i hope he gets to at least pick 3 supreme court justices

12/8/2008 12:27:49 AM

yet another successful aaronburro political discussion

12/8/2008 12:29:51 AM

I do what I can, baby

12/8/2008 12:55:15 AM

Quote :

"Obama’s appointments of Clinton, General Jim Jones, dual Israeli citizen Rahm Emanuel and super-Zionist Dennis Ross, among others, fit perfectly with his imperial-militarist agenda of escalating military aggression. His short list of intelligence candidates, likewise, fits perfectly with his all-out effort to “regain US world leadership” (reconstruct US imperial networks). All the media blather about Obama’s efforts at ‘bipartisanship’, ‘experience’ and ‘competence’ obscures the most fundamental questions: The specific nominees chosen from both parties are totally committed to military-driven empire-building. All are in favor of “a new effort to renew America’s standing in the world” (read ‘America’s imperial dominance in the world’), as Obama’s Secretary of State-to-be, Hillary Clinton, declared. General James Jones, Obama’s choice for National Security Advisor, presided over US military operations during the entire Abu Ghraib/Guantanemo period. He was a fervent supporter of the ‘troop surge’ in Iraq and is a powerful advocate for a huge increase in military spending, the expansion of the military by over 100,000 troops and the expanded militarization of American domestic society (not to mention his personal financial ties to the military industrial complex). Robert Gates, continuing as Obama’s Secretary of Defense, is a staunch supporter of unilateral, unlimited and universal imperial warfare. As the number of US-allied countries with troops in Iraq declines from 35 to only 5 by January 1, 2009 and even the Iraqi puppet regime calls for a withdrawal of all US troops by 2012, Gates, the intransigent, insists on a permanent military presence"

12/8/2008 9:03:49 AM

I got a call yesterday from the Democratic party asking for money

my reply was on the lines of: WHY DO YOU NEED MONEY, YOU GUYS ARE BRINGING CHANGE, GONNA BE PUTTING MONEY BACK IN MY POCKET, CUTTING MY TAXES, CHANGE WE CAN ALL BELIEVE IN...

i dont really know when they hung up, at some point i just realized they had

12/8/2008 9:10:50 AM

It looks like Obama may be further to the center than 1st thought...he's already talking about not taxing the windfall profits, not rolling back the Bush tax cuts, a slower withdrawl from Iraq, the appointment of Bush Sec. of Defense to the same position, and appointing Hillary to Sec. of State, who was a supporter of the Iraqi war, heck he even supported a compromise allowing for warantless wiretapping on US soil to continue.

The leftwing nuts are pissed. I'm glad Obama is taking a more practical and less blind idealogical view on things.

12/8/2008 11:19:22 AM

^ Yep

I was hoping to see these kinds of common-sense stances on the issues and Obama has, not surprisingly, come through again with pragmatic policy ideas to fix some of our problems.

With regards to windfall profits, at the rate gas is falling, by the time Obama takes office there won't be any windfall profits to tax. Obama has surrounded himself with top-notch economic policy guys like Summers and Volcker, and I'm sure they have told him it would be disasterous to raise taxes on businesses and the rich when we are in a nasty recession. And although he has been all over the place on Iraq, he has said consistently that a pullout depends on conditions on the ground, which is a common-sense approach.

I also like his proposal to spend $$$ on public works, which will spur the economy while tackling our problem of aging infrastructure, old roads and decaying bridges.

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 11:31 AM. Reason : 2]

12/8/2008 11:29:28 AM

I never thought I'd say this, but it gives me some hope.

GG Obama.

12/8/2008 11:31:36 AM

Quote :

"not rolling back the Bush tax cuts,"

He's going to let them expire still though, last I checked.

12/8/2008 12:00:41 PM

yeah i love that he can just let them expire...win/win situation imo

12/8/2008 12:03:37 PM

And not rolling them back means what exactly? He may let them expire, but the fact he isn't rolling them back and ending them immediately tells me he thinks they're necessary, at least in the short run.

12/8/2008 12:10:46 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, requiring 100 hours of community service each year of college sounds like a great idea to keep people out of college. Some people have to work to survive in college, like, well, me, who had to work nearly full time to support a child and barely provide just the basics, and, sometimes, not even that. If I oxymoronically "had" to volunteer or else not be allowed to continue, I'd still be flingin' trays at the white trash nightclub that I worked at instead of talking to you people about nursing. Either that, or I'd have had to quit my secretarial job which provided my family's insurance and went on Medicaid and cash assistance. I mean, I worked at the bar until 2 am, came home, slept for 4 hours, went to class, maybe did a secretary shift, did homework until 3 am, slept for 4 hours, did my $6.75/hr student job in the lab, went to class, did homework, worked in the bar from 5pm-2 am, slept, woke up at 6 am for clinicals, did that, fell asleep on the couch with some sort of death headache, went to work again...WHAT THE HELL OBAMA? College students aren't all jobless, wild rich kids with nothing better to do. "

This made me LOL.

http://crasspollination.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-11-11T19%3A08%3A00-06%3A00&max-results=7

12/8/2008 1:13:12 PM

^ How do you/she knows she would even have to do the service under Obama's plan? The typical undergrad that gets their college paid for by the gov. doesn't have a kid, and would easily be able to do the service. I don't see it being too likely someone with a kid is going to have to do extra service, there'd almost certainly be an exemption.

It's easy to complain about something though when you just make up what its rules are going to be.

12/8/2008 1:18:43 PM

Quote :

"And not rolling them back means what exactly? He may let them expire, but the fact he isn't rolling them back and ending them immediately tells me he thinks they're necessary, at least in the short run."

The more you like Obama, the happier I am, so you can believe whatever you want...

But Obama's strategy here seems to be 2-fold to me.

First, he obviously is not shy about deficit spending to enact programs he feels could put $$$ in Americans' pockets to help ease the recession. More people with more money back means more consumer spending, and AFAIK, Obama still plans to go ahead with his tax cut on the middle class, which is great (for me, I personally think the gov. needs to be extra careful about debt nowadays). The more interesting (and to me, hilarious) aspect of Obama keeping the Bush tax breaks for the rich is the same low capital gains tax. This is funny, because a lot of people cashed in their capital gains in anticipation of a rise in taxes, and now if the taxes don't rise, they would essentially be losing money if the economy rebounds before 2011 (when the Bush cuts expire IIRC).

Secondly, if the economy still doesn't rebound, he can raise taxes more confidently when the Bush cuts expire saying "hey, look, that didn't work either."

12/8/2008 1:31:40 PM

Quote :

"Secondly, if the economy still doesn't rebound, he can raise taxes more confidently when the Bush cuts expire saying "hey, look, that didn't work either.""

No, he really can't. Which is exactly why he is postponing his pledge to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy and capital gains.

Herbert Hoover raised taxes on higher incomes, businesses and estates during a recession, and it helped turn a downturn into the Great Depression. Obama is too smart to make that kind of mistake, and he has surrounded himself with economists who have told him the consequences of such an action.

Simply put, we are looking at some huge deficits over the next few years. I just hope that we can cut the fat somewhere. It might have to come out of the military, IMO.

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 1:59 PM. Reason : 2]

12/8/2008 1:56:41 PM

^ Roosevelt's marginal tax rate was higher than hoovers (and possibly the highest in history, IIRC), and he used that money to fund his public works.

It's hard to speculate that far out, and I stand by nothing I say, but I can easily see Obama going ahead with a moderate rise in capital gains and top tax rates to help continue funding for projects he starts now. IT wouldn't be good for us to continue the massive spending we're doing to try and stave off worse economic downturn.

12/8/2008 5:36:08 PM

Roosevelt didn't raise taxes until WWII, and in fact he railed against Hoover's massive tax and spending increases (before embarking on much more massive spending).

Quote :

"Nostalgia portrays Roosevelt as the smiling and confident man who knew the answers, but in 1932 there was no such omniscience. "If you had to start a campaign trip within ten days, we'd be in an awful fix," Speechwriter Rosenman told the would-be President. Roosevelt assigned Rosenman to recruit the idea men who were to become known as the Brains Trust, notably Columbia Professors Raymond Moley, Rexford Guy Tugwell and Adolf A. Berle. But the Democratic platform of 1932 committed Roosevelt to Hooverian solutions: a balanced budget and a 25% cut in Government spending. Indeed, while Hoover fulminated against "socalled new deals," it was Roosevelt who accused the President of "reckless and extravagant" spending, and of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, Congressman John Nance Garner of Texas, 63, even claimed that Hoover was "leading the country down the path of socialism." "

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954983-4,00.html

FDR's legacy is difficult to determine and too much of a tangent to go into in this thread. The reality is that we must stimulate the economy, and that a tax increase on business and investors would have the opposite effect. Obama knows as much, which is why he has committed to keeping the Bush tax cuts in effect through 2009.

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 5:51 PM. Reason : 2]

12/8/2008 5:49:09 PM

Quote :

"The leftwing nuts are pissed."

o rly? and where are these "pissed off" left wing nuts?

i live in seattle, a city full of left wing nuts, and i'm having a damn hard time finding anyone pissed off about what Obama's done (or not done) so far.

the only pick he's made that i'm slightly skeptical of is Eric Holder. and considering everything else that's going on, i'm fully prepared to suspend judgment.

anyhow, glad to see so many conservatives getting onboard. your grumbling is kind of cute.

12/8/2008 5:55:31 PM

Daschle is the pick I'm not big on. But I'm sure you heard me bitching about it in the other thread.

Quote :

"considering everything else that's going on, i'm fully prepared to suspend judgment."

This seems to be a common sentiment. However the really rabid left-wingers will surely come out and voice their resentment if Obama continues to call for centrist, common-sense policy. You can't make everyone happy, and IMO the left wing has just as many nuts as the right wing.

12/8/2008 6:04:51 PM

Quote :

"and IMO the left wing has just as many nuts as the right wing."

perhaps... but it's hard to tell for sure. the past 8 years have brought the rightwing moonbats out in full force, and their volume have made the far left wing seem tame.

hell, its only because GoldenViper posts here that i remember there are rabid leftist moonbats who are politically-active. Because really, they're not that much of a political threat. the ones i see in seattle, most of them are too drug-addled and incompetent to ever organize anything. the few that do, just look like skinny faggots in combat boots.

OTOH, teh rightwing moonbats are dangerous. they organize groups of hundreds or thousands in their militias and suburban christian megachurches and are ready to start shooting brown folks in a moment's notice.

12/8/2008 6:26:30 PM

Aha, you're probably right about the power of the Church to organize a bunch of backwoods rednecks with guns and pitchforks. As much bitching as I've heard from the far left over the past 8 years, their organization and rallies have been pretty damn pathetic. Their biggest achievement has been bitching very loudly on the internet, which is hardly an achievement at all. At least back in the Vietnam war era some of the hippies had balls, and were not afraid to fuck shit up.

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 6:34 PM. Reason : 2]

12/8/2008 6:33:00 PM

Quote :

"It looks like Obama may be further to the center than 1st thought...he's already talking about not taxing the windfall profits, not rolling back the Bush tax cuts, a slower withdrawl from Iraq, the appointment of Bush Sec. of Defense to the same position, and appointing Hillary to Sec. of State, who was a supporter of the Iraqi war, heck he even supported a compromise allowing for warantless wiretapping on US soil to continue."

So, what you are saying is that Obama said whatever it took to get elected. Whew, that's CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN, right? That's massively different from the current politicians in Washington who say whatever it takes to get elected. But really, keep counting on that "middle class tax-cut." The writing is practically on the wall at this point: Obama is going to raise everyone's taxes.

12/8/2008 9:33:57 PM

To paraphrase Paul Krugman, Obama is a centrist at a time when being a centrist means tighter regulation of the financial industry, a major public works program, working to achieve universal healthcare of some sort, less of a strident emphasis on what we refer to as "free trade", and trying to wind down the war. If Kerry had won in 2004 and tried to do some sort of program like this, the right would be screaming bloody murder. The crisis has moved the center.

I think over all else he's a pragmatist with his heart on the left and his head in the center and it will be interesting to see where things go.

As for the appointment of certain war hawks, I don't think that's as much a play to the hawks as people think. Moreso than others on the right, Gates I think realizes which way the wind is blowing and he's willing to work for some sort of withdrawal that the current administration would likely not support.

Quote :

"hell, its only because GoldenViper posts here that i remember there are rabid leftist moonbats who are politically-active."

Some of us just know when and where to pick our fights. Recently I've cared a lot more about domestic, even local issues than I ever have so fights about wiretapping or even withdrawal don't excite me like they used to. On the domestic front, this board is packed with libertarians and you're never gonna win an argument with someone who thinks in a totally different paradigm so why bother?

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 10:59 PM. Reason : .]

12/8/2008 10:54:24 PM

Quote :

"this board is packed with libertarians and you're never gonna win an argument with someone who thinks in a totally different paradigm so why bother"

doesnt stop me.

of course i never win, and half the place thinks im either a rabid leftist or a bloomin idiot.

12/8/2008 11:17:11 PM

i mean, how do you have a discussion over what to do about the financial crisis when the answer is always going to be "do nothing"?

either that or blame the federal reserve for everything b/c nobody knows anything about monetary policy so you're likely not gonna get an argument anyway.

it's like in that documentary "the trap" where the interviewer asks james buchanan "what about the public good" and he responds "i dont know what you mean"

[Edited on December 8, 2008 at 11:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/8/2008 11:40:28 PM

Quote :

"o rly? and where are these "pissed off" left wing nuts? i live in seattle, a city full of left wing nuts, and i'm having a damn hard time finding anyone pissed off about what Obama's done (or not done) so far. the only pick he's made that i'm slightly skeptical of is Eric Holder. and considering everything else that's going on, i'm fully prepared to suspend judgment. anyhow, glad to see so many conservatives getting onboard. your grumbling is kind of cute."

Eh, I'll hope for the best while expecting the worst.

As for these rabid pissed off lefties, here's a nice link I found:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16292.html

Oh yeah, aaronburro basically wins this thread.

12/9/2008 10:15:36 AM

Quote :

"Oh yeah, aaronburro basically wins this thread"

now you've really lost your credibility

12/9/2008 11:10:26 AM

Quote :

"i mean, how do you have a discussion over what to do about the financial crisis when the answer is always going to be "do nothing"? either that or blame the federal reserve for everything b/c nobody knows anything about monetary policy so you're likely not gonna get an argument anyway. it's like in that documentary "the trap" where the interviewer asks james buchanan "what about the public good" and he responds "i dont know what you mean""

Other than pissing and moaning about the imaginary "libertarian and Randroid swarm", I don't think I've ever seen you actually advocate any kind of actual policy about, well, anything.

It's kind of hard to win any argument when all you do is bitch about your bete noir.

12/9/2008 11:15:27 AM

Quote :

" Nearly eight in 10 Americans questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey out Tuesday morning are giving the president-elect the thumbs up when it comes to his handling of the transition. Seventy-nine percent approve of Obama's performance so far during transition, with 18 percent disapproving. Obama's approval rating is 14 points higher than the approval rating for President-elect George Bush in 2001 and 17 points higher than President-elect Clinton's rating in 1992, CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/Obama.poll/index.html

12/9/2008 1:17:58 PM

He could be doing nothing and ppl would still rate him highly just b/c they're so disgusted with the current administration and legislation.

12/9/2008 1:51:44 PM

Quote :

"Other than pissing and moaning about the imaginary "libertarian and Randroid swarm", I don't think I've ever seen you actually advocate any kind of actual policy about, well, anything. It's kind of hard to win any argument when all you do is bitch about your bete noir."

maybe it's because up until this week ive posted here a grand total of maybe 10 times this year. i haven't been a regular on here for at least a year and a half. apparently you're a regular here, you should realize that i'm not really anymore. looks like you're just roleplaying some internet toughguy-itude anyway. go on, it's entertaining.

12/10/2008 3:27:44 PM

No, for serious here - when do you ever post anything other than an unprompted complaint about libertarians? It's like your MO, right there. I don't think I've ever actually seen you post anything else.

12/10/2008 3:28:57 PM

I'll direct you to the other thread where i already posted a response to you. get off my balls.

12/10/2008 3:30:25 PM

If you have such a problem with it, perhaps you could take it up with the management?

Or stop being an ass. Your call.

12/10/2008 3:32:52 PM

Obama will try to "reboot" the US muslim relationship by using his full name Barrack Hussein Obama during his swearing in.


(although it is tradition to use all three names in the swearing in)

[Edited on December 10, 2008 at 9:55 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2008 9:42:16 PM

not only is he gona do that dr eyedrop,

but he's gonna order you and me to the gas chamber

12/10/2008 11:08:04 PM

Quote :

"dr. eydrops"

LOL

12/11/2008 12:01:15 AM

wait

good lord

my bad

i wasn't meaning to make fun

i didn't realize it was eye dr b

i've been reading it inverse for far too long

i apologize

12/11/2008 12:08:29 AM

No worries marko, dr eye drops is kinda appropriate.

Although I think you are wrong about the gas chamber, unless its a metaphor for bread lines.

12/11/2008 10:08:59 AM

at least music and art will get better

12/11/2008 11:21:53 AM

http://www.pic2009.org/page/content/donors/

All donors to this inauguration are listed online.

He hasn't even taken office and he's already doing away with politics as usual

12/12/2008 4:59:25 PM

^ but not all donors to his election, except those required by law. strange.

12/12/2008 5:08:23 PM

u still mad?

12/15/2008 1:10:14 PM

this "change" is laughable

12/15/2008 5:07:19 PM

Whew, Tom Daschle, there's another Washington outsider for you. Way to go!

I got an idea... He should pick the gov. of Illinois for some position... That'd be a real outsider

12/15/2008 7:00:35 PM

only thing laughable are two angry little men ^ , ^^

12/15/2008 9:15:14 PM

Given his picks for Energy and Environment I'd say we're definitely fucked.

12/17/2008 12:53:32 AM

i know, i hate it when nobel prize winning physicists are put in charge of energy instead of oil men

12/17/2008 9:07:33 AM

Things were better when a horse trainer was in charge of FEMA.

12/17/2008 10:03:39 AM

I love seeing you guys bitch and moan. 4 years of this entertainment and I don't know what I'll do with myself.

Bonus: Check out these pics that were released today from Obama's college years. Pretty crazy.

12/17/2008 10:17:05 AM