illegals cheat the system by not having credit histories.

they put business out of business by not having to work withing the same constraints.

they make us all pay higher health insurance premiums because our hospitals have to treat them, and then they dont pay. somebody has to pay for their treatment. its CITIZENS who pay.

they increase taxes because we have to hire additional police to enforce our laws.

then when the police arrest them they have no criminal backgrounds- they get released and assume a new name.

11/17/2008 5:16:43 PM

feliz pagina dos.02

11/17/2008 5:16:56 PM

moron, you fucking semantics whore. get off that horse. MY ONLY POINT IS THAT THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS COUNTRY WITH OUR CURRENT POLICIES.

11/17/2008 5:17:54 PM

Moron is correct. The idea that they are criminals just by being here is a stupid misconception.

They committed an INFRACTION by coming over illegally, or overstaying their VISA. Not a felony. Not a Misdemeanor. A fucking infraction. He probably committed criminal fraud in his mortgage papers. But stop calling all illegals criminals because it's just not accurate.

11/17/2008 5:18:00 PM

Quote :

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who: * Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or * Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or * Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime. Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense."

not to mention ss fraud

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2008 5:19:08 PM

I wish I could go back in time and not get a social security number...then all these years of paying money into the system would have come back to me

11/17/2008 5:19:24 PM

Quote :

"Well then he was using a false SSN which is just another crime. And the fact that he used his daughters name is yet another attempt to fraud."

It was a real social security numbers, and it appears they have rectified the legal situation of him using his daughter's name. He would have had to have fraud charges pressed against him for it to be a crime, which didn't happen, and can't happen now.

So you are wrong yet again. It's amazing though you'd reach so deeply to look for reasons why otherwise good and upstanding people should have their lives ruined.

Quote :

"I wish I could go back in time and not get a social security number...then all these years of paying money into the system would have come back to me"

Wow, the river of ignorance continues to flow. Social security is withheld from your paycheck automatically. Being an illegal they pay in to the system, but have no chance (until they're legal) to get any of that back.

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:20 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2008 5:19:39 PM

Quote :

"illegals cheat the system by not having credit histories. they put business out of business by not having to work withing the same constraints. they make us all pay higher health insurance premiums because our hospitals have to treat them, and then they dont pay. somebody has to pay for their treatment. its CITIZENS who pay. they increase taxes because we have to hire additional police to enforce our laws. then when the police arrest them they have no criminal backgrounds- they get released and assume a new name. "

Every single one of these problems is due to our stupid immigration policies that completely ignore the reality of 12 million undocumented aliens living here. Remove the policies that make these people have to live on the fringe of society, and those problems will all magically go away.

11/17/2008 5:19:53 PM

Quote :

"has committed a federal crime."

hell, I was right

11/17/2008 5:20:12 PM

and every person who is arrested is so because of our stupid "laws"

we should just get rid of them

11/17/2008 5:20:40 PM

why all the hate?

11/17/2008 5:20:49 PM

Quote :

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who: * Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or * Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or * Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime. Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense. "

Mr. Grace, I stand corrected. I read somewhere that this was only an infraction, not a federal crime. My mistake.

11/17/2008 5:21:23 PM

Quote :

"we should just get rid of them"

How do you propose to do that? Go door to door?

11/17/2008 5:22:42 PM

Quote :

""Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who: * Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or * Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or * Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime. Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense. " Mr. Grace, I stand corrected. I read somewhere that this was only an infraction, not a federal crime. My mistake."

Read that more carefully.

That only deals with ENTERING here illegally. It would be impossible for them to prove the means of how they illegally got here, which means they would never be able to prosecute under that statute. They could have easily gotten here legally, then overstayed their VISA, which wouldn't fall under that violation.

Merely BEING here illegally is only a civil offense.

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:25 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2008 5:23:00 PM

^^do you know what that little "edit button" thing is for?

^well if they have no documentation, etc, you're pretty sure of how they got here...

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:24 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2008 5:23:16 PM

^ No, you're not.

11/17/2008 5:24:18 PM

yeah, im sure thats how they got here

11/17/2008 5:24:47 PM

So just so I have this straight here.... This guy managed to obtain an actual SSN number, despite not being a citizen or having a work visa? And it was done legally?

11/17/2008 5:25:00 PM

^^^yes you are

1.) come here legally, get documentation
2.) come here illegally, have no documentation

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:25 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/17/2008 5:25:09 PM

^ read the statute more carefully

Quote :

"So just so I have this straight here.... This guy managed to obtain an actual SSN number, despite not being a citizen or having a work visa? And it was done legally?"

You need to read the original article more carefully. The DAUGHTER was BORN in the US, and thus is a US Citizen. Her SS# is valid. This is the number put on the initial mortgage application, allegedly at the advice of the real estate agent.

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:28 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2008 5:25:29 PM

Quote :

"I wish I could go back in time and not get a social security number...then all these years of paying money into the system would have come back to me"

What the hell does this even mean, and how is it relevant to this thread?

Everyone that uses a fraudulent SSN in employment still pays into the system. EVERYONE. Including ALL UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. The only thing is that they cannot possibly cash out, since their contributions go towards someone else's SSN.

Good point though. I guess. Or not.

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:30 PM. Reason : 2]

11/17/2008 5:25:32 PM

Quote :

"he shouldn't have a mortgage, but she shouldn't be exposing him just because she's a brat she's gonna get what's coming to her"

11/17/2008 5:26:10 PM

Quote :

"moron, you fucking semantics whore. get off that horse. MY ONLY POINT IS THAT THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE IN THIS COUNTRY WITH OUR CURRENT POLICIES."

Is that so? because that's not what your original post implies...

Quote :

"good for her by the way. I don't feel bad for criminals being called out"

You are saying you're glad these morally objectionable people could be forced to live in a place they haven't called home in 10 years, which is really a bitter, hateful position to take, considering they are not morally objectionable from any information noted so far. You just have a blind hatred for immigrants, it seems.

I'm sure you don't call for the book being thrown at every speeder, pot smoker, or college kid who spray paints racist and violent remarks on a wall.

11/17/2008 5:32:54 PM

what is your argument based on? fairness?


its ridiculous that you feel these people are entitled to exploit our country because they "work hard"

how do you know he worked hard? could have been a drug dealer for all you know.

11/17/2008 5:35:20 PM

if you get caught speeding, you get a ticket, the normal punishment
if you get caught with weed, well that depends on the state, etc. I think you should go to jail
if you get caught as an "undocumented immigrant" you should be sent home

Sure, some illegals do good work and stay out of trouble.

Unfortunately, many are overpopulating schools, straining the health care system, producing more work for state agencies, joining gangs (like MS-13), and are involved in an ever increasing percentage of alcohol-related crashes and violent criminal acts

11/17/2008 5:35:46 PM

I WOULD THINK SOMEONE WITH HIS ATTITUDE WOULD BE JUST FINE WITH THAT OLD LADY CALLING THE COPS ON HIM WHEN SHE THOUGHT HE STOLE THAT BEER THEN.

THIS BITCH ISN'T DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN Ragged'S "BLUE HAIR" DID SON.

11/17/2008 5:35:50 PM

i dont see the problem. dude is not a citizen.

11/17/2008 5:39:25 PM

Quote :

"You are saying you're glad these morally objectionable people could be forced to live in a place they haven't called home in 10 years, which is really a bitter, hateful position to take, considering they are not morally objectionable from any information noted so far. You just have a blind hatred for immigrants, it seems. "

by that logic, you're saying that if I break into someones house who hasn't been there in months...and continue to take up residence there...and let's say that these people automatically pay utility bills etc so I have running water, gas, etc and then 10 years later the owners move back from another house and find me there...are you saying that not only should I NOT be charged with the crime of breaking or entering, but I should also now be allowed to continue living somewhere, free of charge because now that I'm accustomed to running water it's not fair to make me go without it?

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ]

11/17/2008 5:39:26 PM

Quote :

"Sure, some most illegals do good work and stay out of trouble."

Fixed.

Quote :

"Unfortunately, many are overpopulating schools, straining the health care system, producing more work for state agencies, joining gangs (like MS-13), and are involved in an ever increasing percentage of alcohol-related crashes and violent criminal acts"

These people don't fall in to any of these categories, as far as we can tell. And they are paying their fair share of property taxes by OWNING a home, so they are entitled to the services funded by those taxes anyway. By the logic of our founding fathers, they are suffering from taxation without representation even.

Quote :

"by that logic, you're saying that if I break into someones house who hasn't been there in months...and continue to take up residence there...and let's say that these people automatically pay utility bills etc so I have running water, gas, etc and then 10 years later the owners move back from another house and find me there...are you saying that not only should I NOT be charged with the crime of breaking or entering, but I should also now be allowed to continue living somewhere, free of charge because now that I'm accustomed to running water it's not fair to make me go without it?"

Haha, this is called squatting, and in MOST places you WOULDN'T be automatically charged and forced to leave the house if you'd been there 10 years. Squatting laws are somewhat complex, so I won't go in to them, but depending on the situation, you may very well be allowed to stay in the house until you can transition to another place.


[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:46 PM. Reason : more ignorance]

11/17/2008 5:40:43 PM

N/M

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:49 PM. Reason : Double post]

11/17/2008 5:44:42 PM

There's a lot of blowhards and ideologues in this thread. Lets stick to reality here. The guy broke immigration laws in pursuit of the American dream. By this account, he sounds like a good, hardworking family man. He doesn't deserve the shit that's coming to him from this bitch, losing his job, and potentially his residence in this country. It's bullshit, just like the nonsensical call for every undocumented alien to be deported.

Luckily for this dude, our legal system provides for an appeals process which will allow him to work legally while his case takes a few years to work it's way through the immigration courts. Unfortunately, he'll have to pay a lot of legal fees and could potentially get thrown out at the end of the process.

Quote :

"by that logic, you're saying that if I break into someones house who hasn't been there in months...and continue to take up residence there...and let's say that these people automatically pay utility bills etc so I have running water, gas, etc and then 10 years later the owners move back from another house and find me there...are you saying that not only should I NOT be charged with the crime of breaking or entering, but I should also now be allowed to continue living somewhere, free of charge because now that I'm accustomed to running water it's not fair to make me go without it?"

Your analogies are terrible. The dude has been paying taxes. He's been working. At the same time he HASN'T benefited from any type of welfare, medicaid, or other direct assistance programs.

And of course the irony of this statement is that in your scenario, the person in the house would be entitled to live there for a while and potentially take ownership of the property due to our squatting laws.



[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 5:55 PM. Reason : 2]

11/17/2008 5:48:31 PM

not sure where you got your information on this guys tax paying status.

if he had a ss number, he wouldnt be ILLEGAL. he wouldnt be using his 2 year old daughters ss number.


you two have gone from defending all illegal immigrants to speaking up for this particular one.


since youre such suckers for sob stories, why dont you look up some stories of parents whose children were killed by repeat drunk drivers, who were not put away because there is no way to track them


or the many businesses they have collapsed because owners who run them legally, with legal work forces cant compete?

11/17/2008 5:58:45 PM

Quote :

"you two have gone from defending all illegal immigrants to speaking up for this particular one. "

Uhh... my goal (and i'm pretty sure PrAwn's too) wasn't to "defend all illegal immigrants." There's probably tons of illegal alien shitbags who come here to evade law enforcement from their native countries, and they should be sent to rape-you-in-the-ass prisons wherever applicable.

However, the law, and most laws in our country, are designed to be interpreted by a judge and jury to consider the CONTEXT of the situations, and there is absolutely NO REASON noted so far this particular person shouldn't be given lenience, and definitely don't deserve deportation (and I doubt this would be the outcome anyway).

11/17/2008 6:05:29 PM

i don't think that our country should strive to break up families. yay let his 1 year old daughter stay here without her parents.

but i don't know

i tend to put my morals before bright line xenophobic tests (that don't even exist, but apparently some people in here DO feel exist)

also, i would like to reiterate this (maybe people will get it the 2nd time around??? doubtful):

Quote :

"No dumbshit. They are not "criminals" as defined by the law (nor in a moral sense). The term "illegal immigrant" is something anti-immigrant people use to describe what the law refers to as "undocumented immigrants." You can deport someone for being in violation of their VISA, but they are not technically "criminals" since this is a civil offense. "

11/17/2008 6:07:17 PM

Mr Grace, it sounds like you have been reading 1 too many links from PrisonPlanet.

Although there are some problems that can be attributed to rampant, unchecked immigration, most of these problems are really due to the subversive affects of our tax and immigration laws that push these people into the fringe of society. If the DMV was realistic like the IRS, most of these aliens would have drivers licenses and car insurance. If your SSN wasn't tied in to credit cards and loans, these guys would have a traceable credit history, etc. And children born to illegal immigrants always integrate into society. Our country was founded by immigrants. You sound like a xenophobic asshole when you blame so many of society's problems on these guys.

11/17/2008 6:17:32 PM

Attn: m2c

11/17/2008 6:38:22 PM

So then we're assuming he's been taxes because we're assuming he was using a real SSN, just not his...(even though every bank, credit card, etc verifies the number...but let's again assume that somehow he managed to skate past this somehow...So anything he does with this number from then on is breaking another law...


What about when he goes to the ER because he doesn't have health insurance because that would mean he'd actually have to have real proof instead of a bogus SSN. Who is paying for that as Mr. Grace said? Who is gonna pay for the debts that his 10 year old daughter has when the accounts are charged off for non-payment?


I get that you think that it sucks and that you think she's a whore for tattle tailing on him...but one of the benefits of being a citizen is that you should have YOUR elected officials looking out for YOUR rights before those of people breaking the law and this didn't happen here.


It wasn't ONE law he broke, he broke a shit ton...knowingly....There is a REASON FOR IMMIGRATION LAWS and I don't understand why you guys are poo pooing that aside. There are enough fraudulent people that are citizens that are making the rest of us pay more money in taxes...

If this Jimenez guy had only good intentions, to work hard and aspire to have the American dream, then he WOULD have gone about it the RIGHT way, just like my family did. Even if her were a citizen, what he did with his daughter's SSN was outrageous and deceitful and seeing as how everyone here seems to be saying that for the sake of the family, they should let this guy skate clear of all wrong doing...it's going to really suck for his daughter when she's FUCKED for having bad credit courtesy of her father.

^

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 6:46 PM. Reason : ^]

11/17/2008 6:46:20 PM

my bad, i forgot i don't understand immigration law at all.

11/17/2008 6:50:55 PM

What are you apologizing for? Yours ^^^^^ was one of the best posts in this thread.

Sarcasm on your part? I'm a little slow today.

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 6:55 PM. Reason : 2]

11/17/2008 6:54:52 PM

welll....i should have put a

(but i figured the people that i wanted to get it, would get it. and you got it. )

11/17/2008 6:57:08 PM

Quote :

"Why's that? He only fucked up in putting his daughter's name on the mortgage. "

wow... its pretty obvious you know exactly why, you answered it immediately

how do you survive in the soap box?

11/17/2008 6:59:17 PM

He could have gotten the mortgage without a SSN. People do it all the time. I've got several friends who own houses without a SSN.

But I see that you failed to understand that point.

11/17/2008 7:00:29 PM

like an ITIN?

I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT OK

im just saying that youre a jackass

11/17/2008 7:02:00 PM

Quote :

"im just saying that youre a jackass"

oh, ok

Just typical chit chat bullshit.

11/17/2008 7:03:03 PM

im pretty sure fannie may 1003 requires one, but i know you can without

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO DO THIS

11/17/2008 7:03:40 PM

and yes it is typical bullshit. it looked like you were trying to argue for no reason. and that annoys me more than anything.

its obvious that he shouldnt have done what he did

but i think her "crime" was worse

11/17/2008 7:04:36 PM

god wdprice is such a douchebag

11/17/2008 7:05:16 PM

Yeah, a lot of the guys that I used to work with own homes out in Riverside. They don't have SSN's, and they sure as hell didn't put their daughter's SSN down on the mortgage. I wondered about it, and then realized that there was absolutely nothing illegal about a foreigner owning a home here.

Out in California there is a much more developed legal network for immigrants.

11/17/2008 7:06:11 PM

oh, and "i know people who do this" doesnt mean that i know mexicans ok

11/17/2008 7:06:50 PM

so to clarify, do you think that "he shouldn't have a mortgage" as you stated in your first post in this thread?

11/17/2008 7:12:00 PM