you're going to do your own maintenance? on a bmw? good luck.

11/22/2008 8:30:24 AM

Quote :

"Im willing to bet you can find a used 330 with the twin turbo charged engines for mid 20k next year. I also am willing to bet it would be faster than most of the cars mentioned in here."

But its not ///

11/22/2008 8:40:13 AM

The twin turbos are 335s, and I don't know if they'd drop that low w/in just one more year. They're a hell of a car. One of my students had an automatic 335 Monday at VIR, (first time on track, ever) and he was getting up to 135mph or so into the braking zone for 1 and roller coaster. For those of you not familiar with VIR, that's easily "hardcore" sports car territory. He had no brake fade, and with stability control on, was getting up to 95mph or so through the S' on all season run flats, non sports package, totally stock car... Scary how capable that chassis is, way more grip than one would imagine. Engin (SandSanta) in his e90 328 (I do believe he had sports pack) on decent tires feels very good, connected while remaining smooth and refined.

Nothing on that list really excites me. I'd avoid the M5 if you're on a budget. The rest are a bit more stout. If you could find a 330i sedan with ZHP, that'd probably be my choice. G35 looks good on paper, but doesn't excite me to drive like any of the other cars on that list (the 330 w/out sports pack is a bit soft and boring however).

11/22/2008 10:04:40 AM

Quote :

"I'd bet you've lost 15-20% of the HP from the original specs."

losing 60-80hp due to 9 years and 40k miles? get the fuck out. maybe if he put a little sand in with each oil change.

Quote :

"I think youre wanting an M5 just to say hey I own an M5. I liken it to all the black people buying 10 year old lexus' and renting the fucking wheels on them just so they can pimp some weak ass game about how they drive a lexus. The pragmatic choice here is a 2/3 year old G35, hands down, WHICH STILL HAS A WARRANTY. Im willing to bet you can find a used 330 with the twin turbo charged engines for mid 20k next year. I also am willing to bet it would be faster than most of the cars mentioned in here."

you've been shit on in chitchat, shit on in tech talk, don't add another section, just gtfo

11/22/2008 10:21:44 AM

Actually, looking over the prices, I'll amend my last statement, I suppose it should be possible to get a 335i for something in the mid 20s within a year.

11/22/2008 1:58:07 PM

Find an E39 M5 at a dealer..........get CPO warranty = problem solved. Anything electrical or major mechanical is covered with a $50 deductible per visit. Not sure what the criteria is to meet CPO........I know it runs out at 100,000 miles though. Not familiar enough with the sales end of the deal........so not sure if the production year has an affect. Just another thought basically......

11/23/2008 10:19:48 AM

yea, you can find a first year 335i for a little over 30k now. i just don't know if i would buy a first year model of it. from what i remember, there were a few problems that came up, yet weren't quite large scale enough to make a recall on.

11/23/2008 10:52:37 AM

Quote :

"I'd bet you've lost 15-20% of the HP from the original specs."

lol, what? This isn't the 40s/50s, engines don't lose hp over time like that if they're properly maintained. I had my car dyno'd when it was 11 years old and it put out more hp than it was rated for when new

11/23/2008 1:23:15 PM

^^You drive a 4cyl, small displacement Integra.

The more cylinders and the larger the displacement, the more wear over time will effect the engine. The problem is intensified in highly tuned engines. I'd be willing to wager you could throw almost any V8 sports car on a dyno after 10 years and will have lost ~10-15% of it's original power. Especially an M5 with 40k+ miles on it that has likely been out of warranty for years and not dealer maintained.

11/23/2008 9:33:57 PM

I'm open to seeing if that's true, but given how well engines are made these days I'm pretty doubtful of that.

11/23/2008 11:39:10 PM

noen's logic here is completely fucking retarded

11/23/2008 11:41:01 PM

I could see, maybe contending that greater honing surface area in greater displacement engines would see greater overall wear, but the fact remains that having 4 cyl or 8, the percentage of wear:time is roughly the same, no matter what the displacement coefficient is.

11/24/2008 1:06:57 AM

yeah. at BEST wear increases linerally with increased surface area of all the parts involved. but yeah.. i agree with the last two posts. noen is wrong as hell here.

11/24/2008 1:14:08 AM

i thought wear was more extensive in engines with higher compression

11/24/2008 1:24:44 AM

^^It's very possible I am wrong. I am simply basing this on literally EVERY magazine, television show, anecdotal and personal experience I've ever had with old sports cars.

I can't tell you how many times I've read/seen/watched as a 10-15 year old sports car is dyno'ed at the beginning of said article/show/story and the HP has dropped significantly from when it was new. Then the article/show/story proceeds to service/mod/fix the car to get the power back.

Hell, it may simply be a matter of new air filter, plugs and oil+filter. It doesn't change the fact that a 9 year old M5 is a money pit and a stupid buying decision for someone with such a small budget.

If he had 40k to spend, then spending 20k on a 2001 M5 would be just fine.

11/24/2008 2:22:37 AM

hopping in after the derailment to say

absolutely the M5

those things make very interesting sounds

11/24/2008 2:36:03 AM

Quote :

"I am simply basing this on literally EVERY magazine, television show, anecdotal and personal experience I've ever had with old sports cars."

You are still wrong.

11/24/2008 12:17:25 PM

this thread drank the kool aid

11/24/2008 2:25:32 PM

I love it how everyone that hasn't owned an M car knows everything about its maintenance, especially how expensive it is.

11/24/2008 2:42:59 PM

^what the hell does that even mean?

1) BMWs off warranty aren't cheap
2) $75k cars off warranty aren't cheap

Where's the misunderstanding?

11/24/2008 3:09:13 PM

^We have a winnar.

And I accept defeat

11/24/2008 5:46:27 PM

yeah, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that expensive cars are expensive to maintain.

11/24/2008 6:21:51 PM

I recently drove an '01 M5 6speed and for the 20k asking price, if that's what i was looking for, I'd own it

11/24/2008 11:43:38 PM

I absolutely love my '07 G35. I got the sport edition, with the nav package, pretty much all the way tricked out for a bit less than I would have paid for a 328, and a hell of a lot less than I would have paid for a 335.

Used will probably be about the same. Unless you absolutely must have the bimmer badge I'd highly recommend the Infiniti.

11/25/2008 12:00:44 AM

just buy a civic, with what you'll be using it for you probably wont even notice the performance difference.

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 1:21 AM. Reason : ]

11/25/2008 1:20:51 AM

Quote :

" 1) BMWs off warranty aren't cheap 2) $75k cars off warranty aren't cheap"

If you are going to let dealer or independent shop do work, yes, that's true.
If you have half a brain, can read online forums, perform simple to semi-simple DIY jobs, these cars are easy on the wallet as anything else - maintenance wise. I have spent less than $300 on maintenance parts in 4 years on 3 different M3s, two of which I still have. Obviously, I am not counting mod parts money because this is extra.

In fact, it is easier to find DIY jobs for BMW than for any of the run of the mill cars because enthusiasts actually spend time to post DIY pictures with explanation. Somebody owning a Camry will not post online how he changed water pump or lower control arm in great level of detail.

If anything the largest cost for used sporty BMWs are usually insurance, dismal gas mileage and wear items like tires. If you are idiot and buy your parts at dealer with 400% markup, you will definitely think BMW sucks ass maintenance wise.

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 1:55 AM. Reason : fsv]

11/25/2008 1:46:49 AM

you're talking about some old e36 m3's, which have ZERO bearing on this thread. e39 v8's and e46 m3's are NOT cheap to maintain.

11/25/2008 2:20:03 AM

^^For many people, their time is more valuable to them than spending it doodadding around their car.

You are also just flat wrong on this:

Quote :

"In fact, it is easier to find DIY jobs for BMW than for any of the run of the mill cars because enthusiasts actually spend time to post DIY pictures with explanation."

Damn near ANY performance car has a huge enthusiast following. Comparing the BMW material out there to a Camry is dumb.

Maintenance cost != OMG JUST DO IT YOURSELF.

^right on the money.

11/25/2008 3:10:50 AM

buy the /// its cheaper then the nissan, seriously

11/25/2008 8:02:50 AM

plus, Nissan makes some junk

11/25/2008 8:12:26 AM

Quote :

"you're talking about some old e36 m3's, which have ZERO bearing on this thread. e39 v8's and e46 m3's are NOT cheap to maintain."

jesus fucking christ, stop talking out of your ass. zero bearing??? e36 m3 parts are equal or more expensive than regular e39 5-series parts. e46 m3 parts are marginally more expensive than e36 m3 parts.

Quote :

"For many people, their time is more valuable to them than spending it doodadding around their car."

you are going off topic. you raised an issue of 9 year old BMW being expensive to maintain. whether you have time to do it is another topic. there are people who make 7 figure salaries and still enjoy to work on their car.

Quote :

"Damn near ANY performance car has a huge enthusiast following. Comparing the BMW material out there to a Camry is dumb"

camry is not a performance car. BMW are more likely to get tracked, owners are more likely to break parts and fix parts by themselves. enthusiast online community is more coherent than online forums of an average econo box.

11/25/2008 10:13:47 PM

why is cost of maintenance even a question? if you are buying an m3 or m5 expect to pay $$, whether you are doing the jobs yourself or not. however it is significantly cheaper if you are diy.

examples: (e46 m3)

oil changes cost about 80-90 depending on where you get the oil. (10W60 = dealers or online only) speced oil changes is 15k, however most owners do it 7.5k If you pay the dealer its going to be over 120 easy.

tires last about 10kish. they will cost around 800 to over 1k depending on brand, then add in alignment and balance (bmw's will cost more for these services as well)

the valve adjustment every 50kish can cost over 500 by itself. If you do it yourself the replacement shim kit is still pretty expensive. I think over 100 from stealer. And the job is pretty much an all weekend event.

parts, well its a bmw.......don't expect them to be that cheap

tranny fluid, well you can get away with redline or RP...personally i use the OEM formula.

diff fluid, you should buy the bmw formula (the LSD has been known to make odd noises if not on BMW juice). They have changed this formula a couple times, and spent quite a bit of R&D on this. These are $$ from the dealer..


These are just a few examples.......there's nothing worse than buying a nice car and then realizing you can't maintain it.

11/26/2008 12:01:06 AM

Quote :

"you're talking about some old e36 m3's, which have ZERO bearing on this thread. e39 v8's and e46 m3's are NOT cheap to maintain."

lol, I couldn't help but laugh (in agreement).

11/26/2008 12:41:38 AM

^^my point exactly. If he has 20k to spend, he should be finding a 15k M5, to keep some money back for the inevitable maintenance a 9 year old car is going to require.

and ^^^ dont be stupid, I'm not telling the guy to go buy a camry or econo box.

I think a NEWER, less exotic sport sedan would suit him MUCH better in the long run. Just my 2 cents

11/26/2008 6:25:46 AM

save 5 grand, save it for repairs, go ///

11/26/2008 7:29:09 AM

this is great! exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to hear.... im not being sarcastic at all!

11/28/2008 12:29:16 AM

I would save up and buy a Porsche

11/28/2008 8:48:40 AM

330i/330ci

I shopped these same cars (except I didn't look at M5s, and I mostly considered G35 coupes). I ended up with a 330ci w/sport package...sold it after 3 months for a more serious sporting machine (Evo IX). Still think that the 330 is the best sporty daily driver around for the money (the M3 is sweet, but not worth the money unless you're going to track it, and then you're looking at C6 'Vette money, or Evo IX with money leftover).

If you aren't going to track it, I'd get the 330, or even an E46 325 or something if you can get one for substantially less money. If you plan on tracking it, wait around until you find a 330 with the ZHP package, or go ahead and ante up for the M3.


This, of course, assumes that you make enough $ and have enough $ put away to be buying cars like this. Most people buy more car than they should.

11/28/2008 6:47:20 PM

the e46 m3 is cheaper then some of the 330 zhps i have seen

11/28/2008 9:55:08 PM

My cousin just bought the 335 twin turbo BMW hardtop convertible.

Jesus that thing is fucking sweet.

11/30/2008 8:43:28 PM

///M3 brother, just say no to SMG

12/4/2008 9:39:43 PM