Too bad records aren't used in stats either. Quit being a homer.

11/25/2008 12:23:25 PM

Quote :

"And honestly...Eli's stats aren't that much worse than Rivers. He's got less yards and TDs...but he also throws less...which leads to less INTs of course. When there isn't that much of a disparity between stats...you have to look at the HUGE disparity in records. Sorry...but you've got to let-go of the State bias."

Rivers is 18th in the NFL in passing attempts per game. #1 in NFL with 8.6 yards per completion.

Eli is 16th. Eli only averages 6.8 yards per completion.

There goes your he throws more arguement.

11/25/2008 12:25:05 PM

Quote :

"And honestly...Eli's stats aren't that much worse than Rivers. He's got less yards and TDs...but he also throws less...which leads to less INTs of course. When there isn't that much of a disparity between stats...you have to look at the HUGE disparity in records. Sorry...but you've got to let-go of the State bias."

False. Rivers has 6 more completions in 10 fewer attempts. 5 more TDs in 10 fewer attempts. About 500 more yards in 10 fewer attempts.

Rivers leads the league in yards per attempt, touchdowns, and passer rating. The only person you could argue as to having a better season is Brees.

11/25/2008 12:26:32 PM

Too bad football is a TEAM sport and Eli has a better TEAM. It's not River's fault that the defense can't fucking stop anyone (not even TYLER FUCKING THIGPEN). The offense has done enough to win 5 games, but the defense couldn't hold up their end. The Buffalo game however, is on Rivers. He had 2 critical TOs including 1 in the endzone. However, its not like Eli hasn't caused his team to lose a game this year (Browns)

11/25/2008 12:28:23 PM

Alright...lets be nitpicky.

I can play this game too...hey...maybe if Rivers had a better running game he wouldn't have to throw it 15 yards downfield to make a first down...or throw for a TD on the 3 yard line instead of hand it off to Brandon Jacobs. Eli makes less mistakes...Rivers has a higher interception percentage compared to Eli.

Give it a rest and quit making excuses.

Take off your red-tinted glasses and admit that overall, Eli is the better QB right now. He wins games and doesn't make mistakes anymore. And now he's actually starting to make big plays.

11/25/2008 12:30:54 PM

Rivers leads the league in being an effective QB

should russel wilson be nominated for the heisman?

11/25/2008 12:31:34 PM

Quote :

"And now he's actually starting to make big plays."

Good thing Rivers hasn't been doing that for years.....

Did Phil fuck your girl or something?

11/25/2008 12:32:31 PM

Quote :

"should russel wilson be nominated for the heisman?"

Yes!

11/25/2008 12:34:10 PM

Coming into Week 12, according to Football Outsiders, there are only 3 QBs who rank in the top 5 in both DYAR, YAR, & QB DVOA:
Warner (1,1,1)
Brees (2,3,3)
Rivers (5,4,2)

Any top 10 list of mine (for this season) would have to start the same way. Though after this weekend's performances, I see Brees jumping ahead of Warner by a touch


Eli, since his name seems to be arrising some interest in here, ranks 10,8,10 in these stats.
Roethlisberger = 35,29,33

11/25/2008 12:41:30 PM

Quote :

"Did Phil fuck your girl or something?"

Did Phil fuck you??

I'm honestly a big Rivers fan...and up until this year have always thought he was the better QB than Eli. And I fucking hate Eli. Even to make it personal, I root against him even more because an ex-girlfriend of mine was close friends with his wife at Ole Miss and was in his wedding (and I have bad relations with this ex).

But this NC State homerism is ridiculous. Eli is not making mistakes (and Philip still is) and can now actually carry his team if he has to. I've actually been watching his games this year, and Eli is a fucking good quarterback. I watch Rivers every week hoping he can lead the Chargers to a win...but he keeps coming up short. And quit putting the blame on other aspects of the Chargers team...Rivers came up empty in the third quarter against the Colts when his team really needed a TD...and he's done that numerous times this year. I don't care how many strong statistical games he's had this year...he hasn't come through when its counted.

So get off of Rivers' dick and try to be objective for a second.

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2008 12:41:33 PM

Eli is benefiting from the best running attack in the league, as well as a top-5 defense to keep him from having to play catch-up. And you know what? He has been very good this year. He has surprised me and picked up where he left off in the playoffs last year.

But Phil has been better. His stats are outstanding, and he has done it without ANY help from Ladainian Tomlinson or that crappy defense. Say what you want about turnovers, Phil has consistently been put in terrible situations this year and for the most part, he has been incredible all season long.

I'd take Phil over Eli in a heartbeat, and I wouldn't think twice about it.

11/25/2008 12:44:57 PM

Chicks Dig The Long Ball (40+)
1. D. Brees
2. T. Romo
3. P. Rivers
3. A. Rodgers
5. D. McNabb
5. K. Warner
7. M. Bulger
7. B. Favre
7. G. Frerotte
7. M. Ryan

Eli has 1 lonely 40+ pass


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2008&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH&d-447263-n=1

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2008 12:45:18 PM

Quote :

"I don't care how many strong statistical games he's had this year...he hasn't come through when its counted."

QB DVOA = Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations (Rivers, again coming into this past week's games, ranked 2nd in the NFL in this statistic...Not sure he did well enough to overtake Warner, but I believe Brees may have done enough to jump over at least 1 of them)

11/25/2008 12:48:01 PM

1) Ryan Leaf
2) Mike McMahon
3) Spergon Wynn
4) Chris Weinke
5) Cade McNown
6) David Carr
7) Rich Gannon
8) Cleo Lemon
9) Lance Moore (his throw last night)
10) Phillip Rivers

I win, these guys rock

Quote :

"So get off of Rivers' dick and try to be objective for a second"

~amen
fuck the chargers


[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 1:02 PM. Reason : syoBsehcuoTpillihP]

11/25/2008 12:52:06 PM

Yeah guys, be objective and throw stats out the window.

Let's look at it realistically and consider the QB responsible for every win and every loss.


^ Fail, you clearly didn't read the criteria on the first post

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2008 12:52:08 PM

if C is code for G "Rich Cannon" won an NFL MVP

however c/=g

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 12:56 PM. Reason : code clarification]

11/25/2008 12:55:57 PM

Quote :

"QB DVOA = Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations"

This interests me. Is this explained in more detail somewhere else??

Quote :

"Yeah guys, be objective and throw stats out the window. Let's look at it realistically and consider the QB responsible for every win and every loss."

Nobody is throwing stats out the window. It's not like we're comparing Rivers to Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. Rivers isn't killing Eli in stats. However...Eli is killing Rivers in results. And I'm not saying Eli is head and shoulders above Rivers right now and that Rivers will never be a better QB than Eli. But right now, he's slightly ahead of him.

11/25/2008 12:56:04 PM

^footballoutsiders.com

11/25/2008 12:57:20 PM

Eli has too good of a team around him to say he is a better QB than Rivers this year

pull both qbs off both teams and the Giants with David Carr will still beat the Chargers with Billy Volek

therefor STATS play.

esp the Defense adjusted blah blah blah over average

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2008 12:59:56 PM

AndyMac WTF are you talking about? These are the best qbs to live... you fail

11/25/2008 1:01:26 PM

PRiv #1

11/25/2008 1:02:20 PM

That place is garbage and so are all chargers fans (SD)

Im from ECU, I hate the Jaguars and the Titans. Norv Turner looks like his face was peeled off at the age of 9 and Merriman looks like a juiced up beast man


* dont bring up stats bc homeboy jh51085 will stat your fucking faces off, he is the jesus of predictions

11/25/2008 1:09:58 PM

Quote :

"AndyMac WTF are you talking about? These are the best qbs to live... you fail"

They may very well be the greatest of all time

But the first post clearly states you must select "Active NFL QBs"

11/25/2008 1:22:54 PM

Romo > Big Ben


agreed????

11/25/2008 2:38:24 PM

Quote :

"Romo > Big Ben "

Let's fix that inequality.

11/25/2008 2:40:46 PM

1) Kerry Collins
2) Kerry Collins
3) Kerry Collins
4) Kerry Collins
5) Kerry Collins
6) Kerry Collins
7) Kerry Collins
8) Kerry Collins
9) Kerry Collins
10) Kerry Collins

11/25/2008 2:40:59 PM

At least there's no Cutler being mentioned here.

11/25/2008 2:44:03 PM

nvm

[Edited on November 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM. Reason : ]

11/25/2008 5:48:45 PM

FUCK

THIS

THREAD

11/25/2008 5:54:39 PM

^your QB must suck

11/26/2008 8:26:45 AM

Quote :

"Alright...lets be nitpicky. I can play this game too...hey...maybe if Rivers had a better running game he wouldn't have to throw it 15 yards downfield to make a first down...or throw for a TD on the 3 yard line instead of hand it off to Brandon Jacobs. Eli makes less mistakes...Rivers has a higher interception percentage compared to Eli. Give it a rest and quit making excuses."

hey look, we can turn that around too! Eli's offense is more open because they have a better run game. Rivers is going up against teams knowing that the offense is going to have to flow through Rivers and playing that way as opposed to having to really watch both the pass and run for Eli's team.




I think the argument is silly. Personally Rivers has looked better to me this year, but I am not going to sit here and argue over it.

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 8:37 AM. Reason : ]

11/26/2008 8:36:21 AM

Rivers would also have 2 less Ints if Vincent Jackson wasn't a dumb ass ( Pittsburgh and KC)

11/26/2008 9:34:26 AM

And one interception to Chambers should actually have been a fumble.

It should actually have been a regular completed pass, since his knee was down when the defender pulled the ball away. But if they were going to screw up the call anyway you could at least expect them to get it somewhat accurate.

This was against Buffalo. When the power was mysteriously out, so it couldn't be reviewed.

11/26/2008 1:17:30 PM

Quote :

"Rivers would also have 2 less Ints if Vincent Jackson wasn't a dumb ass ( Pittsburgh and KC)"

and

Quote :

"And one interception to Chambers should actually have been a fumble."

Come the fuck on guys...half the interceptions in the league are like this...bobbled passes, WRs fucking up routes....you can't be serious.

Quote :

"Personally Rivers has looked better to me this year, but I am not going to sit here and argue over it."

How many people here have watched as many Eli games as they have Rivers' anyways?? Most of the experts that watch both of them always put Eli ahead of Rivers...but wait, my bad...media bias...carry on.

11/26/2008 1:33:13 PM

Half of the interceptions are actually completed passes that get ripped away after the receiver is down, and an easy review and overturn is impossible because the power is out in the stadium?

I'm not complaining about the ones to jackson, tip balls are a part of life.

Quote :

"How many people here have watched as many Eli games as they have Rivers' anyways?? Most of the experts that watch both of them always put Eli ahead of Rivers...but wait, my bad...media bias...carry on."

http://profootball.scout.com/2/804894.html

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2008 1:40:57 PM

I have probably seen them play about the same number of games each this year..unfortunately it hasnt been that many (say 4 each or so) since I dont get the chargers on tv so I havent seen a fair comparison perhaps. But Eli didnt look like he was clearly better on the field during actual gameplay and then on top of that you have the stats. For me to say someone is clearly better despite stats, I need to see a bigger difference during actual gameplay imo.

In conclusion, their in game play has been fairly even and competitive and Rivers holds the edge in nearly all the "important" stats. On the other hand of course Eli's record is a lot stronger so I can see people falling either way.

11/26/2008 1:46:44 PM

^^

Quote :

"Most"

Ugh...fuck this. I should have known not to argue that Philip Rivers isn't the second coming of Jesus on an NC State message board.

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2008 2:00:24 PM

link?

11/26/2008 2:02:14 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3594747

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 2:12 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2008 2:04:36 PM

LOL Big Ben.

That was also before the season, I'm pretty much counting only this season.

Eli obviously had a better year last year than Rivers.

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 2:11 PM. Reason : http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/steelers_coach_mike_tomlin <- yes I know this is fake]

11/26/2008 2:08:09 PM

Quote :

"I'm pretty much counting only this season."

Well I'm only gonna count that one week where Philip had a shitty game and Eli had a good one.... I've been arguing them "overall" this whole time. Good to know that you're now just counting this season.

And Big Ben has probably had one of the shittiest o-lines in the league this year. He's playing banged up and still having solid games and leading his team to wins (unlike Philip). Philip is still having a better year than Big Ben...but Ben still has a SB, a better team this year (with a shitty o-line and worse receivers), and a better career.

And I've got to listen to myself...I'm seriously done arguing this shit.

11/26/2008 2:12:21 PM

I said it in my first post of the thread

Quote :

"ranking right now, based on this year 1. Warner 2. Brees 3. Rivers 4. Favre 5. P. Manning 6. Romo 7. Garcia 8. E. Manning 9. Ryan 10. Cassel If it was 3 weeks ago McNabb would have been #5 or so"

11/26/2008 2:15:25 PM

Quote :

"Rivers came up empty in the third quarter against the Colts when his team really needed a TD...and he's done that numerous times this year. I don't care how many strong statistical games he's had this year...he hasn't come through when its counted."

He's had a couple 4th quarter drives that would have won the game for him if his defensive counterpart could stop someone in the last two minutes of the game...

Quote :

"In conclusion, their in game play has been fairly even and competitive and Rivers holds the edge in nearly all the "important" stats. On the other hand of course Eli's record is a lot stronger so I can see people falling either way. for record having any indication of being a better player"

11/26/2008 2:17:03 PM

If i was going to start a team from nothing, Matt Ryan would be my #1 pick.

11/26/2008 2:56:41 PM

Quote :

"He's had a couple 4th quarter drives that would have won the game for him if his defensive counterpart could stop someone in the last two minutes of the game..."

exactly. the only time the chargers have won this year have been when they score 28 points or more, and they've still managed to lose two other games when they do score that much, including that 38-39 loss in denver. rivers has had a good season. the chargers as a whole have not. the defense sucks, tomlinson is not playing well, and they let the backup RB go. if you want to blame the loss to indy on someone do it on the coach who took a timeout during that last drive allowing manning and co. that much more time to get down the field.

i love how a couple of years ago it was "tomlinson and the chargers" no matter how good rivers did. but now when tomlinson isn't performing as well it's river's fault that the chargers are losing.

11/26/2008 5:00:59 PM

1. Brees
2. Eli
3. Ryan
4. Payton
5. Warner
6. Rodgers
7. Garcia
8. Rivers
9. Ben
10. Romo

11/26/2008 8:03:28 PM

What?

Ryan at #3?

Walter Payton?

11/26/2008 8:09:00 PM

Quote :

"And Big Ben has probably had one of the shittiest o-lines in the league this year. He's playing banged up and still having solid games and leading his team to wins (unlike Philip). Philip is still having a better year than Big Ben...but Ben still has a SB, a better team this year (with a shitty o-line and worse receivers), and a better career."

Probably not many that know football would say Big Ben has been better than Phil.

Marcus McNeil was out this year and Phil's line hasn't exactly been stellar.

It's not like Byron Leftwich didn't win using this same Pittsburgh team.

11/27/2008 10:14:33 PM

wow......

about 18% of the people that have posted in this thread know what the fuck they're talking about. Big Ben a better QB? Holy shit, Rivers has been a Top 5 QB in the league this year. He has no o-line, no running game and no defense, yet is putting up some of the best #'s in the league.

There are times when you can be a homer, and there are times when the numbers back up your argument. Eli? are you fucking serious? He FINALLY gets what the Giants need him to do. Get the ball to burress and don't turn it over so our running game can grind out the NFC games. THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM A BETTER QUARTERBACK. That just means in his 4+ years in the league, hes FINALLY figured out what the fuck he needs to do, which is NOT FUCK IT UP FOR THE REST OF THE TEAM. Rivers, on the other hand, is having to try and win games single handedly behind one of the worst O-lines in the AFC. Rivers will make the pro bowl. Manning more than likely will as well. Who gives a fuck. The Giants are a good team, the Chargers are a not so good team.

11/27/2008 10:35:30 PM

In their defense, the Chargers line is pretty decent at pass blocking. Sometimes they screw up and let someone go completely free, which is what caused that fumble on sunday when the lineman completely whiffed on his block. Normally Rivers gets protection though.

What they are terrible at is run blocking. They can't open a hole for shit.

11/27/2008 10:42:22 PM