I'm going to point to QB play as well.

In past years, ACC teams have had stable QBs that you knew would start every saturday and produce... for example: rivers, weinke, vick(s), dorsey, berlin, guy from clemson a year or 2 back....etc...etc...

the ACC really hasn't had any solid QBs in the last year or so. Seems like after every game there is a QB controversy.
I know a QB isn't the whole team, but they are the leader and can make stuff happen

8/31/2008 9:45:12 AM

Everyone who is pointing toward specific positions being the problem(o-line, qbs, skill players) need to see that it is all a product of coaching and lack of it. That all falls under the umbrella of recruiting and coaching up those recruits.

Lol guy on sports reporters just now:

"As good as the sec looked, the ACC looked equally as bad. Clemson was suppose to be the conferences best team and they looked bad."

8/31/2008 10:17:29 AM

There are not as much leaders in the acc as there use to be. On offense you have to have a commanding presence, usually at QB, to take charge of the offense. The ACC has no QB's like this. You have to have a QB that the team respects and can take charge and tell the other guys what to do.

8/31/2008 10:32:36 AM

The thing is before expansion the ACC was a basketball conference with a mediocre football tradition. You had FSU that was dominant and then the flavor of the season, be it Clemson, GT, State, Carolina, Virginia, Maryland. We decided to expand so we could get more money. Miami has a rich tradition but they are a roller coaster they have lots valley's to go with the peaks. VT was good for a few seasons and BC is and was always a mid-tier team. The problem is basketball has been surpassed by the Big East now as the premiere bball conference. Plus factor in the NBA's policy and it makes college basketball having more parity. I do believe the ACC will get stronger in football but it will be 5 years down the road. Butch Davis is going to make Carolina a player it sucks but its true. Carolina has seen what Florida did and they have more rich alumni than Florida does. NC State is always going to be a mid-level sports school. The sooner you accept that the better you will be. Yes we will have years where we are great but we will never compete with the Carolinas/Floridas/ Ohio States of the world.

8/31/2008 11:49:00 AM

When you hire coaches who can't deliver on the hype machines that they promise, you will always get subpar coaching. O'Brien is the same as Tammy Bowden and Butch Davis. He's all talk and no results. Why do you think that O'Brien couldn't beat a 5-6 Miami team who had already fired Larry Coker? Why do you think that O'Brien couldn't beat a 5-6 Syracuse team and lead Boston College to a automatic BCS bid in a weak Big East without Miami or Virginia Tech?

Butch Davis will continue to struggle with actual game day coaching and the same with O'Brien.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Keep chopping wood in daytight compartments while building relationships!

8/31/2008 12:23:59 PM

Carolina has never had a commitment to football so I hardly see how they can be lumped in with the Ohio States of the college football world. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Butch bolt at the 1st great opportunity, he did it when he was at Miami, and Miami's tradition and prowess makes carolina's look very insigificant.

Also, great programs change. It takes the right level of commitment and coaching, and a little bit of luck. If Wake freakin' Forest can compete for an ACC title and make it to a BCS game, there isn't any reason why other schools cannot follow. This "oh you're small potatoes and you shouldn't expect to compete" shit is for losers.

As for O'Brien, he has to get his players into his program, simple as that. It took him a little while to get started at BC as well, it's all about the quality of the players, both athletically and mentally (attitude wise, having players that buy into and are committed to O'Brien's vision).

We took about 65 players to Columbia, 29 of which were freshman. It's hard to compete with that kind of attrition and youth right out of the gate.

8/31/2008 1:08:43 PM

Quote :

"If Wake freakin' Forest can compete for an ACC title and make it to a BCS game, there isn't any reason why other schools cannot follow. This "oh you're small potatoes and you shouldn't expect to compete" shit is for losers. "

Yea but they got Riley "Free ballin" Skinner doin naked photos over there and that might be just the kind of magic to propel a team to the next level.

8/31/2008 1:30:51 PM

Quote :

"When you hire coaches who can't deliver on the hype machines that they promise, you will always get subpar coaching. O'Brien is the same as Tammy Bowden and Butch Davis. He's all talk and no results. Why do you think that O'Brien couldn't beat a 5-6 Miami team who had already fired Larry Coker? Why do you think that O'Brien couldn't beat a 5-6 Syracuse team and lead Boston College to a automatic BCS bid in a weak Big East without Miami or Virginia Tech? Butch Davis will continue to struggle with actual game day coaching and the same with O'Brien. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Keep chopping wood in daytight compartments while building relationships! "

This post is completely off.

Tom O'Brien inherited a clusterfuck that he is in the process of unfucking. As one guy said, NC State walked into Columbia with a roster of freshman - 29 out of 65.

Carolina just sucks and will need time to rebuild under Davis.

Miami has one of the best freshman classes in a decade. But they are still FRESHMEN.

Miami and NC State started freshmen quarterbacks on Thursday. One of them got knocked out.

None of these schools have a veteran offensive line or system pegged down.

Anyone who thinks they can legitimately grade a football coach based on TWO seasons in a volatile program obviously knows nothing about football. Like the Larry Coker hype machine. Like how Amato was going to take NC State to the Promise Land in 2001. And when Auburn fans wanted to shit-can Tuberville in 2000. By 1990 Virginia Tech fans wanted Frank Beamer gone and were clamoring for Bill Dooley to return.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 2:19 PM. Reason : sp]

8/31/2008 2:17:57 PM

Quote :

"Carolina has never had a commitment to football "

Did you have access to a TV from 1988-1990, and then watch what UNC football did from 91-97?

Quote :

"We took about 65 players to Columbia, 29 of which were freshman. It's hard to compete with that kind of attrition and youth right out of the gate."

Didn't Herbie say that Bama had 31 true or RS freshman playing against Clemson last night? Not only that, they Have JP Wilson at QB, this guy isn't even a Krenzel or Dorsey, you know, get it to the playmakers and don't throw picks. So Bama played 31 youngsters with a marginal QB and destroyed Clemson, why, because of the trenches, both lines dominated CU.

Quote :

"And when Auburn fans wanted to shit-can Tuberville in 2000"

I think I read somewhere that Tub's is 13-3 on the road the last 4 season's in the SEC, that's just nasty if you think about it.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2008 2:23:01 PM

This SI article pretty much says it..."wannabe superconference"

Quote :

"Another year, another glorious start for the nation's wannabe superconference. It began Thursday night with N.C. State's nationally televised 34-0 shellacking at the hands of South Carolina and continued Saturday with Virginia Tech (11-3 a year ago) falling to East Carolina, Virginia (9-4) losing 52-7 at home to USC and of course league favorite Clemson laying a colossal egg against Alabama in front of a national, prime-time audience. However, the biggest blunder in ACC country Saturday took place in the sky. A pair of parachuters who were slated to deliver the game ball for North Carolina's opener against McNeese State inadvertently landed eight miles away -- at Duke's stadium. "In about five years," said concerned UNC associate AD Rick Steinbacher, "maybe this will be funny." "

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason : cc]

8/31/2008 4:25:04 PM

Haha... the parachuters landed at Duke. That's priceless.

8/31/2008 4:40:30 PM

Quote :

"Did you have access to a TV from 1988-1990, and then watch what UNC football did from 91-97?"

Ah yes, all those ACC and national championships, BCS/tier 1 bowl games, and the way they were able to sign Mack Brown to a lifetime contract, it is something to be envied, especially how football became the #1 sport in Chapel Hill, and Roy Williams makes half of what the football coach makes.

Oh, wait...

Quote :

"Didn't Herbie say that Bama had 31 true or RS freshman playing against Clemson last night? Not only that, they Have JP Wilson at QB, this guy isn't even a Krenzel or Dorsey, you know, get it to the playmakers and don't throw picks. So Bama played 31 youngsters with a marginal QB and destroyed Clemson, why, because of the trenches, both lines dominated CU."

Are you seriously comparing O'Brien's 1st 2 recruiting classes to Alabama's? Just last year, they had the #3 class overall, landing 7 of ESPN's top 150 players. In comparison, we finished a respectable 20th with 2 top 150 classes (and how many of those didn't even set foot on campus to begin with?)...and their class was ranked 10th in nation in 2007. So that's hardly a fair comparison of talent between Alabama and NC State.

And FYI, I'd take Alabama's marginal QB over Evans and his pop warner arm everyday of the week.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 5:24 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2008 5:23:44 PM

and their OLINEEEEEEEEEeeee

8/31/2008 6:23:49 PM

Quote :

"College Football's Five Worst Moments of Week One 1. ACC Football Like any good dead horse, the ACC's utter failure in the first weekend of 2008 will be beaten mercifully into the ground via countless Sportscenter replies and verbal thaththayings between Lou Holtz and Mark May, so let's go ahead and get it out of the way -- the Atlantic Coast Conference = FAIL. Virginia Tech lost to East Carolina, Clemson was flat out embarrassed, NC State didn't score on national television, North Carolina and Maryland beat McNeese St. and Delaware by a combined 14 points and Virginia got rooster-slapped by USC at home. Boston College, Miami (FL), Georgia Tech, Duke and Florida State were the only non-embarrassments of the weekend, and the Seminoles didn't even play. And if you think that will last, well, you're crazy. I feel like I've mentioned this 40 times between Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning, but we might legitimately be headed for a Wake Forest (the only legit top 25 team in the conference, perhaps?) - North Carolina Championship Game. And that's a scary thought indeed. "

Quote :

"Sunday Hangover: ACC Football, Point, Laugh, Repeat as Needed Take a number, Hurricane Gustav, no one does disaster like the ACC. How awful was the weekend for whatever small amount of credibility ACC football may have owned? New Coke is laughing at the ACC while wearing parachute pants and drinking with Captain Hazelwood in Mike Dukakis' tank. Memo to the league: Maybe you should've just spent your Labor Day weekend with your fuzzy slippers on while parked in front of the "Crossing Jordan" marathon. Football may, in fact, not be your thing. If you weren't too drunk, sadistic or lazy to find the remote this weekend, you might've missed what was a nationally televised debacle so embarrassing Miss Teen South Carolina felt bad for the ACC. On Thursday night, South Carolina routed N.C. State in a game in which both teams tried their best to lose but even screwed that up. Saturday, Virginia Tech lost to East Carolina, Southern Cal did this to Virginia and Alabama did its best impression of a Beijing police officer meeting a human rights protester against Clemson. Even Bobby Bowden, whose Florida State team put in the league's best effort by skillfully navigating the bye week, coughed up his all-time wins lead to the chronologically bountiful Joe Paterno. Most college football teams give out helmet stickers after games. By the end of the night in the ACC, we're fairly certain punch and pizza were served by a team member's parent. How sad was it in the ACC, where the league went 7-4 despite picking up five wins against FCS teams? The weeks' biggest winners were Duke and Wake Forest, which would be great if football were played with buzzers, with questions about Djibouti, and by men with the fashion sense and general build of Tucker Carlson. Only the Deacons and Boston College, which laid low mighty Kent, managed to beat an FBS opponent. And pinning your football glory on Wake Forest is like hoping that a role on the CW is going to make your acting career, or like getting stuck with Joe Kines in fantasy karaoke. Nothing, of course, was more humbling than Clemson doing its tribute to the housing market in shoulder pads on national television. The presumptive league champion walked into a buzzsaw against presumptive SEC mid-packer Alabama, which should be a little like losing in a sing-off to Tito Jackson. The only saving grace for the ACC might've been that the primetime embarrassment lasted so long that by the time it was all over, most of America was asleep, drunk or occupied with more exciting things, like atom counting or sock maintenance. By the second quarter, the Sunday Hangover definitely needed a nap (which we suppose is exactly what it feels like to be Paterno). But the ACC's collapse isn't just one weekend of terror, like, say a recruiting visit by Ed Orgeron. It's a long, slow descent into football forgetability, like the single wing offense ... or Notre Dame. How far has the ACC's slide gone? Roger Clemens' credibility waved hi on the way down. The last time the league won a BCS bowl (when Florida State beat future ACC January floppers Virginia Tech), Bill Clinton was still in office, current vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin was fighting moose as the mayor of a town of 5,000, and Nick Lachey was just an awful, if well accessorized, twinkle in ESPN's eye. It's not that the ACC hasn't had talent. In the past four years, the league has produced 151 NFL Draft picks, including 30 first-rounders, numbers almost identical to the SEC, which has produced 150 picks and 31 first-rounders. Essentially, the ACC has managed the football equivalent of combining Al Pacino, James Caan and Marlon Brando in a Francis Ford Coppola film and somehow winding up with "White Chicks" instead of "The Godfather." What's the problem? The collapse of powers Florida State and Miami and the moderate downturn of Virginia Tech has exposed the ACC's heap of also-rans. And the conference doesn't have the depth of talent that the SEC has. While the SEC and ACC have both produced similar numbers of elite players into the NFL Draft, the SEC has far out-recruited the South's not-ready-for-primetime league. In the past four seasons, the ACC has had 18 top-25 ranked recruiting classes while the SEC has registered 28. So when Jamarcus Russell leaves LSU early, Matt Flynn can capably manage the Tigers to the national title. But at Virginia Tech, signal calling now belongs to Sean Glennon, who was once knocked over by a East Carolina player who simply gave Glennon the evil eye. Of course, over that same time period East Carolina has yet to register a top-25 recruiting class, so there's more to the ACC's current salute to Freddie Mac stock than just talent. But here's what we know. The ACC might've made the wrong choice this weekend, but as far as the Sunday Hangover is concerned, if ACC football is on the television, we will be wondering just who will foolishly Cross Jordan next. Pass the slippers, please."

ouch



[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 10:05 PM. Reason : f]

8/31/2008 9:58:13 PM

Quote :

"There were some bad numbers and some bad moments over the course of the first weekend, but few units were as inept as the NC State passing game against South Carolina in the 34-0 Thursday night loss. Before getting knocked out with a concussion, Russell Wilson completed just one of five passes for 12 yards. Daniel Evans completed four of 12 passes for 37 yards and two interceptions, and Harrison Beck missed all three of his throws. William & Mary is next."

9/1/2008 3:30:22 AM

^^Christ, that article has WAAAAAYYYY too many pop-culture references weaved in to the story. to the point that it's painful to read. i feel like i need a lifetime subscription to US weekly or tv digest just to understand half the points he's trying to make.

but yeah, the acc sucks this year.

[Edited on September 1, 2008 at 4:20 AM. Reason : ]

9/1/2008 4:16:19 AM

ESPN is about to highlight the stadium skydive mishap

9/1/2008 8:34:15 AM

I, for one, don't give a shit about the ACC's ineptitude in football. I don't think the conference should try to be something it's not. Plus, I'd rather watch SEC teams run things anyways and put people in their place. *cough*OSU*cough
Not that I don't mind State having above average success from time to time, but emphasis in the ACC should always be basketball.

9/1/2008 10:26:31 AM

Quote :

"Ah yes, all those ACC and national championships, BCS/tier 1 bowl games, and the way they were able to sign Mack Brown to a lifetime contract, it is something to be envied, especially how football became the #1 sport in Chapel Hill, and Roy Williams makes half of what the football coach makes."

I hate stating something that makes UNC look good, but you're the posterboy for why the entire conference thinks our fans are delusional. If all teams thought about were BCS bowls as the measuring stick, then 109 (5 BCS bowls?) of the 119 teams are going to have an unsuccessful season. UNC lost 3 games in a two year stretch in 96 and 97, this was back when FSU was a mini NFL team, so being second to them would be fine with me. I'd take being ranked 4th in the polls any day of the week at the END of the year. Roy Williams has it in his contract that he is the highest paid coach (base salary) at UNC, so what's good for Butch, is good for ol Roy, Butch has no bigger cheerleader than Roy. Now I have no idea what Butch has on the side with marketing, but it's hard to believe he's bigger than Roy $$$ wise.

Quote :

"Are you seriously comparing O'Brien's 1st 2 recruiting classes to Alabama's?"

Nope, just stating that Alabama has the same youth issues as everyone else crying about it, of course their recruits are better.

Quote :

"And FYI, I'd take Alabama's marginal QB over Evans and his pop warner arm everyday of the week."

well I think everyone would, I was just pointing out that he is not an elite QB, they play lots of freshmen, and waxed Clemson, I was trying to emphasize the OL

9/1/2008 12:07:54 PM

Quote :

"Nope, just stating that Alabama has the same youth issues as everyone else crying about it, of course their recruits are better."

True. Alabama's cupboard was dry when Nick Satan took over for Shula, BUT not nearly as messed up as the undisciplined one Amato left at NC State. Bama has a fairly seasoned quarterback (Wilson is not that bad) and an OFFENSIVE LINE. Not to mention, Alabama is Alabama and NC State is... well... NC State. You gotta be on the Kool-Aid to think that NC State's recruiting classes and recruiting potential have been on par with Bama. But that doesn't mean NC State can't be as competitive once Tom O'Brien gets the type of players he needs for his system. In the meantime, I'm gonna keep my expectations in check for another few years. The Dick Sheridan days will returned eventually.

Miami will get murdered next week in Gainesville (losing to UF for the first time in 25 years) and their young players will get a Baptism by Fire in the Swamp... and the media will rabble about how its the end of the Miami glory days. But I have been VERY impressed by their cohesion and discipline, even against lowly Charleston Southern. Miami will be a juggernaut in a few years once Sean Spence, Jacory Harris, Arthur Brown, and Marcus Forston get a year or two of collegiate experience and grow. Those guys are unbelievable athletes.

Georgia Tech will be a tough opponent once Paul Johson gets his system nailed down. Duke will win a few games here and there. UNC will be better but not as good as their fans think. Virginia Tech needs a quarterback and some speed and they will get better. I don't know enough about Wake's situation and how much longer Grobe will stay.

FSU will fall deeper into acrimony and defeat and more NCAA probes. They are done. Virginia just flat-out sucks from what I witnessed yesterday. Clemson is stuck in neutral and in hyped up dream world. Maryland will always be mediocre as long as the fat man is there.

9/1/2008 1:21:58 PM

Quote :

" ATLANTA – Like the broken-hearted guy stuck with a tattoo bearing an ex-girlfriend's name, Clemson can't rid itself of the underachiever label. No matter how many times the Tigers ready to change their reputation, they inevitably revert to form at the worst possible moment. It happened again Saturday night. "We did want to come here and prove the doubters wrong," Clemson quarterback Cullen Harper said late Saturday night after a 34-10 loss to Alabama at the Georgia Dome. "We wanted to earn their respect that we don't feel like we're getting. Maybe we don't deserve it." That might be an understatement. Clemson responded to its highest preseason ranking since 1991 – No. 9 – by proving once again that it handles prosperity about as well as Richard Hatch, the guy who parlayed the first million-dollar jackpot on "Survivor" into a tax-evasion conviction. The Tigers trailed 13-0 by the time they picked up their initial first down. They finished with zero net rushing yards on 14 carries. Their offense didn't reach the end zone all night. They allowed Alabama to hold the ball for more than two-thirds of the game. "We got whipped about any way you can get whipped," said Clemson coach Tommy Bowden, who called it the worst physical beating his team had absorbed in the past three years. Skeptics might argue that the only surprise about the Tigers' collapse is that it happened so early in the season, yet Clemson still could live up to its lofty preseason expectations. While this game knocked Clemson out of realistic national-title contention before Labor Day, the Tigers were only viewed as fringe challengers to play for the national championship anyway. The more realistic goal involved Clemson's quest to win the ACC. Recent history shows that an embarrassing early season loss to an SEC school doesn't knock a team out of ACC title contention. "Virginia Tech played LSU last year … and they lost pretty bad," tailback James Davis said, referring to the Hokies' 48-7 setback. "And they still fought back and they were able to go to the ACC Championship Game and also the BCS. We're in that situation right now. We've got to be able to fight back." Tommy Bowden took the blame for not having his team ready to play. Clemson didn't show much fight in its opener. Then again, neither did the rest of the ACC. Virginia Tech opened its ACC title defense by losing to Conference USA member East Carolina. Virginia fell 52-7 to USC. Maryland and North Carolina struggled to beat Division I-AA programs Delaware and McNeese State. The ACC's dismal showing Saturday came two days after N.C. State opened the season with a 34-0 loss to South Carolina. The SEC won its two head-to-head matchups with the ACC by a combined 68-10, which made Harper's postgame comparison of the leagues all the more puzzling. "I think the ACC is just as good as the SEC," Harper said. "I think we didn't have a good showing tonight, but I think the two conferences are very equal." Anyone who watched the Alabama-Clemson drubbing or the South Carolina-North Carolina State blowout would have a tough time keeping a straight face while hearing that comment. Then again, the Tigers have a unique perspective on the strength of the ACC. After all, they haven't won a league championship since 1991. That drought has led to all kinds of speculation about Clemson's mental toughness. Before this week, the last time Clemson entered the top 10 in the national rankings came two years ago after a nationally televised 31-7 shellacking of Georgia Tech. The Tigers promptly lost four of their last five games to finish 8-5. Last season, Clemson only needed to win a home game against Boston College to reach the ACC Championship Game for the first time. The Tigers gave up a 43-yard touchdown pass with 1:46 remaining, dropped a potential touchdown pass in the final minute and missed a field goal as time expired in a 20-17 loss. This time, Clemson didn't have to worry about coming up short in the final minute. The Tigers let the game get out of hand long before then. Clemson already trailed 3-0 when Harper underthrew a wide-open Aaron Kelly down the left sideline on the Tigers' first play from scrimmage, turning a potential long gain into a near-interception. The Tigers attempted their first run from scrimmage on the next play, but the carry didn't go to either Davis or C.J. Spiller, who comprise arguably the nation's top tailback tandem. The ball instead went to true freshman Jamie Harper, who fumbled at Clemson's 31 to set up Leigh Tiffin's second field goal of the night. C.J. Spiller and James Davis looked formidable before the game, but they combined for 20 yards on eight carries. Clemson never recovered. "The responsibility of getting a team prepared is mine," Bowden said. "As I told the team, I didn't get them prepared. That's my job and responsibility. I'll find a solution to the problem. … This is one game out of 12. We've got a long way to go. I've got to start with myself and work down." Bowden acknowleged Sunday that he promised the first carry of the season to Harper while recruiting the former four-star prospect from Jacksonville (Fla.) Trinity Christian. Bowden didn't regret the decision and noted he made similar types of promises to Davis, Spiller and former Clemson receivers Justin Miller and Roscoe Crosby while recruiting them. Clemson's soft early season schedule should give the Tigers plenty of time to recover from their Saturday night debacle. Clemson stays home for its next four games, including visits from Division I-AA programs The Citadel and South Carolina State. In the meantime, Bowden has plenty of questions to ask himself. How does a team with two of the nation's top tailbacks gain zero rushing yards? Why did Spiller carry the ball just twice? Why did Kelly finish with only 28 receiving yards? Is Clemson's inexperienced offensive line as bad as it looked against Alabama? Better yet, how can his team recover from such a brutal season-opening setback? "We have to look at ourselves in the mirror," Kelly said. "Obviously we've got to work harder and we've got to make more plays because when the pressure's on, we didn't make the plays we needed to make." Kelly's last comment has become an all-too-familiar refrain at Clemson. He can only hope it doesn't serve as the epitaph for one more season that didn't quite live up to expectations. "

9/1/2008 1:24:11 PM

Quote :

"I hate stating something that makes UNC look good, but you're the posterboy for why the entire conference thinks our fans are delusional. If all teams thought about were BCS bowls as the measuring stick, then 109 (5 BCS bowls?) of the 119 teams are going to have an unsuccessful season. UNC lost 3 games in a two year stretch in 96 and 97, this was back when FSU was a mini NFL team, so being second to them would be fine with me. I'd take being ranked 4th in the polls any day of the week at the END of the year. Roy Williams has it in his contract that he is the highest paid coach (base salary) at UNC, so what's good for Butch, is good for ol Roy, Butch has no bigger cheerleader than Roy. Now I have no idea what Butch has on the side with marketing, but it's hard to believe he's bigger than Roy $$$ wise."

How many ranked teams did carolina beat in those 2 years? They beat an unranked VT team in the Gator Bowl as their highlight, and yes they were 4th, but guess what, they were so disrespected b/c of their weak ass schedule that they were not given a Tier I bowl slot. Mack Brown realized that he reached a ceiling in chapel hill and bolted for the 1st real opportunity that came along.

They had a good run for a middle of the pack BCS school, no question. But that doesn't mean that they've had a serious commitment to football, and furthermore, calling me a posterboy for being delusional for stating the obvious pretty much sums up the segment of our fanbase that should quite frankly go root for somebody else. Heaven forbid that State actually compete, let alone try.

9/1/2008 2:43:48 PM

9/1/2008 6:40:31 PM

God has officially wiped his ass w/ the ACC and you know why?


it's because Hansbrough made a deal with the devil.

9/1/2008 9:31:19 PM

Hasn't the ACC always sucked? What's different this year?

9/1/2008 9:31:47 PM

I made this thread last year and people tried arguing with me for three pages that the ACC was sick.

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=495293

9/2/2008 2:01:42 AM

and this was your brilliant solution?

Quote :

"I think the ACC should seriously consider suspending the football programs for one year until they can put a better product on the field"

9/2/2008 2:03:54 AM

Its pretty sad that a message board full of NC State grads/students can't recognize hyperbole.

The Wolfweb: Devaluing NC State degrees one post at a time.

9/2/2008 2:24:57 AM

acc football is a golden god

9/2/2008 2:32:00 AM

last year's thread was spot on

9/2/2008 2:38:08 AM

It is easily the Coaches!!!

SEC
Spurrier
Meyer
Saban
Petrino
Tuberville
Miles
Richt
Fulmer
Nutt
Croom
Brooks
Bobby Johnson (vandy coach)

compared to the:

ACC
Bowden
Bowden
O'Brien
Davis
Shannon
Cutcliffe
Grobe
Groh
Beamer
Fridgerator
Johnson
Jagodzinski




They have 5 Coaches with National Championships, we have 1 and he might not even be around after next season

9/2/2008 9:32:34 AM

Got bored at work... here's what i came up with after taking a brief look at where the ACC is heading, team for team. I discovered each school falls in one of four categories.

Good but not great - Clemson, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Clemson and VT appear to have the players, the coaching staff, and fan support needed to win it all... BUT neither has managed to win a BCS bowl. Clemson hasn't even been to one. Even Wake made an appearance.

Wake is the loan overachiever in the ACC, but unfortunately Jim Grobe is swimming against the current. The odds of creating a sustainable powerhouse in Winston-Salem are long indeed.

Stagnated in mediocrity - Virginia, Maryland

Ralph Friedgen looked unstoppable in his first three years at Maryland. Al Groh was hand-picked by Bill Parcells to run the Jets. Pardon my french, but what the hell happened to these guys? These programs have been mired in mediocrity for the past several years, even with powerhouses like Miami and FSU falling flat. A similar situation was brewing in Atlanta... that is until Chan Gailey finally got axed at Georgia Tech in favor of up-and-coming Paul Johnson. Virginia and Maryland should seriously consider following suit. It's clear Groh and Friedgen's programs are going nowhere fast.

Mediocre, future uncertain - Georgia Tech, Miami, BC, FSU

Two former superpowers and two middle-of-the-road programs... each with an uncertain future. Miami and FSU both continue to bring in talent, but it hasn't translated into wins. Miami may bounce back first with new coach, while FSU will likely stumble along until Paterno and Bowden's "Race to the Finish" reaches a conclusion. At this point Bowden's probably planning to be buried on the 50 yard-line at Doak Stadium. Not for sentimental reasons mind you, but b/c he'll probably be calling plays on gameday when his time is finally up...

On the other hand, BC and Tech are both transitioning with new programs, but unlike the Tobacco Road schools, these programs are coming off winning seasons. It's not clear how much credit Jagazinski deserves for last year's 10-win season, and Paul Johnson's skill at adapting to a team's skills will FINALLY be put to the test at the Division 1A level. Both coaches face stiffer than usual academic standards, but there's room for optimism in either case.

Terrible, but improving - NCSU, UNC, Duke

As bad as these three are, they are definitely improving. State has no offense, UNC has a bad defense, and Duke... well they've already met their quota for wins this year. Still, it's very clear that the coaches at these schools are better than their respective teams... not to mention records. Hopefully one or more of these coaches will be around long enough to build a solid program, though in Duke's case "solid" would equate to "potential winning seasons."


And of course... the unnofficial 5th category:

Perennial Winners - NONE

Yeah, everbody's down... for the moment anyway. The immediate future doesn't look much better either. Top to bottom the ACC teams range from "good, but underachieving" to "desperately needing a complete overhaul."

So where will the ACC find it's next flag-ship program? Who the heck knows... but here's the candidates:

Most Likely - Clemson, VTech

They have the tools, so the Law of Averages suggests that one of these two will break through sooner rather than later.

Wait 3 years and get back to me - NCSU, UNC, GTech, Miami

A quartet of new coaches, two of which are proven winners in Division 1A, another turned around Navy, and the 4th is bringing in a truckload of talent on a former powerhouse. The Law of Averages again suggests one or more of these teams will take the next step and challenge for ACC championships within a few years.

Don't hold your breath - Wake, BC, Maryland, FSU, Virginia

Wake, for all it's recent glory, simply isn't ever going to be the flagship program of the conference. The fanbase, geographic location, and academic standards doom them from the start. BC is overshadowed by, well, everything in Boston AND suffers from the same problems as Wake Forest. Maryland and Virginia need a coahcing shake-up, b/c it's clear the status quo isn't cutting it.

Um... No - Duke

Cutcliffe is a nice guy. Hopefully he'll pull a Spurrier and use this job as a resume' stuffer...

[Edited on September 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM. Reason : d]

9/2/2008 5:54:18 PM

grossly underestimating FSU





ah shit, motherfucker said "grossly"

[Edited on September 2, 2008 at 6:04 PM. Reason : d]

9/2/2008 5:58:38 PM

Quote :

"Good but not great - Clemson, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest"

Virginia Tech is not a good football team

Quote :

"Terrible, but improving - NCSU, UNC, Duke"

We've improved?

[Edited on September 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/2/2008 6:11:54 PM

If you compare the last two games, then definitely.

0-34 on the road vs. SEC>>>>>>>0-37 at home vs. ACC

9/2/2008 6:14:48 PM

2006 - 3-9
2007 - 5-7

That's improvement technically.

9/2/2008 6:27:10 PM

Yeah, technically

I don't see us improving on 5-7 this year, though

9/2/2008 6:58:50 PM

Quote :

"0-34 on the road vs. SEC>>>>>>>0-37 at home vs. ACC"

9/2/2008 7:26:29 PM

Quote :

"grossly underestimating FSU"

True, but I'll need to see some wins to confirm it. No way FSU earns the benefit of the doubt given their track record in the past few years.

Quote :

"Virginia Tech is not a good football team"

At the moment, no, but the program is worse this year due to graduating players... NOT b/c the program itself has issues...

Quote :

"We've improved?"

ImprovING, not improvED. It'll be another year before the progress translates into wins, given the tools TOB has to work with on offense. The D is solid, albeit inexperienced, and it proved it by shutting down the Gamecocks through 3 quarters... even it finally yielded three straight TDs at the end of the game.

9/2/2008 11:41:01 PM

Coaching only goes so far...and I think if you want to talk about coaching that really makes a difference I think you need to look deeper, specifically at assistant coaches, coordinators, and even to the strength and conditioning coaches.

But honestly, why would you choose to go to an ACC school over an SEC school?
1. Playing time (meaing there is already someone better than you there)
2. Happen to grow up loving a particular team
3. ?

All of the ACC games I watched this weekend...ACC teams just seem fragile to me.

9/3/2008 3:08:15 AM

Well ACC schools usually have better academics, and most players aren't going to make the NFL or make a long career out of football. Also a number of the SEC schools are more redneck than the ACC schools. If it comes down to Arkansas vs. VT, I'd go to VT. Ole Miss vs. UNC, I'd go to UNC. Mississippi State vs. NC State, I'd go to NC State.

You've got to think about everything when considering schools.

Things the ACC schools generally have over the SEC schools:
1. Academics
2. Less redneck
3. Location (seriously what kind of people, outside of the people from those states, want to spend their college years in Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi. based on my travels the people from places like NoVa/DC/Maryland, the Triangle, Tallahassee, Boston, Miami, and Atlanta are more sophisticated, and overall their is more to do in those areas.)
4. Atmosphere (from the standpoint of a player not wanting to be in a culture where if he drops a TD pass he ends up getting hate mail and death threats, which has happened at SEC schools)

9/3/2008 8:53:16 AM

^
1) football players dont care about academics
2) Less Redneck? depends on if you are a country lineman or city skill player
3) Location? have you ever been to Oxford or Auburn or Knoxville?? Those places are some of the best places I have ever been for college football
4) ATMOSPHERE????? That culture is what a real football player dreams of, I have been all around the country to college football games and nothing, i mean NOTHING, comes close to SEC football

I was raised in the ACC but we dont really have anything on the SEC when it comes to College Football

9/3/2008 9:02:52 AM

Quote :

"They have 5 Coaches with National Championships, we have 1 and he might not even be around after next season"

Shannon has a national championship.... just not as a head coach

9/3/2008 9:34:59 AM

1. Many football players care about academics. How do you explain State losing prospects to Duke? Or Jheranie Boyd talking about UNC being appealing b/c of their communications program and them having Stuart Scott as an alum.
2. Not all linemen are from the country. R.J. Mattes and Andrew Wallace are both from the Charlotte area. Same goes for skill players not always being from the city. And yes most SEC schools are more redneck than their ACC counterparts. If you are a black male why would you want to go to a school with a bunch of redneck racist crackers (obviously not all rednecks are racists, but the majority are).
3. I've been to Knoxville plenty of times and I love it. Did you even read my post though? There is a ton more things to do in Boston, Atlanta, Miami, the Triangle, NoVa/DC/Maryland areas than there are in Oxford, Tuscaloosa, Starkville, and Auburn. As a player you will be on your home field in front of a sellout crowd only 6-8 times every year for 4-5 years. That leaves a lot of time for you to be doing other things on the weekend. Most people would rather be in a place that is close to plenty of things to do.
4. Of course the atmosphere in the SEC is the best overall, but if you think South Carolina has a better atmosphere than Clemson you are sadly mistaken. So for a player if it comes down to choosing South Carolina or Clemson it seems like if it was just based on atmosphere the obvious choice for a lot of players would be Clemson. Some players do like more laid back atmospheres at least when it comes to how crazy the fans are. It doesn't mean they aren't real football players. You can still have a passionate fanbase without overstepping the boundaries of deceny. A college kid shouldn't have to deal with getting hate mail from middle aged men that have their life completely revolve around watching 18-22 year olds playing football games.

9/3/2008 9:35:34 AM

Quote :

"2) Less Redneck? depends on if you are a country lineman or city skill player"

Quote :

"2. Not all linemen are from the country. R.J. Mattes and Andrew Wallace are both from the Charlotte area"

Me thinks Charlotte isn't the best city to use for this argument...

9/3/2008 10:14:34 AM

Quote :

"Coaching only goes so far..."

Except that you are wrong, coaching is everything in college football, because coaching includes recruiting, includes hiring your assistants and coordinators, includes kissing donor ass so they give more money. It includes keeping the kids eligible to play, and not getting arrested(if possible).

You don't know shit about college sports if you think that.

9/3/2008 10:19:23 AM

Concord /= Charlotte

9/3/2008 10:37:15 AM

^^^
Sonoma = cali
Watkins glen =ny
new hampshire = new hampshire
Milwaukee=WI
michigan = michigan
Las vegas = neveda
kansas city = kansas
Indy= Indiana
chicagoland = IL
fontana = cali
texas = texas
pocono= etc. etc. need I go on?

nascar is no longer based in one location, so basically you are full of shit. This means all areas are redneck now

9/3/2008 10:57:45 AM

^ lol. Dude, Charlotte is known for 2 things ... banks and nascar. Naming a list of "more sophisticated" cities that have nascar events doesn't change that fact. I've been to Las Vegas, Kansas City, Indianapolis, and Chicago (I'm guessing chicagoland is in/near Chicago) and I never saw/heard shit about nascar in those cities. You spend a few days in Concord/Charlotte and you'll know you're in Nascar country.

[Edited on September 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM. Reason : hell, you're from there. Unless you spent your entire life downtown you know this!]

9/3/2008 11:08:44 AM

Quote :

"So for a player if it comes down to choosing South Carolina or Clemson it seems like if it was just based on atmosphere the obvious choice for a lot of players would be Clemson."

If it is just based on atmosphere- he will pick Gamecocks

because if he is going for atmosphere he is going for those SEC games, especially night games

would you rather go to a saturday night Miami at Clemson

or a saturday night Florida at South Carolina????



THERE IS NO COINCIDENCE THE SEC IS THE BEST CONFERENCE AND THEY HAVE STOCKPILED THE BEST COACHES!

9/3/2008 11:31:45 AM