I'm Big Business and i condoned the use of page 2.

12/3/2008 12:09:21 AM

Quote :

"If you're a sub volunteer, you get sub pay all the time, regardless of whether your stationed on a sub."

That is fucking bullshit.

That is like paying people jump pay just because they graduated Airborne school or flight pay even if they're not currently rated.

12/3/2008 12:14:02 AM

haha, yeah Sub is when you are on Sub status (or whatever the fuck they call it).

But I think someone was talking about the Nuclear Officer retention bonus, which is payed to any qualified officer even if they aren't attached to a sub/nuke unit at the time (like if they are teaching).

12/3/2008 12:17:54 AM

Quote :

"Then, you make several statements which show you are totally ignorant:"

Barring the mistake of listing E-0 as a rank, please tell me what part of the post is ignorant. You are awarded rank in the Air Force at the enlisted level depending on how many hours of college you have completed. Otherwise you come in at E-1. An associates degree will earn you E-4 IIRC.

A LOT of people could claim they make 100k a year if their company gave them money to pay for their mortgage and food on top of their salary.

Quote :

"Feel free to call it what you want. Thank you for your excellent definiteion of what you think income is. If money is coming in, it's income."

No, not according to the government.

Quote :

"FYI, all jobs include cost-of-living in their salaries under various names or under no name. It's all compensation just the same."

Not in the same manner as the military does, though. Im not aware of any company that gives a portion of your salary tax free to use toward your mortgage.

Quote :

"That is fucking bullshit. That is like paying people jump pay just because they graduated Airborne school or flight pay even if they're not currently rated."

Exactly what I was thinking. Like being paid hazardous duty pay when your stateside.



[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 12:23 AM. Reason : .]

12/3/2008 12:21:11 AM

^^ I have no problem with retention bonuses, just special duty pay for doing decidedly non-special things; like teaching ROTCnazis how to be good little cogs in the military-industrial complex.

12/3/2008 12:21:12 AM

Quote :

"That is fucking bullshit. That is like paying people jump pay just because they graduated Airborne school or flight pay even if they're not currently rated."

You, my good friend, can go fuck yourself.

The 3 years I just spent on a sub were the hardest 3 years of my life. No communication with my family most of the time. No sunlight. 150 of the same guys. Making decisions that, for real, could mean life or death. Averaging 4 hours of sleep per day. Missing the last 2 Christmases and Thanksgivings, not to mention other holidays.

I am sorry if it bothers you that I still get paid $705 a month for the time I spent away from my family and the years of my life I lost (both literally and probably to come from stress).

12/3/2008 12:28:00 AM

Do you need a hug?

12/3/2008 12:39:47 AM

chair force?

12/3/2008 12:50:38 AM

you seriously think they're gonna offer you e-4 for an associate's degree?

they'd have to start people with a BS at MSgt...

[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 1:23 AM. Reason : btw, to the OP, seems that they're offering loan repayment up to $10g these days]

12/3/2008 1:20:38 AM

Quote :

"you seriously think they're gonna offer you e-4 for an associate's degree?"

I said IIRC you can make E-4. The details are fuzzy cause I havent had to worry about a rank that low in more than 5 years. In the AF you have to wait 36 months TIS, 20 months TIG @ A1C before you can make E-4, unless you get it BTZ. An associates or Bachelors will earn you E-3, in fact it doesnt even take that much.

Completion of three years of Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (JROTC), completion of two years of Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC), the General Billy Mitchell Award in Civil Air Patrol, completion of 45 or more college credit hours, obtaining an Eagle Scout or Gold Scout award, you automatic rank of E-3, Airman First Class. Refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airman_First_Class


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_(rank)
In the Army a Bachelors degree prior to enlistment will earn you an automatic rank of E-4. An associates will earn you E-3.



[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 1:44 AM. Reason : .]

12/3/2008 1:40:18 AM

Quote :

"The 3 years I just spent on a sub were the hardest 3 years of my life. No communication with my family most of the time. No sunlight. 150 of the same guys. Making decisions that, for real, could mean life or death. Averaging 4 hours of sleep per day. Missing the last 2 Christmases and Thanksgivings, not to mention other holidays."

Are you for real? You think this is different than being deployed for 15 months in Iraq/Afghanistan how exactly?

I just checked for shits and giggles, and if you aren't attached to a Sub unit, or in training for one etc, you shouldn't be receiving Sub pay.

12/3/2008 1:44:45 AM

hmm, it's kinda odd for it to top out after 45 semester hours, esp since e-4 isn't an nco--almost seems like they're trying to attract the college dropouts

12/3/2008 1:58:06 AM

^^ Yup.

Quote :

"hmm, it's kinda odd for it to top out after 45 semester hours, esp since e-4 isn't an nco--almost seems like they're trying to attract the college dropouts"

In the Air Force E-4 is NOT an NCO. E-5, SSgt is an NCO.

I think the AF is the only branch like that though, so I can assume its a pretty common misconception.

12/3/2008 2:19:08 AM

i thought that's what i said...

12/3/2008 2:20:11 AM

oh shit, my bad. you are correct.

Its too early and statistics is killing me. Time for bed.

12/3/2008 2:20:55 AM

Quote :

"Are you for real? You think this is different than being deployed for 15 months in Iraq/Afghanistan how exactly? "

Not at all. When did I ever say that being deployed in the Middle East was easy? I don't recall ever doing so. As a matter of fact, I think soldiers and marines in combat zones are extremely underpaid. I think they should be receiving lots of $$ from the government, not the millionaire execs at lenders and auto companies.

That being said, I have several friends who I went to high school with and I still keep in contact with who are in the Army, and they say it isn't all that bad over there. They pretty much stand watch, and then have the rest of the time to exercise or get on the internet. They have lots of communications with their families, and they generally get plenty of sleep. Additionally, their pay is tax free, so that's another "perk". Regardless, I don't think I would ever want to do something like that. I'm sure the fear of getting suicide bombed or sniped is always in the back of their minds.

The basic gist of my post was whoever the fuck posted about military pay and people not deserving it has a lot of audacity. I can tell you the reason I get paid so much is that a) the job is pretty fucking hard and b) the Navy cannot get people to stay beyond one tour because most people hate it/can't take it. The toll the military takes on people AND their families cannot be put into words, and the little faggots who sit behind their keyboards and try to justify how much they think we should get paid make me sick.

And lastly, to put an end to the sub pay question:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/fy2008paycharts/a/subpayoff.htm

Read #4 and #7:

4. While undergoing rehabilitation after assignment to a nuclear-powered submarine; or

7. While receiving instruction to prepare for a position of increased responsibility on a submarine.

I can assure you #4 applies, and I imagine he is probably pursuing a master's degree, which will be an aide to him on his department head tour (ie one of increased responsibility).

So once again, go fuck yourself. If you have such a problem with military pay, go talk to the Marines stationed at the NCSU. I'm sure you'll find what they have to say enlightening.

12/3/2008 2:26:11 AM

AngryPotato is angry

this could get interesting

12/3/2008 2:34:42 AM

Quote :

"The basic gist of my post was whoever the fuck posted about military pay and people not deserving it has a lot of audacity. "

It would benefit you to actually re-read the thread and figure out exactly who it was that said that. In the meantime there are quite a few of us laughing at you.

I find it interesting that a 100K a year Naval Officer busted out about.com to reference a policy instead of an official navy website. I can pick apart a ton of usmilitary.about.com articles and show just how inaccurate they are.

Quote :

"So once again, go fuck yourself. If you have such a problem with military pay, go talk to the Marines stationed at the NCSU."

Do I HAVE to talk to the Marines? I mean, if I wanted to be a Marine I would have scored lower on my ASVAB.



Otherwise... LOL U MAD?

[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 2:45 AM. Reason : .]

12/3/2008 2:40:47 AM

Quote :

"You, my good friend, can go fuck yourself."

Wow. I'm sensing some serious unresolved anger issues here.

So let me get this straight, you volunteered go on sub duty. You're actually on a sub 3 years out of 11. You've lived in Orlando, Charleston, Seattle, NY, Connecticut, and Raleigh. You don't get shot at (having a job that might be dangerous because you make mistakes is different from having a job that is dangerous because other people are trying to kill you), and you think you're entitled to nearly three times the Imminent Danger Pay that Marines, or Soldiers, or Seabees receive? While you're not even at sea?

No disrespect to submariners but please, get over yourself. It'd be nice if Soldiers and Marines received combat pay while resetting from a deployment or preparing for the next one, I don't see that happening.

12/3/2008 7:20:47 AM

Quote :

"It would benefit you to actually re-read the thread and figure out exactly who it was that said that. In the meantime there are quite a few of us laughing at you."

That would be JCASHFAN and yourself. One who has never served a day of his life in the military, and the other (yourself) who has proven himself time and time again to be a moronic toolbag.

Quote :

"I find it interesting that a 100K a year Naval Officer busted out about.com to reference a policy instead of an official navy website. I can pick apart a ton of usmilitary.about.com articles and show just how inaccurate they are."

Is this really the best you can come up with? That article is accurate. I have read several and they all say the same thing. Any "official" site you nor I would most likely have access to from a home computer. Seriously, you're wrong about this. Deal with it.

Quote :

"Do I HAVE to talk to the Marines? I mean, if I wanted to be a Marine I would have scored lower on my ASVAB."

Once again showing your ignorance. Perhaps not all Marines are smart, but I promise you there are many smart Marines, smarter than you or myself (and I did score a 97 on the ASVAB when I took it... whoop de doo). And after the brief interactions I've had with Marines and Air Force personnel, I would much prefer to serve with the average Marine.

Quote :

"So let me get this straight, you volunteered go on sub duty. You're actually on a sub 3 years out of 11. You've lived in Orlando, Charleston, Seattle, NY, Connecticut, and Raleigh. You don't get shot at (having a job that might be dangerous because you make mistakes is different from having a job that is dangerous because other people are trying to kill you), and you think you're entitled to nearly three times the Imminent Danger Pay that Marines, or Soldiers, or Seabees receive? While you're not even at sea? "

No that's not what I said. I said my last 3 years were on a sub. I mentioned nothing about the previous 8. For enlisted personnel the average sea duty/shore duty rotation is 4yrs/3yrs, and for officers it's 3yrs/2yrs. And as I said, I think Marines and Army people are way underpaid. Keep going though. You seem pretty smart, and you also seem to have much insight regarding a job that I am willing to bet you couldn't handle for a month.

Quote :

"No disrespect to submariners but please, get over yourself. It'd be nice if Soldiers and Marines received combat pay while resetting from a deployment or preparing for the next one, I don't see that happening."

You keep bringing this up like I disagree. Once again, I agree with you that soldiers and Marines are underpaid.

12/3/2008 10:10:34 AM

Quote :

"That would be JCASHFAN and yourself. One who has never served a day of his life in the military, and the other (yourself) who has proven himself time and time again to be a moronic toolbag."

Show me exactly where I said that. When you do Im afraid someone other than me will end up being the "moronic toolbag".

Oh and for the record, my ex girlfriends have swallowed more of my intellect than you could ever project on this board, especially through the use of 4 letter words and unresolved mommy issues.

Quote :

"Any "official" site you nor I would most likely have access to from a home computer. Seriously, you're wrong about this. Deal with it."

Uh, no. But just to go with the flow on this moronic toolbag accusation, how about you visit http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/ from your home computer. It works properly no? Right.

Official policies arent classified, and are publicly available. I really doubt you want to get in to a sparring match with me on this. You will lose, and poorly at that.

Quote :

"Once again showing your ignorance. Perhaps not all Marines are smart, but I promise you there are many smart Marines, smarter than you or myself (and I did score a 97 on the ASVAB when I took it... whoop de doo). And after the brief interactions I've had with Marines and Air Force personnel, I would much prefer to serve with the average Marine."

For you to be so smart your sarcasm meter is broke as fuck.

[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 11:38 AM. Reason : .]

12/3/2008 11:35:42 AM

Just FYI, pilots get flight pay regardless of if they are in a command that flies.

Also, when I was with the submarine and deployed I used to get sea pay and hazardous duty pay with all of my income tax free for the 5 months we were in the Gulf.

Quote :

"I can assure you #4 applies, and I imagine he is probably pursuing a master's degree, which will be an aide to him on his department head tour (ie one of increased responsibility)."

I'm working on my M.S. in Nuclear Engineering and will be going back to a submarine as a department head next year.

Just incase you're curious my taxable income last year was barely over 100k. That's what's on my W-2 and that's why I didn't get the stimulus check.

[Edited on December 3, 2008 at 11:40 AM. Reason : yep]

12/3/2008 11:38:17 AM

Quote :

"That would be JCASHFAN and yourself. One who has never served a day of his life in the military"

lawls.


^ Army aviators maintain flight pay only if they maintain their rating and minimum hours. The hours vary with airframe, but you have to pull so many simulator hours and so many flight hours to keep that pay.

12/3/2008 12:32:09 PM

Quick! Someone give AngryPotato a nipple to suck on!

Apparently he didnt do so long enough when he was an infant.

12/3/2008 12:52:11 PM

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07a_23.pdf

12/3/2008 5:27:23 PM

Thank you.

12/3/2008 6:08:58 PM

Quote :

"Oh and for the record, my ex girlfriends have swallowed more of my intellect than you could ever project on this board, especially through the use of 4 letter words and unresolved mommy issues."

dude, you're doing it all wrong.

i know you're trying to pwn everyone but you're putting WAY too much effort into it, and honestly looking like a toolbag. just fyi

12/3/2008 7:21:57 PM

oh and i just read the thread. you're wrong on all kinds of "points" and obviously trolling.

i suggest you find a new thread to post in.

12/3/2008 7:54:52 PM

i never realized wut trolled this hard

apparently so though

12/3/2008 7:56:15 PM

I only started trolling when super navy officer started singing from his perch.

12/4/2008 12:22:03 AM

i toured a sub and dear jesus it was one of the saddest places ive seen. you dont have your own bed. 140 guys share one shower and two toilets. you work all the time. you come inches from being crushed at the bottom of the ocean. you dont see the sun for weeks at a time. your cuts dont heal because the air is so thin.

12/4/2008 7:43:42 AM

GO SURFACE NAVY

12/4/2008 8:50:10 AM

Quote :

"i toured a sub and dear jesus it was one of the saddest places ive seen. you dont have your own bed. 140 guys share one shower and two toilets. you work all the time. you come inches from being crushed at the bottom of the ocean. you dont see the sun for weeks at a time. your cuts dont heal because the air is so thin."

Ok, a few things need to get straightened out. As an officer you have your own bed. Only the most junior enlisted personnel have to "hot rack."

As an officer you will share 1 urinal, 1 toilet, and 1 shower with approximately 15 people.
As an enlisted guy you will share 2 urinals, 4 toilets, and 4 showers with approximately 100 people.
As a chief you'll share 1 toilet and 1 shower with about 15 people.

If you're the CO or XO you share a bathroom with each other.

You can see the sun at least once a day, but it will be through the periscope.

You do work a lot, but so does everyone in the military.

As far as the inches from being crushed at the bottom of the ocean, that's just ignorant.

However, cuts do tend to take longer to heal because of a slightly lower oxygen content.

12/4/2008 10:14:54 PM

don't forget the rousing aroma of amine

12/4/2008 10:18:43 PM

I got a question, I am 32, been out of college for 3 years, and have a BS in Microbiology, can I get into officer school in any branch? I have always really thought about the Service, and I really kinda want to do it, but I guess I'm probably too old to be considered for an Officer position

Also, has anyone here every thought about joining Blackwater?

[Edited on December 5, 2008 at 9:12 AM. Reason : /]

12/5/2008 9:10:47 AM

I believe you have to be younger than 36 to be commissioned but it depends on what branch and what designator you would go into. I'm not exactly sure though.

12/5/2008 10:21:55 AM

I was just looking at the Air Force website and I see they like scientists.

12/5/2008 10:24:57 AM

I used to be in charge of the commissioning programs that guys applied to who were enlisted. I know in the Navy alone there were many many different fields, and all had different age requirements (as well as many other requirements). The best advice I can give you there is first figure out exactly the kinds of things you'd be interested in doing, and then stop by a recruiting office and they'll be able to at least point you down the right path. I am fairly certain you should be able to get a commission in some branch doing something if that's what you really want.

12/5/2008 10:29:18 AM

Yeah, I just can't see myself in the Service as an NCO. And, I would like to be involved in something with health care or scientific.

12/5/2008 10:31:50 AM

Yes you'd be cheating yourself if you have a degree and you simply enlisted. There's nothing wrong with being enlisted (I used to be too) but all the time you spent getting your degree would be pretty pointless.

12/5/2008 10:36:15 AM

Lt. Seedless

Hut!

12/5/2008 10:39:59 AM

Quote :

"A LOT of people could claim they make 100k a year if their company gave them money to pay for their mortgage and food on top of their salary."

lol

12/5/2008 3:54:15 PM

Quote :

"A LOT of people could claim they make 100k a year if their company gave them money to pay for their mortgage and food on top of their salary. "

No company I'm aware of structures pay like that. If you come home with $100,000/year, you made $100,000 that year, as far as I am concerned. The more reasonable way to look at it is that a lot of people in civilian jobs would have much lower incomes if they subtracted what they spend on housing and food to figure up their gross income.

Furthermore, in the military, the tax advantages make it effectively even more, so that makes it even sillier to take the position that you're taking.

Quote :

"In the Air Force E-4 is NOT an NCO. E-5, SSgt is an NCO. I think the AF is the only branch like that though, so I can assume its a pretty common misconception. "

E-4 is an NCO rank in the USMC. It can be either NCO (Corporal) or junior enlisted (Specialist) in the Army. In the Navy, it's 3rd Class Petty Officer, which is their equivalent of an NCO.

I'm not aware of just being flat-out awarded higher ranks for college credit in the USMC (maybe PFC out of boot camp, if anything...that's about it).

Quote :

"I mean, if I wanted to be a Marine I would have scored lower on my ASVAB. "

I maxed the ASVAB.

1410 on the SAT, too.

Quote :

"Just FYI, pilots get flight pay regardless of if they are in a command that flies. "

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The rules are complicated enough that I'd have to look them up. The short version is that if you spend enough of your time flying, they'll let you keep getting flight pay for a little while for you to take an assignment out of the cockpit for a couple of years, then come back and fly some more (which is what they want--it's very difficult to just fly fly fly and not get sent to do other jobs between flying tours.)

Quote :

"Yes you'd be cheating yourself if you have a degree and you simply enlisted. There's nothing wrong with being enlisted (I used to be too) but all the time you spent getting your degree would be pretty pointless. "

Yes and no. Sometimes depends on what you want to do, and how much pay and totem-pole standing you're willing to sacrifice to do it.

12/5/2008 9:18:12 PM

Quote :

"I would like to be involved in something with health care or scientific."

Might want to look into the Army's PA program. The Medical Service Corps in general has some interesting routes to commission and less stringent physical requirements if you've got a specialty they need.

12/6/2008 12:10:37 AM

Quote :

"No company I'm aware of structures pay like that. If you come home with $100,000/year, you made $100,000 that year, as far as I am concerned. The more reasonable way to look at it is that a lot of people in civilian jobs would have much lower incomes if they subtracted what they spend on housing and food to figure up their gross income. Furthermore, in the military, the tax advantages make it effectively even more, so that makes it even sillier to take the position that you're taking."

Go back and reread what that was in response to.

12/6/2008 1:19:46 AM

Dude, you have lost any credibility in this thread. Just go away.

12/6/2008 3:40:17 AM

I havent lost any credibility, though Im not sure how useful you think your contributions are talking about the Navy in an Air Force thread. But continue on your short monologue about how someone else has lost credibility when you have no experience in said referenced branch. Im sure you will win over scores of people.

In fact Im sure the "dudz yous has no creds in hear" is just full of a compelling, yet profound insight that is remarkably lacking in evidence and logic. Next time try a little harder than "ARRRRGHHHH IM A NAVY OFFICER" because you sound like a butt pirate, or in the least, an experienced pillow biter. Shall we point out how many topics youve demonstrated an aggressive and defensive tone in?

Not making 100K a year must really sting, huh?

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 7:08 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2008 7:01:40 PM

I am 100% done with acknowledging you in this thread. You have proven to be worthless. I am not the only one seeing this either.

12/6/2008 7:47:50 PM

I am 100% done with acknowledging you in this thread. You have proven to be worthless. I am not the only one seeing this either.

Funny how it works both ways, eh?

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 8:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2008 8:06:22 PM

Damn this was some good info coming. Freakin ding dong!

12/8/2008 1:34:48 PM