bigger car than the smallest of the 2 seater sports car (Miata) but the balance of power and handling (I'm talking Z06 here) makes up for it, although I never really pushed either car really hard in the turns. S2000 has acceptable power but needs more torque or less weight. FD Rx-7's on factory turbos are like s2000's with a more acceptable amount of total torque (and a more responsive engine overall if the FD is running right) and similar oversteering tendencies, although the torque won't kick you in the ass like a Z06.

6/26/2008 8:42:25 AM

yeah.

also, bolt-ons on an S2000 are a waste of time and money, unless maybe if it's already force fed.

6/26/2008 10:18:25 AM

You'd be a complete douche to buy an EVO with the intent of seriously advancing your driving skills.

Passing cars at HPDEs doesn't mean anything??? I've passed a Ferrari (the one the wrecked, doh) and an Audi R8 in the E30. And when i tracked the 540i once, i passed a Lotus Elise! THE E30 ISNT GOD'S CHARIOT FOR NOTHING!

6/26/2008 11:26:16 AM

^^

Doing much of anything outside of 7+ psi is worthless on the s2k.

6/26/2008 1:22:55 PM

that's not completely true. you have to upgrade the fuel system, and maybe put on a thicker head gasket.

but there are dudes making 350rwhp with 8ish psi

6/27/2008 1:21:39 AM

it's a little over 14k, but a pretty damn good deal and it sounds like he's a motivated seller that might come down even more.
http://horsepowerjunkies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66312&page=1

6/27/2008 4:39:28 AM

^^

Plenty of people run 7-10 psi with stock engine.

Obviously you need a fuel pump and injectors.

The kraftwerks kit runs 10psi on the stock block ~360whp.

6/27/2008 7:55:03 AM

i don't get what you're saying, then. are you saying that anything less than 7psi is a waste of time and money, not unlike S2000 bolt-ons?

6/27/2008 3:09:46 PM

Quote :

"Doing much of anything outside of 7+ psi is worthless on the s2k."

I was agreeing with you.

6/27/2008 4:09:23 PM

ok, gotcha. not sure how i misread that.

I wouldn't say a stock Comptech kit (at 5.5-6) psi is worthless. whether it's worth it in terms of bang for the buck, assuming you stop there at stock boost, I'm not so sure (I got mine already done for a helluva deal).

6/27/2008 4:15:07 PM