Quote :

"So? Unless he plans to support exorcism-based health care I don't see how this is a problem. Every religious person in the world believes in equally weird shit"

There is a big difference, to me, between people who BELIEVE crazy shit and people who DO crazy shit. If you get up in front of a room and tell them that a magical jew baby can make them immortal, that's kind of wacky. If you do it while doing this, it is something else entirely.

11/8/2008 2:15:00 PM

i know. how dare the guy have religious beliefs and shit. HOW DARE HE DO THAT

11/8/2008 2:16:11 PM

Quote :

"Jindal is not the man right now, according to GOP likely voters polled. Of course, things could and probably will change. "

That's because the GOP hasn't told anyone who he is. Jindal has zero national press, and the GOP pretty much relies on TV to tell people who their choices are. You gotta remember the base of the "conservative right" are, for the most part, pretty fucking stupid people. Hell, what was the percentage that still thinks Obama is Muslim?

11/8/2008 2:19:17 PM

Quote :

"Did you completely ignore my post?"

Yes, because I can't find much support for it. I can find articles saying he supports ID, but I can't find any saying that the accusation that he supports ID is baseless. I hope you're right, but I'm not going to bank on it.

Quote :

"Because there are plenty of issues that his religion will affect his signing/veto on, including but not limited to:"

That it could effect, maybe. I think we've forgotten that somebody having a religion is not the same as somebody voting a religion.

And other than your last two points, you listed a lot of things with two mainstream positions, and I'm quite convinced that you're only upset about the possibility of religious interference because it would put him on the opposite side of the issue from you -- which is already true of pretty much all Republicans, fundies or not.

And I couldn't help but post this little gem:

Quote :

""I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.""

-Barack Obama, lord and savior of liberal, secular, sane politics

Quote :

"Jindal is not the man right now, according to GOP likely voters polled. Of course, things could and probably will change. "

I don't think he'll run for President next cycle or possibly ever, but Palin would get massacred. I can't believe they're even doing polls four years out. You might as well try to predict the weather on election day 2012.

11/8/2008 2:30:42 PM

Quote :

"I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Yeah, that really, really bothers me. One of the many reasons not to vote for Obama. Of course, in my case, there were many more reasons to vote for him, which is why I did.

11/8/2008 3:23:14 PM

Quote :

"the GOP pretty much relies on TV to tell people who their choices are."

lol, what do all the super smarty liberals do to find about their candidates?

11/8/2008 3:31:52 PM

The Independent

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/

11/8/2008 3:49:17 PM

Obama wasnt the clear choice after 2004....heck, was he even on the radar?

[Edited on November 8, 2008 at 5:00 PM. Reason : w]

11/8/2008 4:59:53 PM

yes he was on the radar. i hadnt really heard of him before, but ppl were making all kinds of hubub about him.

[Edited on November 8, 2008 at 6:23 PM. Reason : he speech helped a bunch im sure.]

11/8/2008 6:22:43 PM

obama hit the national radar w/ his 2004 DNC keynote address.

11/9/2008 2:33:51 AM

Quote :

""When asked to choose among some of the GOP's top names for their choice for the party's 2012 presidential nominee, 64% say Palin. The next closest contenders are two former governors and unsuccessful challengers for the presidential nomination this year -- Mike Huckabee of Arkansas with 12% support and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts with 11%. Three other sitting governors – Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Charlie Crist of Florida and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota – all pull low single-digit support." "

haha, so much for lessons learned from getting completely smoked in the last TWO election cycles, at least so far. Maybe the actual powers that be within the party will get it right, despite the cluelessness of the rank & file.

...but I kinda doubt it.

11/9/2008 10:35:39 AM

^ its to soon after the election for any poll like that. That is representing name recognition and coverage in the media.

11/9/2008 10:44:59 AM

No doubt. That's why I said "at least so far."

Still, I was hoping that polls would already be reflecting the reality that should be obvious, but I suppose is not to most people.

The good thing is that IF the party's leaders can push it into the right direction, I believe that most of the rank & file voters will wholeheartedly support whoever the annointed ones are, barring something totally out of left field, like a Log Cabin Republican running for President, etc.

11/9/2008 11:07:59 AM

Quote :

"A black man -- actually, HALF black -- just became President of the US. It will still be quite some time before Indians (dot, not feather) and Asians could become President of the US."

A lot of people said they would never live to see a black president. You can think that it will still be quite some time. I'm not saying it will happen or it won't, but the predictability of such an event has too many factors beyond the scope of a single person. Oh, and

Quote :

"As I recall he became governor of Louisiana pretty handily, despite it being a bigtime red state without a notable Indian population."

[Edited on November 9, 2008 at 11:33 AM. Reason : a]

11/9/2008 11:33:02 AM

Quote :

"On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism"

- Goldwater

11/9/2008 11:54:19 AM

say what you will about blacks, in this country blacks have always been seen as American

Hindoos, Mohammadeans, Chinamen and the various other assorted orientals have not.

11/9/2008 2:45:50 PM

blacks are just as american as me or you

11/9/2008 2:57:13 PM

Americans are just as American as other Americans.

11/9/2008 2:58:34 PM

lol yes!

11/9/2008 3:04:14 PM

It has begun....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl147

11/9/2008 8:27:57 PM

Quote :

"with a last name that rhymed with the country's enemy number one and a middle name that matched enemy number two's would be our next president? "

And with that comment, Jon Brooks of The Buzz Log just made my extensive list of dumbasses who I'll never pay attention to.

11/9/2008 8:33:28 PM

^^ I can't see Jindal winning in 2012. 2016 would even be tough, just because I don't know if America can elect 2 minority presidents in a row.

11/9/2008 8:57:23 PM

Are you really arguing this?

If Obama has a failed presidency, the GOP could run Reagan's newly exhumed corpse and still win the election.

If Obama has a successful presidency, you can kiss away any GOP prayer of winning in 2012.

There's really no middle ground.

11/10/2008 4:44:34 AM

^

11/10/2008 7:08:49 AM

i think he'd be more likely to make a VP pick than be a presidential choice. there are some people on the right who wouldn't vote for him just based on his race alone because they can't really differentiate between what him, a muslim, or an iranian would be. that would be the point where they would consider there party having gone to shit, instead of reflecting upon that now as they should be.

11/10/2008 9:49:35 AM

Yeah, he's ideally suited to be VP. He makes all the religious nuts swoon and adds an element of diversity, and in the event he wants to propose the occasional religious policy the President can filter it out.

11/10/2008 12:58:08 PM

Quote :

"You might as well try to predict the weather on election day 2012."

it's going to be cold and raining

11/10/2008 1:11:22 PM

Palin/Jindal 2012

GOP's saviors?

11/10/2008 4:17:59 PM

Two religious nuts on a ticket would destroy the party.

Just so you know.

11/10/2008 4:38:21 PM

More like destroy the world

11/10/2008 4:53:53 PM

Quote :

"Yes, because I can't find much support for it. I can find articles saying he supports ID, but I can't find any saying that the accusation that he supports ID is baseless. I hope you're right, but I'm not going to bank on it."

[user]GrumpGOP[/user]: Wait, what? How many of those articles saying he supports ID in schools, are BASED? I can give you the answer: 0. He's never said it. Ever. He's never been asked about it that I can tell, at all.

Those articles are CONJECTURE on his support of a bill which is COMPLETELY non-religious in nature. There's no need for articles debunking the accusation, because it's a baseless accusation.

11/10/2008 6:13:16 PM

Noen, i never thought you were a creationist nut?

11/10/2008 11:42:49 PM

i don't think he is. just trying to be fair.

in my opinion, more fair than Jindal deserves, but that's ok i guess

11/10/2008 11:50:05 PM

^^I'm not. My point is, it's a fucking stupid thing to use against a candidate, because they CANT PUT IT IN THE CURRICULUM even if they wanted to. And it's extremely misleading trying to characterize Jindal as being a religious radical, because his POLICY history does not reflect that at all. Outside of his stance on abortion, I haven't seen anything non-secular about his policies.

He is a modern conservative in almost every sense of the word. So of course the left is going to try and brand him as a neo-conservative, because if anyone found out he was actually a traditional republican with Charisma, Intelligence, Education, Experience and a proven track record, it would be damn near impossible to run against him.

Democrats versus Republicans have been boiled down to ideology versus ideology. If you get a policy guy in the race, it'd require the other side to either change their game. He really is the antithesis to Obama in a lot of (good) ways.

11/12/2008 11:35:20 PM

Uh... yeah but

That kind of far far right religious stance affects a bunch of other things

-Stem cell research
-Abortion
-Marriage
-Keeping a SECULAR government

11/12/2008 11:38:56 PM

^dude...dont encourage them to change...if they keep those stances they will never be in the majority again

[Edited on November 13, 2008 at 12:33 AM. Reason : PLEASE WARN ME IF I'M ABOUT TO GET SUSPENDED FOR SOMETHING I BELIEVE IN ]

11/13/2008 12:33:07 AM

on the one hand, i want to agree with your underlying presumption that the american public is becoming more and more enlightened

but on the other hand, evidence seems to show that -- barring an economic crisis -- rightwing christian kneejerk reactionaries drive the debate by focusing on some variation of "abortion-loving lesbians and witches teaching evolution in our schools" as their hot button issues.

we have to remember that even though the electoral was a landslide, popular vote was only 52-48. if obama loses his base and/or the rightwing reactionaries can get fired up again, i fear we'll easily see a shift back to the politics of fear and division.



and as for you getting suspended, just quit being a 'tard and you have nothing to worry about.








[Edited on November 13, 2008 at 2:48 AM. Reason : ]

11/13/2008 2:38:08 AM

Quote :

" Noen: it's extremely misleading trying to characterize Jindal as being a religious radical, because his POLICY history does not reflect that at all. He is a modern conservative in almost every sense of the word. "

and you're either outright lying, or you're just completely and totally uninformed.... i wonder, which is it?


Bobby Jindal believes -- and voted :

that women have NO rights, whatsoever, to abortion services.
that stem cell research is IMMORAL and should always be illegal.
that teachers should be allowed to lead Prayers in School
that the Pledge of Allegiance, with the "Under God" addition, should be recited in school
that "Intelligent Design" should be taught as an "alternative" to evolutionary theory in science class
that rape should be a capital offense (death penalty)
that people who can't pay medical co-pay should be denied treatment
that people should not be able to negotiate prescription drug prices
that any drug use, including Marijuana, is IMMORAL and should always be a criminal offense
to oppose every form of progressive tax system
to make PATRIOT Act permanent
to continue domestic intelligence gathering without civil oversight
to continue warrantless wiretaps on citizens
to physically seal the US border with mexico (2000-mile fence)
to remove all bilingual government services
to support citizen militia groups to patrol border and not give mexican govt. information about it
to amend the U.S. Constitution to require that English be the only official language

-- http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Bobby_Jindal.htm



i will give you one thing that you're probably right about: he's not a neo-con. he's a PALEO-CON.

he is a fucking RELIGIOUS NUTJOB.

this guy is more dangerous than Sarah Palin ever could be. he can stay down in the swamps of Louisiana, but god help us if he ever gets anywhere near national and international policy at the executive level.

11/13/2008 3:16:56 AM

Well I finally managed to find a direct quote for his support of Intelligent Design.

Fortunately, it's STILL A MOOT POINT. ID cannot be taught in public schools, short of a constitutional amendment.

Quote :

"that stem cell research is IMMORAL and should always be illegal. that teachers should be allowed to lead Prayers in School that the Pledge of Allegiance, with the "Under God" addition, should be recited in school that "Intelligent Design" should be taught as an "alternative" to evolutionary theory in science class "

Stem Cell research is a State's rights issue, so I could care less about his stance as a presidential candidate.
Teachers should be allowed to lead prayers, so long as they are respectful and inclusive of other religions.
The latter two are non-issues, that are decided by the judiciary, not the president.

Quote :

" that rape should be a capital offense (death penalty) "

For cases of aggravated rape, rape of youth, and repeat offenders, I have no problem with this (though I don't personally support it). Rape ruins women's lives.

Quote :

" that people who can't pay medical co-pay should be denied treatment that people should not be able to negotiate prescription drug prices"

The former is for non-emergency care only, and has specific exemptions for kids. It also ONLY applies to medicaid. Remember this is in one of the poorest state's in the nation, with what was only a few years ago, some of the highest cost of care per resident in the country.

The negotiated prescription prices I don't support either. Let the market determine fair pricing on medications. Using government strong-arming to force price points on medication would have swiftly diminishing returns.

Quote :

"that any drug use, including Marijuana, is IMMORAL and should always be a criminal offense to oppose every form of progressive tax system "

The drug stance is stupid, I'll give you that.
His tax stances have already had big positive effects in his home state. He's taking over a state government that has LONG been corrupt, and have slowly but surely righted the ship. You don't need progressive tax reform to improve the lives of the poor and lower middle class.
-He raised the minimum wage
-Increased the term of eligibility for food stamps
-Lowered the alternative minimum tax
-Exempted federal rebates from state income tax

Quote :

" to make PATRIOT Act permanent to continue domestic intelligence gathering without civil oversight to continue warrantless wiretaps on citizens"

Yeah, all of these are fucking stupid too. Can't win em all I guess.

Quote :

"to physically seal the US border with mexico (2000-mile fence) to remove all bilingual government services to support citizen militia groups to patrol border and not give mexican govt. information about it to amend the U.S. Constitution to require that English be the only official language"

I pretty much support all of these. We need to secure the mexican border, because Mexico cannot control their own citizens. It has almost nothing to do with terrorism (for me), but a lot to do with human trafficking, drug smuggling, flight from the law, petty crimes and property crimes.

Our government should not adopt English as the official language. It would mean a huge drop in administrative costs to the government. ALL Naturalized citizens under the age of 55 are required to learn to read, write and speak English to become a citizen. It's absolute BULLSHIT that the state provides Spanish services. It's prudent and reasonable to take a requirement of citizenship, as well as the standard curriculum of public schools, and make it officially recognized in law.

The militia thing is pretty stupid.

Quote :

"i will give you one thing that you're probably right about: he's not a neo-con. he's a PALEO-CON. he is a fucking RELIGIOUS NUTJOB. this guy is more dangerous than Sarah Palin ever could be. he"

Hardly. He has done HUGELY positive things for the state of Alabama. His socio-economic policies have had a huge impact on the state, and he has helped a TON of impoverished people. Not to mention, the last hurricane threat, he had FULL evacuation plans and executed them flawlessly.

11/13/2008 5:58:17 AM

Quote :

"that stem cell research is IMMORAL and should always be illegal"

this automatically should make anyone not trust whoever posted this

please do not suspend me for this because it is something that is definitely true and if the duke disagrees then he can pm me and say "dont post that someone saying stem cells should definitely be legal because i do not agree or i will suspend you" etc...you get the point(point is, i should not be suspended for an "obvious" truth, or stating an opinion)

[Edited on November 13, 2008 at 6:08 AM. Reason : .]

11/13/2008 6:02:53 AM

HOW DOES A GOVERNOR GET TO VOTE ON THE PATRIOT ACT???????

11/13/2008 6:49:18 AM

Obviously this is a moving target discussion, but I would say that the GOP needs to recognize that Obama won a large amount of white voters because of white guilt in regards to black slavery. That same dynamic will not exist with Jindal, so to assume that it will, is extremely naive. I second what SandSanta said, only if the Obama Administration does not succeed, will there be a chance at 2012 for the GOP, regardless of the candidate selection.

11/13/2008 7:07:11 AM

^^ BobbyD, he was US Congressman from Louisiana, 2004-2006. thanks for trying though

^^^ DNL, what did i tell you about being a 'tard? Jindal strongly opposes all research into stem cells, at all times, because he thinks it's immoral. if you cant understand the topic, just stfu. and quit whining about your butthurt being suspended for 1 day. i'd have left you in the box for 10.


^^^^ Noen, we can disagree on the tax issues; theres plenty of room to reasonably argue those

but now you're telling me that

stem cell research is a "states' rights issue" ?
public school teachers should be allowed to lead religious prayers in school ???

man, you're an odd cat. you're like a libertarian on economic issues, and fascist on the social issues. combined with the anti-tax and anti-immigrant positions, i see why you're attracted to a religious nutjob like bobby jindal

and Bobby Jindal did "great things for Alabama"? like what? by NOT living there?

and by the way, when you dismiss things as being "decided by the Judiciary", lets recall who puts Federal judges and the Supreme Court justices on the bench.

I'm just glad that Bobby Jindal has about a snowball's chance in hell of ever making it to the US Presidency. May yours and his political views continue to be marginalized as extreme positions.






[Edited on November 13, 2008 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]

11/13/2008 10:54:53 AM

Quote :

"BobbyD, he was US Congressman from Louisiana, 2004-2006. thanks for trying though"

thanks for at least answering the question.

i wasn't aware, mr. rolly eyes.

11/13/2008 11:11:43 AM

Is the economy that bad that we have to outsource our President?

11/13/2008 11:22:59 AM

listen, i made that joke already in the last jindal thread

11/13/2008 11:32:50 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/13/palin.rga/

It has begun.

11/13/2008 11:55:41 AM

from ^

Quote :

""Republicans can help shore [these sectors of the economy] up without getting any more addicted to opium, other people's money. We need to have a rational discussion. What and when is enough enough?""

uhhh, wut?
i guess i'd have to actually hear her saying that to see what kind of inflection or tone she was using, but either way.... that's a strange thing to say

11/13/2008 2:14:57 PM

Quote :

"i wasn't aware, mr. rolly eyes."

no worries, mister ALL CAPS

11/13/2008 2:17:19 PM

Quote :

"but now you're telling me that stem cell research is a "states' rights issue" ? public school teachers should be allowed to lead religious prayers in school ??? "

Yes, if a state wants to ban stem cell research, they are fully within their right to do so. I PERSONALLY think it's fucking stupid, but that doesn't negate state's rights.

And yes, prayer should be allowed in school. Not as a part of curriculum, but before and after class, if a teacher wants to lead a prayer, I have no problem with that at all. What concerns me about it is the chance of oppression and discrimination against non-christians, but that's no reason to deny it completely, rather to build awareness and mutual consideration.

Quote :

"man, you're an odd cat. you're like a libertarian on economic issues, and fascist on the social issues. combined with the anti-tax and anti-immigrant positions, i see why you're attracted to a religious nutjob like bobby jindal"

How am I fascist? Please do tell.

I'm neither anti-tax or anti-immigration. I think we need a consumption tax, not an income tax, federally speaking. His tax policies are the best solution for HIS state, in their situation. I don't think it's fair or prudent to project the economy of Louisiana and it's issues onto the nation as a whole. He would have some very different solutions for federal taxation, I have no doubt.

I am not anti-immigration. I am extremely PRO legal immigration. I think the H1B Visa restrictions should be entirely abolished, I think we need a much more open migrant worker program, I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the Naturalization process (including the elimination of the stupid Dept. of Homeland Security). I am totally supportive of state's spending money to accomodate alternate languages, but it's not something the Fed should be doing at all.

Quote :

"and Bobby Jindal did "great things for Alabama"? like what? by NOT living there? and by the way, when you dismiss things as being "decided by the Judiciary", lets recall who puts Federal judges and the Supreme Court justices on the bench. I'm just glad that Bobby Jindal has about a snowball's chance in hell of ever making it to the US Presidency. May yours and his political views continue to be marginalized as extreme positions."

Whoops, sorry, that was a brain fart. I mean't Louisiana sorry about that.

As for judges, they must be confirmed by Congress, the President only nominates justices. And it's virtually impossible for a President to make any significant change in the court's opinion during his/her tenure. On average a president get's the opportunity to appoint ONE justice. And you know as well as I do, no nutjob is going to get confirmed.

I don't like everything about the man. But he isn't a moonbat as you are suggesting. Just providing a counterpoint to your RIDICULOUSLY left-winged point of view.

11/13/2008 3:03:48 PM