merging them has nothing to do with the fact that you don't have to be completely diversified in each individual account

1/7/2009 1:23:23 PM

Well I guess if all you want to do is have your portfolio diversified through the market you wouldn't...I suppose I'm talking more private equity and debt.

1/7/2009 2:02:31 PM

So, you think if you are going to be making 100K+ soon you should just not invest in a roth ira at all ?!?!?

1/7/2009 2:03:31 PM

Personally, I don't like the limitations. I like having the flexibility.
Do you plan on staying with your company long term?
I would find out if they have a self directed componant to their 401k. That allows you to put those dollars into investments of your choice and you would perhaps have more flexibility with your Roth.

I've just seen so many of our wealthy clients transfer over Roth IRA's that they really can't do crap with. They go into these awesome Private deals where the minimum investments are 50K or 25k at bare minimum and they have a hard time placing their roth in anything but traditional market.

1/7/2009 2:16:00 PM

So withdraw the principal.

1/7/2009 2:25:19 PM

Quote :

"If you expect to withdraw earnings when they're taxable, you're generally better off with a taxable account — especially if you're investing for long-term capital gains, or if the 10% early distribution penalty will apply."

and just sit on your gains?

Just my opinion that it's too limited for a long term qualified account.

1/7/2009 2:27:55 PM

Uhhhhh, who are you quoting?

1/7/2009 2:44:57 PM

Why the attack....

I'm just posting my opinion on Roth. You don't like it, don't listen to it.



[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ...]

1/7/2009 2:48:50 PM

-sds

1/7/2009 2:55:07 PM

It wasn't an attack. You usually site quotes unless they are in the thread.

1/7/2009 3:02:00 PM

Market getting destroyed today, I guess I had gotten used to making money everyday for a week or two im not ready to get used to losing it again. Oh well got out of at least one stock yesterday wish I had jumped out of a couple others but oh well what are ya gonna do *shrug*

1/7/2009 3:18:54 PM

Quote :

"site quotes"

1/7/2009 3:27:08 PM

Oops, I suck.

1/7/2009 3:47:50 PM

hmm, wonder if it rebounds today after yesterday's big drop, or if there is more correction to come.

My money is on the latter, although maybe today will be a more gentle decline.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 7:53 AM. Reason : asdfas]

1/8/2009 7:39:47 AM

After a day like yesterday I would guess a small decline today. I'd like to see an up day so that I can reopen all of the calls that I closed yesterday.

1/8/2009 8:59:08 AM

shorting costco (cost) via prqmj

1/8/2009 9:55:09 AM

just picked up some FNI, BG, CPL, and a lot of QLD with a tight stop with hopes the rally resumes tomorrow.

sold some DRYS yesterday, but still holding some.

1/8/2009 3:58:54 PM

up 43% on the day

back over a dollar

1/8/2009 5:11:55 PM

-prqmj
+anrad

1/9/2009 1:41:54 PM

come

on

rally

please

1/9/2009 1:42:21 PM

late day rally into the weekend would be nice

1/9/2009 1:44:32 PM

its an upward slope since the last 4 hours, lets see if it holds this hour..

1/9/2009 3:05:19 PM

come on you benchode - don't fall off now!

1/9/2009 3:20:46 PM

+gsmp

1/9/2009 3:35:30 PM

CREE has been amazing lately.

1/9/2009 3:56:19 PM

Quote :

"Is this serious? The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Take a look and see how much money the government has stolen from Exxon over the last three years."

Which poor companies was this money given to that was stolen from Exxon?

Quote :

"I think they will start to consume rather than invest abroad. Why continue to produce goods for us if in exchange they get worthless pieces of paper and IOU's? Why not become consumers of US goods or domestically produced goods?"

Which US goods will they consume? Without the US buying their goods, what income will they be receiving with which to purchase their own goods?

Quote :

"Other companies were not dependent on the US consumer."

Yet they still got smacked by this global recession. How did that happen?

Quote :

"Foreigners are capable of consuming their own goods. "

You mean those same Chinese laborers that are going back to their fields now that their mfg plants are shutting down will be consuming their own goods?

Quote :

"Many of their business models are still fundamentally sound."

Outside of the shadow banking system, the average US equity has an unsound business model?

Quote :

"You agree things are about to get really ugly in this country but you still like the US economy to pull through."

Better than a broad basket of foreign equity investments? Most certainly.

Quote :

"I wouldn't be shocked if the government forces gold redemptions again once the currency collapses."

You seem to be forgetting that every other fiat currency in the world is heading to 0% also. The dollar has already crashed and we're still managing.

Quote :

"Please provide historic details of when the US was the world's biggest debtor while continuing to run huge trade deficits. "

Compare our debt to GDP versus other countries.

1/9/2009 6:19:29 PM

Quote :

"Compare our debt to GDP versus other countries."

our gdp includes government spending

1/9/2009 7:15:55 PM

So does the rest of the developed world.


Anyone have a service/site where they can get stock data for given days, including pre/after market? I'm wanting to back test some strategies and Google and Yahoo's basic stuff doesn't have the resolution I need.

1/10/2009 4:04:15 PM

hmm, time for another SSO buy-in? i've had no internet here for the last couple of days...i'll have to do some reading first and see what's going on.

nah, fuck it...i don't have the balls to do it. Plus, I feel like that earnings reports and all of the economic reports coming out this week will cause enough volatility, if nothing else, that we're likely to get an even further depressed day to make buy(s).

[Edited on January 12, 2009 at 10:44 AM. Reason : asdf]

[Edited on January 12, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason : asdf]

1/12/2009 10:31:32 AM

-gsmp (+136.67%)

1/12/2009 12:56:19 PM

Man what a brutal day I dont think I have seen a monetary loss in a single day like this since the oct november area, dow may not be down 700 points but it feels like it. Tomorrow looks to be a pretty crucial day a good chunk of the stocks on my watch board are very near their short term resistance levels, if they gap down like they did today then it looks like most of them are headed to the nov. 21st lows next. On a good note AUY finally dropped to my buy price of 6.50 so I picked up another chunk of shares.

[Edited on January 12, 2009 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/12/2009 3:33:29 PM

Quote :

"nah, fuck it...i don't have the balls to do it. Plus, I feel like that earnings reports and all of the economic reports coming out this week will cause enough volatility, if nothing else, that we're likely to get an even further depressed day to make buy(s)."

Stay out of the way. We might get some retracement back into the 900s, but it's either into the 700s from here, or after that.

1/12/2009 3:59:25 PM

Im looking for one more bounce "the obama bounce" if the s&p gets to 940 again I am dumping anything I have that is in the green or close because I think once we get that bounce that is as high as it will get until maybe the 2nd half of the year. I should have dumped em all last week or whenver it got to 940 but I got greedy even though I knew 940 was the major resistance level it wouldnt be able to break.

1/12/2009 4:04:01 PM

Quote :

"Which poor companies was this money given to that was stolen from Exxon?"

Is this question rhetorical? AIG, Citi, GM, etc, etc... It has long been subsidizing alternative energy (remember ethanol?), agriculture, sugar producers, etc... I have no idea where you were going with this

Quote :

"Which US goods will they consume? Without the US buying their goods, what income will they be receiving with which to purchase their own goods? "

You are using faulty logic. You are assuming the Chinese and Asians NEED our dollars. In fact, what they NEED is to stop trading valuable goods for IOU's we can't possibly make good on. They are perfectly capable of allocating their resources to produce goods and services they can consume domestically. And you will see the Chinese do this very soon as the trade deficit is beginning to shrink from month to month. But of course they will become larger consumers of certain US exports. I don't claim to know the future but I would guess it will be information technology, healthcare, manufactured goods (GM may end up supplying China with all their automobiles for gods sake), and even discretionary items like coke or ipods.

Quote :

"Yet they still got smacked by this global recession. How did that happen?"

Follow along, they got smacked because they made shitty investments US real estate, financials, etc and tailored too much of their production to a tapped out US consumer.

Quote :

"You mean those same Chinese laborers that are going back to their fields now that their mfg plants are shutting down will be consuming their own goods?"

In a recession all capital will not be efficiently allocated. They are ridding themselves of unproductive jobs and will soon bounce back with more efficient and productive jobs assuming the government doesn't make the same mistake the US has and prop up zombie companies.

Quote :

"You seem to be forgetting that every other fiat currency in the world is heading to 0% also. The dollar has already crashed and we're still managing."

The dollar crash hasn't even begun. It started to get legs and then there was a powerful counter rally in the flight to quality. Unfortunately, the average American doesn't understand that the US plans to inflate our debt away by printing more and more of our (once)precious dollars. Other countries are no longer collecting dollars and we are about to be plush with excess ones. It's like if someone was hoarding Frank Thomas rookie cards for 20 years and then just unleashed his entire collection on ebay. This crash is going to make the history books, bank on it.

Quote :

"Compare our debt to GDP versus other countries."

If you don't feel like sifting through this entire post at least understand this. If you are using GDP as a crutch in an argument you obviously haven't done your homework. Get out of academia and get in the real world. I can't believe with everything going on people are still falling for government tricks.

Using GDP to measure economic growth is laughable for the following reasons:

1) CPI (the deflator against which real GDP is measured) has been manipulated by the government for years. The government has a vested interest in keeping CPI low (keeps social security cost of living adjustment lower and keeps civil unrest at bay) but making sure they produce enough real inflation to inflate our national debt away by taxing the savers. The Fed Reserve does a great job of producing inflation while putting forth a false image that they are preventing inflation, therefore real GDP is corrupted by the fake CPI numbers put forth by the government bureaus.

2) GDP measures CONSUMPTION not PRODUCTION. I can eat a shit load of food but that doesn't mean I am a good farmer. This is akin to your neighbor who lives in a McMansion, drives a BMW, and takes fabulous vacations. If you found out he was mortgaged to the hilt, leased his car, and financed his vacations on a maxed out Mastercard would you still be impressed by this facade?

3) GDP goes up even when the consumption measured is sheer rent seeking. When a lawyer charges $10 million to defend a murderer, and the court system sucks millions from the taxpayer to build a case we see a huge net gain. How exactly is this a good thing for the community? When a tornado hits Nebraska and destroys 300 homes we see a net gain in GDP to repair those homes. When a fat fucking guy eats too many lays potato chips and suffers from a heart attack and incurs $500,000 in uninsured medical bills how does society benefit as a whole? Why would we report this as data that proves our economic health?

When a Chinese manufacturer sells $25,000 worth of bobbleheads to the Carolina Hurricanes and they give them away for free to the first 10,000 fans and people put them in their basement when they get home why would we increase our economic measure of health (GDP) by $25,000?

When Sony produces a TV that is 3x as good as the last tv they sold for $5,000... why do we report each TV at a value of $15,000? Is my TV really three times better? Do I really laugh three times as hard at the Office or loathe Grey's Anatomy one third as much?


And finally, if you insist on using GDP as a measure of economic health. And GDP is only supported by year over year rapid credit expansion. And rapid credit expansion ceases to exist... what are you going to do when GDP collapses at unprecedented levels?

Let me guess, you'll find another useless government reported statistic...





[Edited on January 13, 2009 at 6:21 PM. Reason : Bear Market fellas]

1/13/2009 6:15:26 PM

dude i forgot about posting in the place...tell me you guys made money during the downfall of the market...

UP ISN'T THE ONLY WAY TO TRADE PEOPLE

1/13/2009 9:20:45 PM

Well Nortel filed for bankruptcy this morning hope anyone who gambled back at 20 cents or so sold in the past 2 days for double their money because now its all but worthless. Will be interesting to see how it plays out with the RTP facility.

1/14/2009 8:52:21 AM

1/14/2009 8:58:28 AM

They will either be bailed out by the canadian govt. or sold to another company.. a couple years back there were rumors that Nortel would buy Avaya.

Maybe Avaya will end up buying Nortel instead.

1/14/2009 9:19:36 AM

Quote :

"dude i forgot about posting in the place...tell me you guys made money during the downfall of the market... UP ISN'T THE ONLY WAY TO TRADE PEOPLE"

I was going to start rolling into the inverse ETFs at S&P 950. Was going to buy a 1/3rd there, at 960ish, and at 975ish. A lot of folks were thinking it could get back to 1000 and I thought 950 would be a good point to start rolling in without too much worry that it would break and run well above 1000. FAZ and TZA would have been at about 30/40 respectively at 950 and I could have cashed out around 45/50 for around 1000-1500 in gain with what I was going to deploy.

From a basic technical perspective, if you ignore the Nov 20 low, the S&P has been trading in a band between 850-950 going all the way back to the plunge in October. A break of 850ish could very well trigger all those computers to dump and a retest and crack of the Nov 20 lows WILL happen. Eerily enough, Elliot Wave theory is also lining up for a retest and break of the Nov 20 lows as well, and could be timed right around the inauguration.

1/14/2009 9:21:11 AM

Quote :

"Well Nortel filed for bankruptcy this morning hope anyone who gambled back at 20 cents or so sold in the past 2 days for double their money because now its all but worthless. Will be interesting to see how it plays out with the RTP facility."

Thats funny, I thought Nortel was actually doing pretty good with their office rental business in RTP

1/14/2009 9:25:21 AM

Looks like we are gonna test the October lows today hopefully it holds

1/14/2009 9:42:54 AM

Nortel files for bankruptcy.


Shares <$.08

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 9:49 AM. Reason : ]

1/14/2009 9:48:20 AM

Quote :

"Looks like we are gonna test the October lows today hopefully it holds "

If it doesn't dig out of sub 850 range by the end of the day, I'd expect a pretty big selloff in the last 30 minutes.

1/14/2009 9:53:51 AM

Yep I keep waiting for things to start trending upwards a bit, started to but then turned back down. I was expecting a bounce off 850 and head towards 940 around obama time before turning down and then testing november lows but its gotta hold 850 if thats gonna happen

1/14/2009 10:16:37 AM

That's what's gonna tweak me on this go round. We don't actually retest Nov lows and the market trades back up towards 950 again.


This day is setting up just like Nov 20. I watched it trade down all day, towards 3pm I bought into FAS thinking, surely it couldn't go lower and would finish the day with a rally, only to see it plunge from the 22 I got it at all the way to ~14. Fortunately, I got the hell out of the way at around 19.



[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 10:31:17 AM

Appears to be struggling very hard to hold here, if it manages to hang on today and we dont bounce tomorrow then sub 8k here we come again?

1/14/2009 10:34:46 AM

Getting absolutely destroyed today doesnt look like its gonna hold which means Ill see you guys in maybe 6 months when everything may finally be getting back to even again

1/14/2009 10:46:15 AM

You really need to learn to use stop losses. Enter a trade that you think has better upside than downside. If it goes against you, let it trigger your stop out, and try again with another play. For the trades you're still stuck in, go back to where you entered them and apply an arbitrary 10% (or 5%) stop loss on them, then figure out what you could have done on some other trades you would have liked to get in with that capital you got back.

I sold out of the FAS on that ride down back in November for a loss, but I made up for it with other trades in December. I could have made it back on FAS (and then some), but at the time, we didn't know that.

1/14/2009 10:51:38 AM

I started trying to use stop losses but with the volatility of the market I was getting stopped out of trades all of the time when it would take a huge dip for 30 minutes and then start tracking back higher. Im buying companies I like to weather the storm just have to ride this shit out and when I have free cash available average down and a year from now hopefully if Ive played things right will be happy with now I did things. Even looking a year out days like today still hurt just to see the huge drop in your account haha

1/14/2009 11:05:21 AM

*considering ceremonial suicide*

1/14/2009 11:21:33 AM