yes we should take something that was gained by the help of the US government.

wall st is not a money making bubble. The government has its hands all up in that shit.

taking from the poor (me) and giving to the rich (everyone fucking everything up) is a good way to go tho.

10/16/2008 11:00:05 AM

Quote :

"We should take it. "

jesus kid. You do not have a right to someone elses things. And you GIVE them your money, they dont TAKE IT. Fucking listen to yourself.

Dental, clearly you havent looked at who pays the taxes in this country. Google it.

10/16/2008 11:05:22 AM

im sorry but someone has to pay for all this shit.

the war in iraq is not cheap. Rich people have more money than poor people thus why they pay more taxes. If these people dont like it they would move right? Well they wont because this country is fuckin awesome. Its awesome because we pay for alot of shit and spend a shitload of money on stuff. How is this possible?

lots and lots of government subsities on huge comporations.

everyone has their hands in it so stop acting like the government is taking from the rich and giving to the poor because most of these people wouldnt be rich if it wasnt for this fine country and all the money the government gives to them.

pony up.

10/16/2008 11:12:25 AM

You're not listening to me. Or you're being willfully ignorant. This IS class warfare. Don't pretend it's not. Class warfare has been going on for thousands of years and the people at the top want to hang onto their power through any means necessary. It is OUR job as the people/plebeians/serfs to fight THEM tooth and nail for every bit of power THEY try to take from US.

I am not advocating socialism because I think that holds the entire country back. But the form of capitalism that we have been introduced to over the past eight years is ugly and sickening. THEY will do anything they can in order to make a buck off the backs of their workers so that THEY can live without working. Well... now it's time that the people capitalize the one time we have the opportunity to do so. THEY started this war by profiting off the fucking of the economy and now it's time THEY got stuck. I will not stand idly by while THEY receive more money at a time when I will be paying higher taxes.

This IS class warfare and THEY started it. WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 11:14:21 AM

It's like this. The whole idea behind cutting taxes for corporations and the rich is that it's supposed to create jobs and spur innovation. Well, that doesn't happen. Hasn't happened for a very long time. In a perfect Utopian world where greed doesn't drive every decision made by CEOs and shareholders, it would make sense.

Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where bunch of greedy assholes on wall street nearly brought our economy to a screeching halt. So all you have left is your fundamental ideological principle that redistribution of wealth is "wrong", and that people should be left to do whatever they want with their money. That principle has failed though, it simply doesn't work. Believing in something that doesn't work just because it's part of your basic ideology isn't smart.

10/16/2008 11:26:15 AM

Why do you all oppose cutting taxes on coorporations? But are for giving out handouts and taking a larger percentage of ones income while cutting your percentage? This seems fair?

No, ONE set of rules is fair.

And claiming that they are greedy by wanting to keep what they work for is ridiculous.

You tell me which is more selfish?

1. Wanting to keep what you have worked for
2. Wanting to take what your neighbor has worked for

420, YOU Give them your money hoss. THe govt is the only one that TAKES it.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 11:54:09 AM

they dont take it. you voluntaraly agree to pay taxes by being a US citizen.

also I pay 100 dollars a month to Aetna so if I get sick I wont go broke. Well the other day my coworker got the flu and Aetna wouldnt pay for his medication because it was a "pre-existing" condition.

ha fuck that. THATS taking someones money.

one more thing. If I have to pay part of the 700 billion dollars to bail out these wall st fucks how does that work in your little utopia? I have to pay for their fuck ups when I have zero money in stocks?

10/16/2008 12:02:41 PM

Yes it seems fair. Because when I read about how some people are having to wear their $10,000 dresses twice instead of throwing them away after one use, that's bullshit. I don't give a shit if you think they worked their asses off for that money, they have it and I don't and I will do anything I can to get me some more. That's just capitalism.

10/16/2008 12:08:04 PM

haha i dont think im in the same boat as imstoned.

10/16/2008 12:18:47 PM

Quote :

"I don't give a shit if you think they worked their asses off for that money, they have it and I don't and I will do anything I can to get me some more. "

Yep, including TAKING it from them and giving it to you huh.

If you agree to pay taxes by being a citizen, why do so few pay all the taxes hoss? Little more to it than just being a citizen. Its also why companies and people put thier assets overseas to avoid these high taxes.. who wouldnt.

Smart guy getting your own ins. But it probably went to a deductible I would imagine. You want to talk about claims being denied by insurances? We have 3 girls here who do nothing but file claims and reflie them bc they will just reject some for the hell of it... and yes that includes medicare and medicaid.

ANd your portion of that bailout is 10k, and its total horseshit. Again, just another step away from actually having consequences for bad actions.. but it was the govt that encouraged those bad actions. I blame govt first.

But you realize you pay for alot of peoples fuck ups when you pay your taxes, its unfortunate that you cant choose how you money gets spent once they take it. Thats why im for the fairtax. No longer penalize production and savings.

10/16/2008 12:20:14 PM

I'm taking an extreme ideological point of view to point out the absurdity and dumbassiness of eyedrb, who always totes the same retarded ideological values.

Quote :

"ANd your portion of that bailout is 10k, and its total horseshit. Again, just another step away from actually having consequences for bad actions.. but it was the govt that encouraged those bad actions. I blame govt first."

Who's been in charge of Congress for 12 of the past 14 years and the Presidency for the past 8? Do you see why you're a fucking moron for wanting to vote for McCain... or anything other Republican for that matter?

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 12:28 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 12:23:56 PM

THEY ARE RICH I DON'T THINK THEY'D MIND YOU TAKING THEIR SHIT, EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF $

10/16/2008 12:24:59 PM

Quote :

"ThePeter: this guy wants to move this country towards socialism."

lol

You mean more than this guy already has?

10/16/2008 12:27:12 PM

yep, im the dumbass 420. When did the bailout pass?

Tell me how much spending has increased since 2006

Also, explain to me how Obama is planning on spending LESS than mccain?

10/16/2008 12:36:48 PM

Quote :

"yep, im the dumbass 420. When did the bailout pass? Tell me how much spending has increased since 2006 Also, explain to me how Obama is planning on spending LESS than mccain?"

Ok... so you're trying to blame the Bush/Bernanke/Paulson bailout on the Democratic Congress.

You're trying to blame the deficit that was created after Bush took office in 2000 on a Democratic Congress that has only been in power less than 2 years without even mentioning the Iraq War.

And... you're trying to argue that Obama's economic plan is worse even though McCain's will give more money to the people who don't need it as badly right now and increase the deficit more than Obama's will.

Yeah... you should not be allowed to vote.

10/16/2008 12:40:21 PM

if we got to choose where our taxes went the war in Iraq would have been over in 2004 because we would have run out of defense spending.

also our roads would suck because no one would want to pay the tax on gas.

10/16/2008 12:42:44 PM

Our roads do suck. Our infrastructure is crumbling.

10/16/2008 12:43:21 PM

did someone point out that a plumber making $250k is doing quite well and makes more than many doctors?

if he is simply buying a business for $250k then he can deduct expenses, his income has to be $250k+

10/16/2008 12:44:22 PM

THAT'S IRRELEVANT. RICH PEOPLE ARE HURTING RIGHT NOW!!!!

10/16/2008 12:45:02 PM

Quote :

"Why do you all oppose cutting taxes on coorporations? But are for giving out handouts and taking a larger percentage of ones income while cutting your percentage? This seems fair? No, ONE set of rules is fair. "

How does this help McCain in any way? If ONE set of rules is fair, his plan isn't fair either. And i highly doubt the corporations are going to look out for my income like you're looking out for theirs. Considering this, i'd be an idiot to not vote in my own interests.

If McCains plan is not fair and Obama's is not fair, at least I am better off with Obamas.

10/16/2008 12:45:37 PM

word up.

I only make 32k at an indy record label

im fucked regardless.

10/16/2008 12:47:47 PM

420, im blaming govt. Although you cant deny things have gotten worse in the last 2 yrs.

That is why im voting mccain, the lesser of two evils. Obama will expand the problem more...government.

The plumber makes a shitload more than I do, but Im not envious. I dont want his money. If someone agrees to pay him that.. great.

Yes, I think there should be one set of rules for all. I dont know how one coudl argue against that.

10/16/2008 1:40:30 PM

socialists argue against that

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 2:08:12 PM

Quote :

"I don't give a shit if you think they worked their asses off for that money, they have it and I don't and I will do anything I can to get me some more. That's just capitalism. "

no, that's not capitalism any more than it would be if I knocked you out and took your wallet.

Quote :

"Class warfare has been going on for thousands of years and the people at the top want to hang onto their power through any means necessary. It is OUR job as the people/plebeians/serfs to fight THEM tooth and nail for every bit of power THEY try to take from US. "

except that it's not them holding you down and trying to take anything from you--it's just jealousy and trying to get something for nothing. Even if my libertarian utopia, the "rich" would still be hooking the poor up--just not as much as right now, and certainly not as much as you advocate.

furthermore, you're looking at it all wrong, like a beaten dog with a defeatist attitude, which is exactly what you'll remain until you change your entire outlook or luck out and win the lottery. Your job isn't to take from them at every opportunity, looking for what scraps you can snatch from under the table before they pick it up. No, if you want to increase your standard of living, your job is to BECOME one of them. It's harder work, but the reward is far greater, with the ceiling far higher.

10/16/2008 2:25:18 PM

Quote :

"no, that's not capitalism any more than it would be if I knocked you out and took your wallet."

It is, however, self-interest. Folks rarely complain about government policy that benefits them directly.

10/16/2008 2:40:08 PM

Quote :

"420, im blaming govt. Although you cant deny things have gotten worse in the last 2 yrs. That is why im voting mccain, the lesser of two evils. Obama will expand the problem more...government. The plumber makes a shitload more than I do, but Im not envious. I dont want his money. If someone agrees to pay him that.. great. Yes, I think there should be one set of rules for all. I dont know how one coudl argue against that."

ha first of all im removing myself from 420's rant. I dont believe what hes saying

ok heres the deal. I dont want the plumbers money. I dont really need anything from Obama or the government and Id rather them leave me alone. However this is not an option while living in the united states. Im not voting for McCain because his health care plan is completely worthless (wtf is 5k worth when dealing with health care and where is that money coming from) and his stance on Iraq doesnt solve anything and just spends more of my money. He's also pro-life.

this isnt a matter of wanting anyones money or taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Its a matter of stabalizing this country so its not top heavy. For example, real estate prices in NYC have almost quadrupled in the last 10 years. Why? because a small fraction of people with money inflated prices which caused people with out loads of money to buy property which had over inflated value. Now real estate prices in NYC are dropping fast and fucking over alot of the little people. The extremely rich who caused the problem are effect little because they have insanes amount of income. If the middle class starts to lose alot of money for what ever reason everyone will suffer because they wont be getting the plumbing fix in their house... b/c they're broke. This doesnt even bring into account the huge amount of lay offs. Middle income people wont even have money to keep their house thus fucking over joe the plumber again. By taxing those making over 250k and lessing the taxes on those making less allows us to maybe prevent the middle class from getting smaller and fucking everyone over in a huge way.

but who knows. we're fucked regardless.

10/16/2008 2:50:57 PM

This is Rush's interpretation of this:



How subtle. Keep it classy, GOP.

10/16/2008 3:55:24 PM

I already said I was being facetious with my rant to show how silly eyedrb is being with his tax cuts for the rich nonsense. Giving tax cuts to the people who need it least right now is just as absurd as the position I was taking.

I wasn't kidding about waking up though. Some of you are failing to realize exactly WHY we're in tough times right now. It IS because of failed Republican policy and it's not because the Democrats have had control of Congress for about 20 months. This was a long-time coming and a clear failure by Republican leadership to stop it from happening.

Recessions hit the middle class the hardest and McCain's tax plan doesn't provide as much tax relief to the middle class as Obama's. Not to mention that there are many, many people who are dealing with health care issues that are costing them tens of thousands of dollars and that's something the Democrats can and will handle better than the Republicans. Not to mention climate change and energy policy. Those 3 and the economy are the top 4 issues right now and the Republicans don't have a leg to stand on on any of them. They have completely and utterly failed the American public in every way, shape, and form over the past 8 years and anyone who is not willing to vote them out is a buffoon.

10/16/2008 3:56:52 PM

I hope they both lose their footing and fall into the river. But my caring is not with those that did not get their raise this year, it is with those that lost their jobs (i assume this recession will have unemployment at some point). As such, taxing those that are most likely to create those jobs seems like kicking those that are down in order to provide more comfy cussions to those sitting on couches.

But this is all a false delima. Whats wrong with tax cuts for everyone? Lay off a few thousand regulators, disband 20% of the military, and start selling off Federal Lands and given everyone a large tax cut.

10/16/2008 4:59:26 PM

I can get behind that. not sure if your serious tho.

we have alot of excess bullshit.

10/16/2008 5:03:36 PM

Quote :

"I can get behind that. for serious "

10/16/2008 5:37:53 PM

Quote :

"the war in iraq is not cheap."

Neither is SS. Neither is medicare. neither is medicaid. Those three entitlement programs [/i]alone[/i] almost cost more per month than a year in Iraq. If you want to bitch about government wasting money, put those complaints where they are due.

10/16/2008 6:03:41 PM

sounds like if we scrapped ss, scrapped the iraq war, and everyone had healthcare, we'd have more money then

10/16/2008 6:05:11 PM

Quote :

"Well the other day my coworker got the flu and Aetna wouldnt pay for his medication because it was a "pre-existing" condition. ha fuck that. THATS taking someones money."

Obviously you don't have much experience with that stuff. Insurance companies purposely deny claims all the time in the hopes that you'll give up. He can get that worked out but he probably just gave up as soon as it was denied, which is EXACTLY what they wanted him to do. As long as he didn't have the flu before he got Aetna then it's not a pre-existing condition. They just made up a reason to deny it. If you re-submit your claim and argue your point (And possibly threaten to report them) they'll eventually say "OH, OOOOH, I see what happened, we made a mistake. Sorry. Here's your money." I've worked in medical billing for years, this is how insurance companies operate.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 6:26 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 6:24:30 PM

Yeah, I was gonna say, how exactly is the flu a "pre-existing condition."

10/16/2008 6:28:45 PM

^^ so this is better than nationalized health care how?

and if we had nationalized health care we could kill medicare and medicaid.

also SS is another can of shit which is kinda worthless as well which is going down the tube.

10/16/2008 8:02:48 PM

^ well, if governments didn't mandate all of the bullshit be covered by insurance, then the guy could probably have bought his medications at a reasonable price without insurance. Or, if the government would get out of bed w/ the drug companies... or if the government would quit paying below market price for health care... or...

10/16/2008 10:40:34 PM

I like how they even incorporated his logo.

10/16/2008 10:51:56 PM

^^ ha well yes if all of those things happened everything would be awesome.

so how are we gonna do that?

10/17/2008 8:51:15 AM

ROFL... needs more bling... more please!

[Edited on October 17, 2008 at 9:59 AM. Reason : ]

10/17/2008 9:58:51 AM

lol With all the kickbacks Paulson is getting youd think he could afford a better watch than a timex


maybe thats what wal-mart gave him though

10/17/2008 10:15:39 AM

And lose his Timex endorsement deal?

10/17/2008 10:21:31 AM

i was talking about this with my gf actually, if shit gets too bad the rich folks will just leave to countries that won't fuck with them for a few years.

never underestimate the ability of rich people to avoid politicians

nobama's ideas have been tried before with yacht taxes, what it was supposed to do: tax rich high end luxury purchases of private yachts in the US.

what happened: total collapse of the US yacht sector. dozens of businesses went out of bankrupt. thousands of people lost their jobs spread out through dozens of other economic sectors.

the reason: rich people simple went to other countries to buy yachts or simply stopped buying them.

seems like they need to teach economics to politicians....

10/17/2008 3:20:31 PM

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, save:

Quote :

"furthermore, you're looking at it all wrong, like a beaten dog with a defeatist attitude, which is exactly what you'll remain until you change your entire outlook or luck out and win the lottery. Your job isn't to take from them at every opportunity, looking for what scraps you can snatch from under the table before they pick it up. No, if you want to increase your standard of living, your job is to BECOME one of them. It's harder work, but the reward is far greater, with the ceiling far higher."

THANK YOU DUKE

10/17/2008 3:26:16 PM

^^ you're comparing boat making to the entire USA.

ok

I'll believe it when the rich people all move out.

10/17/2008 4:26:05 PM

how about comparing outsourcing to the entire USA? will you buy that example?

10/17/2008 4:31:12 PM

We need to pay rich people simply for staying in America, or we'll lose them all in a mass exodus to Ireland.

10/17/2008 5:31:25 PM

maybe we can just put a cap on everybody's salary...after all nobody needs to make more than about $400,000 a year do they?

10/17/2008 5:32:37 PM

by "staying", you obviously mean keeping their capital here...

10/17/2008 5:33:43 PM

Quote :

"never underestimate the ability of rich people to avoid politicians"

I'm glad someone brought up this point. Most of these redistribution programs fail to fully realize all the consequences of their actions. The dirty little secret is that "rich people" will never do with less because they don't have to. Own a business and raise my taxes? Fine I'll just dispense with enough employees or cut their benefits or not raise their salaries enough to make up for it. Try to take some of my personal fortune? I'll just move my money or myself offshore. Try to punish me for firing employees or cutting benefits? I'll close up shop and move to a country that appreciates the jobs I create.

10/17/2008 5:57:10 PM