the buses need to just run better routes and work together better

12/13/2008 11:02:07 AM

same effect, though an initial line from the airport to RDU to each city center would be a good backbone.

12/13/2008 11:23:57 AM

Quote :

"there is no reason to buid any rail now. All that you need to do is have DOT acquire property and sit on it until the time comes when the rail is justified."

Thats pretty much what the TTA has done. They have a ton of land and easements set aside for sometime in the future. The downside is, if they hold on to the land around future stations, nothing will be built there for the forseeable future. And we all know that no density = no need for transit.

It was exciting to see the rush to develop around the proposed stations when federal funding seemed likely. All the big shot developers exploited proximity to proposed rail stations as an excuse to increase square footages & building heights beyond normal zoning allowances. After the TTA rail line fell through, the developers lost a big source of enthusiasm. Even before the recession kicked in, you could tell that the building boom lost a lot of excitement because the rail system died.

12/13/2008 3:28:43 PM

you don't have to hold considerable amount of land for stations when you have existing buildings in already congested areas that can be utilized. That is what they are currently doing for the Norfolk Light Rail - taking out a dilapidated library and a courtyard to put in downtown stations.

12/14/2008 9:59:45 PM

prt 454 teacher says you will literally be able to hear money going down the drain if they get light rail in raleigh

12/14/2008 10:18:36 PM

LITERALLY

12/14/2008 10:48:30 PM

literally?

12/14/2008 10:59:15 PM

bttt

10/30/2009 11:35:26 PM

Thanks.

Bout time for this to get ramping up again.

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2009/11/02/story2.html?b=1257138000^2350901

Quote :

"RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK – After writing off $140 million and going into virtual hiatus for three years, Triangle Transit is launching a new bid to build a regional rapid rail system. The government authority will pay $2 million to consultants in the coming year to get the planning train rolling again. It will be the first major expenditure on a rapid rail project since a previous effort veered badly off track in 2006 after failing to win a long-term federal funding commitment. That failed effort cost $140 million. By January, the authority plans to hire a program management consultant to do engineering and design work for a proposed new system. Triangle Transit already has selected a short list of six firms that will be considered for the project: Aecom USA Inc., HDR Engineering Inc., PB Americas Inc., PBS&J Constructors Inc., STV/Ralph Whitehead Associates Inc. and URS Corp.-North Carolina. PB Americas Inc. was the prime contractor on the previous rail project. A Special Transit Advisory Committee, or STAC, last year unveiled the broad strokes of a plan calling for a 56-mile rail system in the Triangle. It’s projected to cost in the neighborhood of $2 billion and would be partially funded by a proposed 1/2 cent sales tax increase that eventually must be approved by a public vote. Transportation officials at the local metropolitan planning organizations have worked to refine that outline. But Triangle Transit General Manager David King says it’s now time to bring in outside help that can zoom in on some of the details. “If we’ve been at 10,000 feet, these folks will come down to 500 feet” and set the table for people who will look at the project centimeter by centimeter, King says. The previous project was declared a failure when the authority couldn’t convince officials in Washington, D.C., that the proposed rail line was efficient enough to deserve the required level of federal funding. A lack of local public confidence in the project also contributed to its demise. This time around, the authority is taking pains to ensure that it is implementing a plan developed by the region, as opposed to one that’s perceived as being hatched entirely by Triangle Transit. “They are following through and making good on that promise to make it a community plan,” says Wake County Commissioner Joe Bryan. Triangle Transit will pay for the design and engineering work using funds from its 5 percent tax on the region’s car rentals – the same tax that helped fund the local share of the old project. King says “a good deal” of the planning done on the old project can still be used on the new one, in part because the system would be built in the same rail corridor. But he wouldn’t hazard a guess as to exactly how much of the previous work would be applicable. That’s because there have been plenty of changes since the previous project was scuttled. “The current thinking is not the same as the old plan,” says Ed Johnson, director of the Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organization. First, officials want to use light rail, which is powered by electricity, instead of the diesel-powered units contemplated in the old plan. Some of the previously completed environmental work also has a clock on it and needs to be refreshed. Planners also must account for any changes in Federal Transit Administration rules and procedures over the past three years. Finally, the cost of the project could be impacted by proposed high-speed rail service improvements. The light rail system wouldn’t share the same tracks as existing freight and passenger rail. But some of the improvements that will be needed, such as grade crossings, might be funded through the billions in federal money that will be distributed over the next few years to upgrade the country’s high-speed rail offerings. The program management consultant contract will be for three years initially and will include an option to extend it for two to four additional years. Triangle Transit’s board will make the final decision on which firm wins the contract, although officials from the local metropolitan planning organizations and the North Carolina Department of Transportation also help evaluate the proposals. "

10/31/2009 12:13:00 AM

Quote :

"i hope you mean 'expand' because the road quality is piss poor here"

If you're talking about road quality and it being bad here, you've never been to SC. Or VA. Or TN. Or FL. Nevermind states that get snow and roads absolutely suck.

Quote :

"I drive through the thick of rush hour traffic on I-40 from RTP to Raleigh, and its not horribly bad. Adds an extra 10-15 minutes to my travel time."

If thats as bad as it normally gets (which from my experience is the case), thats really not that bad. Look at other cities our size, and their heavy traffic cooridors are MUCH worsely congested.

Quote :

"there is only ONE city where the energy/cost savings is superior to driving yourself in a car. And that's NYC."

Check out Chicago's rail system. And if you're talking about going from suburbs to downtown, its definately cheaper. DC's is good too. Come to think of it, most large cities with good 'downtown' rail systems have good longer range rail systems.





This whole argument is kind of a catch 22. Since the advent of suburbs and sprawl, only cities with good infrastructure were able to keep them. Cities that just grow and sprawl have to invest in infrastructure (which short term usually doesn't help much), but long term it becomes useful and worthwhile. I can see the RDU area needing a rail in the future, and it would be nice to have one now. But given the amount of sprawl already, it will take time for it once its constructed to gain traction and be worth while and used.

10/31/2009 12:13:07 AM

what i want to know about is the high speed rail SE coridoor that is supposed to be developed at some point.... (arab13)

10/31/2009 1:49:17 AM

The project is in the pool for federal funding, but the allocation of money hasn't been decided yet. One thing it has going for it is that it is farther along than most other "high speed" rail projects in the country in terms of the number of studies that have been conducted and the amount of planning that has been done.

10/31/2009 8:32:37 AM

Why the flying fuck do we need this?

The population density is nowhere close to being able to support a light rail system. We as a metropolitan area can't even fill up CAT/TTA buses on a regular basis. Why do we all of a sudden think that if we build a rail system it will work? If we build it, they will come?

Please.

The commute times from area neighborhoods to RTP or downtown are not significant enough nor will they be in the coming decade to warrant this sort of investment.

10/31/2009 11:04:11 AM

From May 2007 to May 2008 CAT experienced a 50,000 ridership increase. I don't know the numbers for this year, but I know it grew significantly again. The first immediate steps for the transit plan are in fact buses, and some of that has already been implemented, with express commuter buses to Zebulon and Wake Forest, the downtown Raleigh circulator, and others.

There is also a massive demand nationwide for better mass transit. It's only going to grow in future years. Anyone who is looking at this plan in the context of today is seriously missing the big picture. We're talking about a long range plan to shape growth in the area and improve transit from now until 2035. By the time the first trains are even rolling it will be 10-15 years at the earliest. We are projected to be the fastest growing metro area in the United States up until 2030, and traffic studies show that our infrastructure is going to have a massive strain on it with all of the growth. This is one of the most car dependent areas in the country, and it is time to start getting more options out there.

Another huge part of rail is its use as a way to control growth. If rail corridors exist, development will be focused along those corridors. Simply put, people want to live close to a station, they want to work near one, and businesses want to be located near one. This is one of the worst areas for sprawl in the country (although Charlotte is worse and their light rail has been a phenomenal success), and this is one method to begin getting it under control and growing with a plan. A movement to return to the cities is already underway around the country after decades of spreading out to the suburbs, and the implementation of mass transit like light rail is a major part of that.

It's also a huge incentive for businesses and tourism. The reliance 100% on cars is hell on a lot of people in this area. The Triangle has a good opportunity here in that it has not grown so big yet that it is too late. Most cities have been installing light rail long after they needed them. Charlotte certainly could have used theirs 10 years earlier. By getting things moving now, trains will be rolling here by the time they are needed the most.

10/31/2009 4:28:23 PM

http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_cha_2007-11a.htm

Fairly biased, but does provide some facts on how similar projects have worked in other cities.

Quote :

"A movement to return to the cities is already underway around the country after decades of spreading out to the suburbs, and the implementation of mass transit like light rail is a major part of that. "

Link plz. I agree with most of your other points, but, link plz on this.

10/31/2009 4:54:46 PM

instead of trash-talking other cities' rail systems, shouldn't we be looking to the europeans for inspiration? I've never been to europe or anything, but I'm pretty sure it works out well for them.

10/31/2009 5:09:05 PM

Who is trash talking other cities' rail systems? That's difficult to do considering that light rail has been a major success in pretty much every city that has installed it. Looking to Europe is definitely important, but there are plenty of more relevant examples in our own country of how it can be done right. Now as far as high speed rail goes, that's another story, and there really is no example here.

^^To be fair much of that comment was based on my own observations (just look around the country at the downtown revitalization going on in so many cities). I think the housing bubble burst has an impact as well, not to mention rising gas prices and more concerns with sustainability. So, I guess I will scratch that from the record since I can't back it up, but I will still argue that that is the case in Raleigh. The city center used to be an area where hardly anyone lived, and now you have condos popping up in every direction, and some new neighborhoods near downtown. Not to say that people aren't moving to the suburbs, but there is a much more positive connotation with downtowns and urban areas these days, and people want access to them.

EDIT: Here is one article that is interesting: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124641839713978195.html

Quote :

"U.S. cities that for years lost residents to the suburbs are holding onto their populations with a mix of people trapped in homes they can't sell and those who prefer urban digs over more distant McMansions, according to Census data released Wednesday. Growing cities are growing faster and shrinking cities are losing fewer people, reflecting a blend of choice and circumstance."

[Edited on October 31, 2009 at 5:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/31/2009 5:53:28 PM

there was a great story in The Independent a couple weeks back with a man's vision for downtown Raleigh development based largely on this mass transit plan. I for one would love to see that happen.

10/31/2009 6:21:11 PM

I'd love for the TTA to do something with the rundown warehouses they bought downtown and haven't done anything with.

10/31/2009 6:25:39 PM

Haven't read the thread, but I will say that if people would exercise some damn lane discipline on the highway, it would improve the traffic handling ability of the roads we already have.

Ditto for not rubbernecking at accidents, taking rights on red when available, pulling into the intersection to turn left when you don't have the right-of-way arrow, paying attention so you can start driving as soon as the light turns green (or as soon as the car in front of you starts to move if you're not first in line), etc.

10/31/2009 6:28:03 PM

^^^ Yes, that was absolutely fantastic. If even a fraction of that actually happened it would be a great thing for Raleigh. It's good to at least be talking about it. http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A403156

^^ That's important too, and would be part of this plan I imagine. The multimodal transit center will go there eventually, and that is where the high speed rail, Amtrak, and light rail or whatever would all meet.

10/31/2009 6:39:37 PM

Raleigh needs a light rail so bad. If they would break ground on it that would be a serious plus for me to consider coming back to the area.

10/31/2009 9:22:57 PM

Don't know if it was already posted, but this is an interesting article about the history of Hillsborough Street.
http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A395544

I had no idea the Korean restaurant was a strip club in the 80s

10/31/2009 10:04:56 PM

to whoever was asking for a link to prove people are shifting back to city life: look up Ricky Burdett. He has some essays and books (The Endless City) about the return to city life, and basically argues that we are going to return to city life whether we like it or not, and that careful planning is the only way to avoid costly errors.

[Edited on November 4, 2009 at 1:15 AM. Reason : ]

11/4/2009 1:11:10 AM

This is not new. --Steve Dunne

11/4/2009 1:31:00 AM

Personally I wouldn't mind living downtown if they'd get a supermarket down there.

11/4/2009 2:29:31 AM

Whatever system they have in chicago is badass. I was there for a few days a few years ago, and we never really had to drive anywhere, atleast at night.

11/4/2009 8:43:32 AM