I don't think anyone smart believes he will ACTUALLY change washington, but an attempt would be nice.

Honestly, he has to try, because he has built himself up to an incredibly high standard over the last 2 years. Thats why I'm not worried about him fucking things up.

11/5/2008 5:03:38 PM

I don't think it'd be that hard to change Washington, it's just a matter of if he actually WANTS to or not.

Pretty much all presidents run on the platform of change and reform, and it rarely happens, not for the better at least.

11/5/2008 5:05:48 PM

Quote :

"I generally don't stoop to the level of the far left, with respect to personal attacks."

don't be an idiot.

seriously.

both sides sling as much shit as the other. it's not like the left or right stoops lower than the other.

11/5/2008 5:06:03 PM

I used to think that the left was more vicious (not to mention whiny and obnoxious) because they were guided more by emotions than logic, and when people are emotional they get irrational and bitchy.

I can't really subscribe to that line of thinking anymore. Both sides have an unhealthy percentage of partisan douchebags.

11/5/2008 5:09:52 PM

After reading the long list of things that apparently horrify you about Obama or his policy beliefs, I'm confused as to exactly what you mean by "support." It seems like you're using a pretty empty definition; what does it mean to "support" an individual as a person if you don't support their past actions, ideas, or future plans?

It sounds like in essence you just want people not to be dicks. That sounds like a fair goal no matter how you apply it. Being respectful to everyone is virtuous.

But if you disagree with a political leader, you could argue that we have a civic duty to dissent and let our voices be heard; it's in the spirit of American democracy, certainly more so than self-censorship would be in the face of some notion that we should "support" our leaders no matter what.

Quote :

"I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment of this thread. If you don't like the President, speak up."

11/5/2008 5:21:02 PM

Quote :

"But if you disagree with a political leader, you could argue that we have a civic duty to dissent and let our voices be heard; it's in the spirit of American democracy, certainly more so than self-censorship would be in the face of some notion that we should "support" our leaders no matter what."

This is true, but Obama hasn't had a chance to do anything for anyone to disagree. Certain people who aren't very bright are trying to bash him on the basis of political attacks made during an election, that are really mostly baseless.

11/5/2008 5:26:00 PM

Quote :

"He is pulling out of the war in Iraq, which makes the death of all of those soldiers, three of them friends of mine worth nothing."

Yeah ousting a dictator and setting up a new government, which also wants us out in the next few years, were worthless accomplishments.

Quote :

"He has associated with evil, terrible men"

Quote :

"I did not vote for him, and truly believe that he was voted for less on issues and more on rhetoric and skin color."

Thanks for trivializing the votes of 52% of the population. What would you say to conservatives like Kathleen Parker, Christopher Buckley, Peggy Noonan, and David Brooks, who spoke out against his opponent? Or Ken Adelman, a 'staunch conservative', and Barry Goldwater's daughter both of whom endorsed Obama?

Quote :

"For 8 years, there was spite, there was hate, there was venom, and there was absolute evil spewed towards George Bush. It was classless, baseless, and devoid of decency in many cases. Yet nonetheless, it was deemed acceptable, and even justifiable, amongst those in the left."

OK, it was not "baseless". You listed many reasons to spew venom at Bush at the top of your post. And, for balance, a good number of Bush supporters branded the people who opposed the war in Iraq "anti-American", questioned their patriotism, and a lot of other bullshit.

11/5/2008 8:13:02 PM

Quote :

"His spoken policies wreak of socialism, giving the Government more say than ever before in what we do with our lives."

He hasn't even done anything yet and you're already laying shit out.

11/5/2008 8:29:12 PM

This thread is fucking retarded, as is the thread creator.

11/5/2008 8:44:40 PM

i was thinking simple minded

but retarded might apply too

11/5/2008 9:45:47 PM

you...


motherfuckers.

11/5/2008 10:40:29 PM

I mean, really? What was the purpose of creating this thread? You went through a whole laundry list of things that Bush has done that you think make him a good President. The list is fucking retarded because there is absolutely no way anyone should possibly be able to consider him a good President. He has been terrible on everything. You blame all of the problems that he has failed to solve during his term on something else and not his ineptitude as Commander in Chief. That's the first reason I think you're stupid...

Then you go on to explain to me that Obama was elected last night and then you start to bash his policies which haven't even been put into place yet. You use the election buzzwords that failed to get McCain elected like 'socialism' and his ties to Bill Ayers among other frivolous or outright wrong things. You then trivialize his election by asserting that it was only because of his race when, in reality, he won more outright than any President in decades... something that could not possibly have happened without broad support from multiple groups.

Lastly, you feign outrage at people's criticism of Bush. Surely you can't be serious that all those "classless, baseless" attacks are anything more than politics as usual. It doesn't faze me when I hear people call my candidate the Anti-Christ or a nigger. There's a reason Bush catches a lot of flak... it's because he's a bad President and his opinion poll numbers prove that the majority of America believes that way as well. So save your fake anger when your post is just as insulting as all of those more overt attacks.

Obama won. Get over it. Despite running against one of the sleaziest, most desperate campaigns in modern history, he overcame all those things to get elected. And he did it largely with class and without resorting to unfounded personal attacks. He's already changed politics in that regard and hopefully he'll change Washington for the better as well. So drop all of your pre-conceived notions about what his Presidency will entail and judge it based on its merits. If, at the end of the day, his policies fail and his leadership is ineffectual... then you can attack him. I'll be right there with you, too.

11/5/2008 10:57:09 PM

^You completely missed his point.

Granted, he didn't make it in the best possible way, but not only did you manage to prove his point about bush-bashing ("He has been terrible on everything" is simply an untrue statement), you also managed to tell him to do EXACTLY what he says he is doing... getting over it.

11/5/2008 10:59:09 PM

But he said he supports him while simultaneously denouncing his policies. That doesn't make any sense. He's already bashing Obama for shit he hasn't even done yet.

11/5/2008 11:00:31 PM

Criticism != Blind hate.

Yeah, his criticisms are a little borderline between rational dissent and irrational dislike, but his point is that he's hoping that Obama will do well, not hoping that Obama will fail out of spite.

11/5/2008 11:03:59 PM

What kind of sane, rational person would ever hope that a President would fail simply for personal satisfaction? Why would AxlBonBach feel the extraordinary obligation to create a thread telling everything he hopes this President is a good one?

11/5/2008 11:07:51 PM

Quote :

"What kind of sane, rational person would ever hope that a President would fail simply for personal satisfaction?"

Bitter and angry losers? Though they can barely be called rational.

You might have missed it, but there WERE actually a lot of people implying, if not outright proclaiming, that they hoped for Bush to keep failing... be it for the further gain of the Democratic Party, or simply out of spiteful dickery.

11/5/2008 11:13:00 PM

IMSToned missed the point. THat's a shock.

11/5/2008 11:22:27 PM

Quote :

"droves of people voting against the man because of his skin color."

No they didn't. McCain got less support than GWB. More people voted for Obama because of his skin color than voted against him.

Also, people hated Bush before he was even in office because it was a "rigged" election.

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason : whatever]

11/6/2008 12:58:18 AM

Quote :

"Criticism != Blind hate."

11/6/2008 1:03:25 AM

I intend to read the whole thread later, but I would like to say the following:

Quote :

"For 8 years, there was spite, there was hate, there was venom, and there was absolute evil spewed towards George Bush."

For 8 years George Bush spewed spite, venom, and absolute evil towards the vast majority of the world, including towards millions of Americans.

Quote :

"It was classless, baseless, and devoid of decency in many cases."

Going in to a country that posed no threat to the US and killing HALF A MILLION civilians is very classy, justified, and decent.

Quote :

"Yet nonetheless, it was deemed acceptable, and even justifiable, amongst those in the left. "

Yet nonetheless, the destruction of a country and its peoples was deemed acceptable, and even justifiable, by 10s of millions of Americans, including by YOU.

11/6/2008 9:08:19 AM

good thread, Donny. I, for one, hated George Bush. Thought he acted way too much on his own instincts, which ultimately were rooted in his father's dealings with Iraq. However, I've always canned a little discord because I know for certain that being faced with what happened on 9/11 is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Hell, the presidency of the US is the very last job I'd ever fucking want.

and this is also agreeable:

Quote :

"both sides sling as much shit as the other. it's not like the left or right stoops lower than the other."

but as a side note, I've never agreed with the war in Iraq. at all.

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 9:25 AM. Reason : uiuuiiuiuiuiui]

11/6/2008 9:22:58 AM

Quote :

"I generally don't stoop to the level of the far left or far right, with respect to personal attacks."

11/6/2008 1:00:19 PM