“No Man’s life liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session” - Mark Twain

10/3/2008 11:41:46 AM

Quote :

"Those countries are below us so not even up for debate. We're talking about mainly iceland norway ireland sweden switzerland mainly northern europe, hell even canada can be used. France Uk and Spain are basically on our level."

The only one of those places that is truly energy independent is Norway, and it's because their politicians don't oppose off-shore drilling like our democrats do. Denmark is close, but they still rely on imports for fuel.

Switzerland is a mostly capitalist country. It's been sliding towards socialism for a while I guess, but still isn't any more socialist than the US is. Besides, it got all its wealth from Nazi Gold, that can't be claimed by dead Jews.

Ireland is indeed a great place, and much better than they were a decada ago. Lets look how they got there, shall we?

Quote :

"By the 1980s, underlying economic problems became pronounced. High unemployment, emigration, growing public debt returned. Middle income workers were taxed 60% of their marginal income.[16] Unemployment was 20%. Annual emigration to overseas reached over 1% of population. Public deficits reached 15% of GDP. Fianna Fáil was elected in 1987 and surprised everyone by announcing a swing toward small government. Public spending was reduced quickly and taxes cut. Ireland promoted competition in all areas. For instance, Ryanair utilized Ireland's deregulated aviation market and helped European regulators to see benefits of competition in transport markets. The more competitive economy attracted foreign investment quickly. Intel invested in 1989 and was followed by hordes of technology companies such as Microsoft and Google, who have found Ireland an excellent investment location. All government parties have had a consensus about the economic development.[15] In less than a decade, the GDP per capita ranking rose from 21st in 1993 to 4th in 2002.[17] Between 1985 and 2002, private sector jobs increased 59% compared to -1% in Sweden.[5] Between 1984 and 2002, GDP per capita increased 111% compared to 36% in Sweden."

Iceland is one of the smallest populations in the world, with fewer people than the least populous US state. it has virtually no resources other than fish, and nobody cares about it. It doesn't even have to have a real military because nobody cares enough to fight it.

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2008 12:04:31 PM

Ireland still has considerably more economic equality than we do.

10/3/2008 12:09:41 PM

Up until a year or two ago if you were directed related to an Irish citizen you could apply for Irish citizenship. My grandfather was born in Ireland so all my aunts and uncles on my dad's side applied for Irish citizenship and got it.

I felt left out

10/3/2008 1:05:28 PM

^ You actually arent left out. Ireland allows persons to get citizenship if one of their grandparents was born in Ireland. Basically you'll likely follow the same procedure as your aunts and uncles and have your birth listed on the foreign births register.

Quote :

"Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparents If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register. If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation. "

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent

10/3/2008 2:55:40 PM

Oh snap! Thanks man thats awesome. I'm gonna get on that.

This way in the future if I travel abroad and everyone is hating on Americans I can just pull out my Irish Passport (also come in handy if hijacked by terrorists)

10/3/2008 4:00:22 PM

America doesn't allow dual citizenship. you basically have to give up your american citizenship, at least that is my understanding.

10/3/2008 4:03:49 PM

^ True, but a lot of people leep dual citizneships, with one being American. I personally know a few people like that. Heck, some of them have [two] citizenships neither of which allows dual citizenship!

10/3/2008 6:00:32 PM

^^I'm pretty sure its allowed. Like I said numerous relatives of mine have it.

10/3/2008 6:14:05 PM

best countries to live in on earth

USA #1

cause we got the Wendy's Baconator!

10/3/2008 6:17:18 PM

Quote :

"Just look at the difference in violent crime between DC and Luxembourg or Qatar. We're doing something wrong. (And for the record, I'm making nothing at the moment. I could be earning seven or eight bucks an hour if I really needed to. I can hardly imagine getting thirty grand a year.) "

well there's one pretty key difference

10/5/2008 7:37:17 PM

poverty? education? broken family structure?

OH

YOU MEAN BLACK PEOPLE

[Edited on October 5, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : /]

10/5/2008 8:25:29 PM

russians?

10/5/2008 9:09:36 PM

russians?

brazilians?

10/5/2008 9:10:41 PM

Quote :

"America doesn't allow dual citizenship. you basically have to give up your american citizenship, at least that is my understanding."

Its somehow frowned upon, but its perfectly legal. My gf has Swiss and US citizenship. Also a friend of mine here has Australian and US citizenship.

10/5/2008 10:02:08 PM

^ From my understanding, there's no official status of "dual citizenship" and you're suppose to renounce other citizenships to be an American citizen, but considering there's no way to check this, and no formal procedure for renouncing foreign citizenships, a foreigner could easily keep their foreign citizenship while having an American citizenship.

10/5/2008 10:07:02 PM

Quote :

"no formal procedure for renouncing foreign citizenships"

there has to be considering when you enter into the armed services with multiple citizenships, you have to renounce all but the american one

10/5/2008 10:27:16 PM

Normally you're supposed to renounce your American citizenship, but a lot of people keep their dual citizenship regardless. The only disadvantage is that if you get in trouble in your other nation of citizenship, the United States won't be able to do anything for you since you're technically a citizen of that nation.

10/5/2008 10:45:20 PM

^ http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

I don't think so. I think it's a matter of saying "hey, yeah, i'm not a citizen of that country"

There is a form to renounce American citizenship, but I don't know why you'd do that unless you're trying to spit in the face of America.

10/5/2008 10:47:54 PM

Is it possible to be a citizen of no-nation?

10/5/2008 11:11:52 PM

Of course

10/5/2008 11:13:12 PM

Geography of Bliss is a neat book that talks about the happiest/unhappiest places in the world and why they are so.


It doesn't cover all of the countries on that list but Iceland, Switzerland, and in particular one city in North Carolina are represented.

Definitely worth a read if you're interested in this sort of stuff.

10/6/2008 8:02:51 AM

^ Talking about happiness, isn't it true that Scandinavian countries have some of the highest suicide rates in the world?

And according to some survey, Bhutan is the happiest country in the world. I saw a program on BBC about that.

10/6/2008 9:13:06 AM

^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

They're high, but not the highest. They drink a lot and don't get a lot of sun. But I think it's more complex than that...like, while they're all pretty high, Finland is crazy high...what's going on in Finland?

10/6/2008 9:47:10 AM

^^Bhutan is one of the places featured in the book, especially the concept of "Gross National Happiness."

The way I understand it, the ruler declared that everyone was going to be happy, whether they liked it or not.

It's a bit more complicated than that, obviously, but I'm not a political writer.

10/6/2008 1:15:07 PM

I wouldn't bet on iceland being on that list much longer.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4894904.ece

10/7/2008 4:05:03 PM

Quote :

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate"

LOL. I'm sure no one commits suicide in Haiti.

10/7/2008 7:33:29 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7660511.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7662027.stm

Iceland is completely melting down, and it isn't global warming.

So much for the best place to live.

10/10/2008 1:56:03 AM

^i think everybody is doing so much better though.

10/10/2008 3:35:58 AM

Quote :

"Grumpy, then you must know something that the individuals making the Economic Freedom Index must not know, since they take that into account when designing rankings."

Apparently you were operating under the misapprehension that I give two shits about "economic freedom" in a thread entitled "best countries to live in." My point was that economic freedom =/= good place to live. I dunno, maybe we have different priorities, but I'd rather live in America, with its slightly lower economic freedom, than in a corporate police state with great economic freedom. This is because, among other things, I don't relish the thought of being brutally caned for every offense under the sun.

10/10/2008 5:02:43 AM

Quote :

"1 ? (1) Iceland ? 0.968 2 ? (1) Norway ? 0.968 3 ? (0) Australia ? 0.962 4 ? (2) Canada ? 0.961 5 ? (1) Ireland ? 0.959 6 ? (1) Sweden ? 0.956 7 ? (2) Switzerland ? 0.955 8 ? (1) Japan ? 0.953 9 ? (1) Netherlands ? 0.953 10 ? (6) France ? 0.952"

Whoever made that list has obviously never lived in Japan

10/10/2008 5:45:06 AM

where's the list that ranks how quickly we could turn their countries into uninhabitable bbq pits

10/10/2008 5:59:47 AM

The metrics of Gross National Happiness:

Quote :

" 1. Economic Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of economic metrics such as consumer debt, average income to consumer price index ratio and income distribution 2. Environmental Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of environmental metrics such as pollution, noise and traffic 3. Physical Wellness: Indicated via statistical measurement of physical health metrics such as severe illnesses 4. Mental Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of mental health metrics such as usage of antidepressants and rise or decline of psychotherapy patients 5. Workplace Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of labor metrics such as jobless claims, job change, workplace complaints and lawsuits 6. Social Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of social metrics such as discrimination, safety, divorce rates, complaints of domestic conflicts and family lawsuits, public lawsuits, crime rates 7. Political Wellness: Indicated via direct survey and statistical measurement of political metrics such as the quality of local democracy, individual freedom, and foreign conflicts. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness

It's unfortunate that libertarianism has come to be defined so much by property rights solely. It's a good litmus test, but it's not the end-all be-all, unless you define yourself by your stuff and not how you live in concert with others. Yeah, having and respecting others stuff is cool, but what about trying not to live in fear that everyone else is out to get you like game theory and other "public choice" bullshit tries to teach people.

If I had to choose a country on the right track, it's probably, shockingly, Costa Rica: tax exemptions for production and exportation, fostering of financial and banking, funding committed to education and welfare still. Ireland has done a similar thing. We could have that sort of welfare system too (UHC, good unemployment insurance) if we'd stop acting like it's an attack on our manhood.

That and we stopped pissing people off so we could shrink the military.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 7:07 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2008 7:00:01 PM

Quote :

"^i think everybody is doing so much better though."

Iceland is a very small country so it can't absorb long term economic stress like larger countries can. If you cared to read up on the issue instead of talking out of your ass you would see that other countries are handling the economic crisis much better right now. Now, if this continues for another few weeks that may change.

10/10/2008 7:04:11 PM

USA...no argument

10/10/2008 11:42:46 PM

hence why i think everybody is doing so much better

10/11/2008 12:32:22 AM

Fuck the liberal media for trying to trick the common people with there anti-american nonsense. If they think Iceland and Norway are #1 and #2; being such a great place to live than they can GTFO!!

10/11/2008 2:06:28 AM

how do you know these were made by american media?

10/11/2008 3:36:35 AM

Well, technically speaking, 'media' as a word applies to most forms of mass communication. 'American' usually applies to citizens of the United States. As such, a blog written by a housewife in Texas would count as American Media. So, unless you are suggesting the lists were compiled in Belgium, quite unlikely given the .com, then they are from the American Media.

10/11/2008 10:52:50 AM