2

1/7/2009 11:28:23 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to know what Oscar Grant's criminal record was."

^^ what relevance could that possibly have?

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 11:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2009 11:31:22 PM

Quote :

"If that's the case maybe they'll start designing them so they don't feel like a gun at all."

They are, most departments are being issued the X26 (http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERX26.aspx) but if they were already issued the old ones, re-equiping the entire force is not something easily attached to a budget. Of course, neither is a wrongful death suit, so I expect BART officers to see new tasers and training in the next little bit.

1/7/2009 11:35:29 PM

^^just because he's dead doesn't mean I am obligated to feel sorry for his death. Local news reports indicate that he had 12 case files in the last 4 years and that he spent several months in state prison in 2007-2008. If he's just another dumbass Oakland gangbanger, then good riddance.

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM. Reason : being arrested in a group for fighting on the subway sounds pretty thuggish to begin with]

1/7/2009 11:39:13 PM

^while typically I would agree with you, but a cop shooting someone in the back is a little different than the kid getting sprayed in a drug-war driveby

1/7/2009 11:45:00 PM

the end result is the same. I'm not condoning what the cop did, as I think it's downright sadistic that cops can even think of tasers as being something they have a right to use anytime resists in the slightest. But if the kid is as much of a menace as his arrest record might indicate, then I don't really care what did him in.

When Rodney King got beat down, everyone wanted to point fingers at the cops without mentioning how King had led them on a high speed chase through residential streets while incredibly intoxicated. The cops in that situation probably weren't justified either, but I think King deserved to get beat a little harder than he was.

1/7/2009 11:56:52 PM

Quote :

"theres no way hed pull out a gun and just whhack someone in front of all those hecklers it had to be a fuckin mistake get serious folks"

and on a serious note, any "civilian" who made a similar mistake would already be in jail facing charges

Similar to that case in Wilmington where that unarmed kid got shot through his front door, if the he would have been armed and shot first thinking the cops were intruders he would have been put in jail. The cops shoots through the front door b/c he mistakenly thought he heard a shotgun being pumped, the cop gets off scot-free b/c....it was a "mistake"

It's about time these mistakes are dealt with. A LEO is given the power to take someone's life when it is warranted, they should be punished when they do so and it is not warranted.

1/8/2009 12:01:23 AM

^^glad a lot of you are not in a position of power

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 12:06 AM. Reason : .]

1/8/2009 12:05:52 AM

^^That case in Wilmington was an example of police enforcing Karma. An armed robber getting gunned down while holding the thing he had stolen is priceless.

1/8/2009 12:09:56 AM

let's just get rid of that pesky right to trial and just have summary executions instead.

1/8/2009 12:49:07 AM

If you don't properly control your weapon, it can discharge unintentionally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOI9ahGxMfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_EoRZOVes

1/8/2009 4:46:25 AM

Quote :

"this guy FLIPS THE FUCK OUT around 4:30"

ahahaha. good old Alex Jones.

salisburyboy used to post his shit all the time.

1/8/2009 9:09:04 AM

Steps a civilian can do to prevent themselves from getting shot:

1) Shut up.
2) Lay down on stomach.
3) Place hands behind back.
4) Get raped.

Steps a cop can do to prevent themselves from shooting a civilian:

1) Chill out.



Personally, I would have just laid quietly on the ground and submitted willfully (even if I knew I was innocent). But, that's my nature. I don't like to cause too much commotion. I guess some have a hard time submitting to an authoritative figure. I understand that defending your innocence is a "right", but this guy did it at the "wrong" time. He should have just shut up and let himself get arrested and defend himself in court or police station, not in the heat of the moment when the last thing on the cop's mind is listening to your point of view when he's already got it in his head that you're the guilty one. Stupid cop + Stupid guy = Stupid outcome.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason : meh]

1/8/2009 10:17:04 AM

Quote :

"1) Shut up. 2) Lay down on stomach. 3) Place hands behind back. 4) Get shot in the back"

1/8/2009 10:24:14 AM

^ Meh, we could all tell he was mouthing off. Can't go to step 2 if you can't get step 1 down straight. Order of operations.

(Not to say that mouthing off warrants getting shot by a dirty pig, but just saying that it could lead to it)

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason : meh]

1/8/2009 10:33:29 AM

Personally, I would've let the other cops restrain him as they seemed perfectly capable of doing. But that's my nature. I like to see authority used in a restrained and professional manner. I guess some have a hard time not shocking shooting people in the back.

1/8/2009 11:12:25 AM

It begins...

Riots erupt in Oakland after slain father laid to rest
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/08/BART.shooting/index.html

1/8/2009 12:29:12 PM

Quote :

"I hope he sees jail time."

Quote :

"mistake or not, serious jail time should be in his future."

Quote :

"maybe even jail time."

Quote :

"He should, and hopefully will see serious jail time, he killed that guy almost execution style, mistakenly or not."

Quote :

"he should face manslaughter charges"

Quote :

"should do some serious TIME."

If this cop doesn't do at least 10 years, I'll lose a lot of respect and hope for police, in general. Many are honorable public servants, yes, but they ARE NOT fucking royalty, and SHOULD NOT be treated any differently for the crimes they commit. In other words, the fact that he's a cop and was "simply doing his job" ( ) should have no legal relevance. What he did was murder that guy. If you or me or anyone else stood over someone and shot them in the back, you know that would be considered murder. This cop is a murderer, and he should spend THE REST OF HIS LIFE in prison. Fuck that mother-fucking mother-fucker.

1/8/2009 12:55:55 PM

did we not learn for the '92 riots that the people want to see the cops do time for stuff like this.

from wiki on the '92 riots:

casualties included 53 deaths, 2,383 injuries, more than 7,000 fires, damages to 3,100 businesses, and nearly $1 billion in financial losses

1/8/2009 1:00:50 PM

^^AGREED

1/8/2009 1:15:06 PM

Quote :

"I'll lose a lot of respect and hope for police, in general. Many are honorable public servants, yes, but they ARE NOT fucking royalty, and SHOULD NOT be treated any differently for the crimes they commit"

The only reason I don't agree 100% with this is because they are, by nature, put in to these situations as part of their daily job at a much higher frequency than your typical civilian. For that reason, I do think they should be treated SLIGHTLY different. But certainly not as leniently as they have been historically.

And you are making a judgment without all the facts right now just as the officer did, though on a smaller scale.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM. Reason : x]

1/8/2009 1:22:27 PM

Quote :

"he only reason I don't agree 100% with this is because they are, by nature, put in to these situations as part of their daily job at a much higher frequency than your typical civilian"

and likewise they have much more training and preparation for it than your typical civilian...if they cannot operate in a clear headed fashion in these situations, knowing they will face them with regularity, they have no business in the job in the first place.

1/8/2009 1:32:18 PM

turned in his resignation

1/8/2009 1:39:23 PM

Agreed, and I feel from what we know that he should face manslaughter charges.

But the post I responded to insinuates that he should be treated as a cold blooded murderer. I simply don't see it like that. I can't justify comparing what the officer did in this situation allegedly to a civilian gunning down another person. They aren't the same situation.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 1:40 PM. Reason : ^^]

1/8/2009 1:39:59 PM

I don't know about cold blooded murder, but either way, incidents such as this severly damage public trust in an entitly that relies on its reputation to effectively do its job...I've always been of the idea that the uniform, not the person, commands respect (the person still has to earn it like anyone else)...if something causes people to lose respect for that uniform (and by extention anyone who wears it, whether they're "good" or not), who knows what could happen.

1/8/2009 2:12:05 PM

^^either way you are shooting an unarmed man in the back

1/8/2009 2:53:55 PM

Quote :

"turned in his resignation"

to avoid any questioning. i didn't know you could commit a crime as an authority figure and then quit to avoid responsibility.

1/8/2009 3:04:59 PM

Quote :

"If this cop doesn't do at least 10 years, I'll lose a lot of respect and hope for police, in general. Many are honorable public servants, yes, but they ARE NOT fucking royalty, and SHOULD NOT be treated any differently for the crimes they commit. In other words, the fact that he's a cop and was "simply doing his job" ( ) should have no legal relevance. What he did was murder that guy. If you or me or anyone else stood over someone and shot them in the back, you know that would be considered murder. This cop is a murderer, and he should spend THE REST OF HIS LIFE in prison. Fuck that mother-fucking mother-fucker."

I think at best it would be a manslaughter charge which I think carries a maximum of 5 years iirc. The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent. If it was an honest mistake you have to take that into account. The end result might be the same (guy dead), but we don't always punish based on the end result.

I doubt it will even come to manslaughter though. We equip a person with a gun and hire him to do a job which requires him to point it at people. As unfortunate as it sounds, when you live in a country with over 300,000,000 people mistakes are going to happen from time to time. If he's an honest person who made an honest mistake he should be judged as such. I'm sure you'd want the same if you made a mistake that led to a person's death.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 3:19 PM. Reason : s]

1/8/2009 3:18:45 PM

^Any gun, whether taser or firearm DID NOT need to be drawn.
There were 3++ officers right there. If the officer had in fact drawn and fired a taser, he would have zapped the other officers as well.

1/8/2009 3:21:36 PM

I disagree with the use of tasers in these situations, but I think the courts have shown support for their use. In addition, we don't know if the person's actions indicated to the officer that he might have a weapon of his own. In either case, you're not going to win that argument in court even though I personally agree with your assessment.

1/8/2009 3:25:32 PM

Gotta love it when a police officer, who spends the majority of his career trampling on citizens' constitutional rights, appeals to those rights when he's in trouble

1/8/2009 3:53:56 PM

This is a bad situation for everyone. I truly think this was a tragic accident and there will and should be consequences.

As far as him resigning, it would only eliminate an administrative investigation. Was it in policy, use of force, etc? He will still be investigated for the shooting. Here in NC, if an LEO shoots some and kills them its a homicide. There is no such things a legal killing. When a shooting does happen, there is an internal investigation by Professional Standards, IA, whatever. They look to see if you the shooting conformed w/ dept guidelines. Simultaneously, there is an independent investigation conducted by the SBI. They investigate the shooting just like any other murder and forward their results to the DA.

Also, by NC law, you can shoot someone in the back. Their are circumstances where it is justified.

Lastly, NyM410 is correct. In police work, you are in a rapidly changing environment where split second decisions have to be made based on your training and experience. Thats why officers are judge by the reasonable officer standard, not the reasonable person. The general publics perception of what police work is, and reality are grossly different.

1/8/2009 6:41:57 PM

Quote :

"Oakland police tried to keep protesters at bay Wednesday night as they smashed car windshields and storefront windows. KTVU footage shows one protester jumping up and down on a police car hood, while another demonstrator pushes a flaming Dumpster up against it."

The angry african american community sure is showing that cop whose boss!

Destroying property of people that had nothing to do with that guy getting killed.

If they want to riot and destroy something why don't go torch a gov't building not Mom and Pops grocer

1/8/2009 6:59:12 PM

yea, if they'd quit acting like fucking cavemen maybe they could get something done and not look like gangbangers..hate that shit

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 7:14 PM. Reason : 21512 palindrome..dammit]

1/8/2009 7:13:55 PM

This is from an email I got today from a friend who lives in San Fran.

Quote :

"At the Flora, people were eating when suddenly, the windows started getting busted in. Everyone in the restaurant fled into the bathrooms and behind the bar. When I was walking past, people were just getting brave enough to look up from behind the bar. It was kinda funny actually seeing all these wide eyed people looking up at you from behind a counter. One of the waitresses asked if it was safe and I told her it was "for now." LOL."

1/8/2009 7:18:18 PM

maybe they were working on their street cred

1/8/2009 7:51:56 PM

Quote :

"There were 3++ officers right there. If the officer had in fact drawn and fired a taser, he would have zapped the other officers as well."

Tasers don't work that way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFSW44UPgwQ (see first 12 seconds)

1/8/2009 10:39:50 PM

Quote :

"This is from an email I got today from a friend who lives in San Fran."

I feel that it's necessary to say that shit happened in Oakland... shit like this doesn't happen on the other side of the Bay...

1/8/2009 11:19:42 PM

This is horrible - read about it earlier

1/8/2009 11:20:40 PM

Quote :

" Tasers don't work that way:"

With multiple officers with hands on a suspect, there is a good chance that one of them could be between the two probes. They would then feel the affects.
I do know how tasers work.

[Edited on January 8, 2009 at 11:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/8/2009 11:56:41 PM

According to several reports from people in the area, the protest started off peaceful, but the crowd attracted some unsavory people and that's when it turned violent. The organizers of the protest were gone before things turned violent. But y'all can keep it up with your convenient generalizations.

1/8/2009 11:57:13 PM

last time i checked, cops didn't exist to exact revenge. they exist to enforce the laws (and hopefully keeps citizens safe). shooting someone because of crimes they've already served time for doesn't help anyone or anything.

1/9/2009 1:08:30 AM

Quote :

"The only reason I don't agree 100% with this is because they are, by nature, put in to these situations as part of their daily job at a much higher frequency than your typical civilian. For that reason, I do think they should be treated SLIGHTLY different. But certainly not as leniently as they have been historically."

The only difference should be in public opinion, not in legal proceedings.
EVERY HUMAN BEING SHALL BE TREATED EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW. PERIOD. FUCKING PERIOD.

Quote :

"The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent."

Quote :

"the post I responded to insinuates that he should be treated as a cold blooded murderer. I simply don't see it like that. I can't justify comparing what the officer did in this situation allegedly to a civilian gunning down another person. They aren't the same situation."

While I agree with you emphatically, and I understand that this was technically not murder, I feel that our justice system is ALREADY fucked, so why not charge him with murder? (If I had any reason to have faith in our justice system being fixed, I wouldn't be such a hypocrite.) You see, right now we live under a system of law wherein drunk drivers who kill are now getting charged with murder. Why? I guess there's some rule that says you can't increase penalties without increasing the crime. -- I support life-in-jail sentences for drunk drivers that kill, but not if the only way to do that is to charge them with murder. Also, our legal system will charge you with murder if a cop dies when responding to your felony crime. That, too, is complete bullshit.

Until we strike down as unconstitutional all laws that charge murder for something that is clearly not murder, I don't see why we shouldn't apply our perverted laws to cops, as well.


[Edited on January 9, 2009 at 8:16 AM. Reason : ]

1/9/2009 8:14:48 AM

Quote :

"I feel that our justice system is ALREADY fucked, so why not charge him with murder?"

The simple answer...Because that isn't the crime he committed, there is no way that would stick, and the D.A. would have to be retarded to make such a glaring mistake.

By the way, congratulations to the residents that made Oakland look like shit again! Let me guess, that was a racist florist? Our country is struggling and you just took money out of the pocket of a bunch of mom & pop shop owners and building landlords. Your actions have disrupted their livelihood, the livelihoods of their employees, and hurt your own community. As long as you treat your own community like shit you deserve to live in shit. Maybe if you channel your anger into politics instead of acting like a bunch of Neanderthals you could resolve some of the real problems and make a better community.

[Edited on January 9, 2009 at 9:49 AM. Reason : l]

1/9/2009 9:42:19 AM

When times get rough

niggers will be niggers


i swear black people are like hogs, they are fine and dandy but let em off the leash a few days and they become full fledged niggers


fuckin rioting and bulllshit makes me fuckin sick

1/9/2009 12:17:59 PM

this is just another reason i love the humor of BHS

1/9/2009 12:38:58 PM

Quote :

"Our country is struggling and you just took money out of the pocket of a bunch of mom & pop shop owners and building landlords. Your actions have disrupted their livelihood, the livelihoods of their employees, and hurt your own community. As long as you treat your own community like shit you deserve to live in shit. Maybe if you channel your anger into politics instead of acting like a bunch of Neanderthals you could resolve some of the real problems and make a better community. "

damn fucking right

1/9/2009 12:48:46 PM

what the hell ever happened to the concepts of "leave the place of protest cleaner than it was when you got there" of the old, meaningful days of civil demonstration??


hogs to boars, thanks james earl ray

1/9/2009 12:50:58 PM

Quote :

"Questions surround shooting of baseballer's son * Story Highlights * 23-year-old son of former baseball star shot in his driveway by police officer * Robbie Tolan, a minor league baseballer, remains hospitalized with bullet in liver * Family alleges racial profiling: "If these had been white kids, this does not happen" * Tolan's father, Bobby, had a 15-year career in the majors By Ed Lavandera CNN (CNN) -- Robbie Tolan sits in a Houston, Texas, hospital bed with a bullet from a police officer's gun lodged in his liver. The son of a famed baseball player was shot in his own driveway. But how this unarmed 23-year-old and his cousin ended up in the cross-hairs of an officer's gun, suspected of stealing a car, is a question sparking allegations of racial profiling. "There's no doubt in my mind that if these had been white kids this does not happen," said David Berg, Tolan's attorney. It was 2 a.m. on December 31 when Tolan and his cousin, Anthony Cooper, were confronted in the driveway of their home by Bellaire, Texas, police officers. Police officials say the officers suspected the two young men were driving a stolen car. Bellaire is a prominent, mostly white suburb in southwest Houston. Video. Watch outrage over shooting of an unarmed man » Robbie Tolan is the son of a once-prominent professional baseball player. His father, Bobby Tolan, had a 15-year career for the St. Louis Cardinals and Cincinnati Reds, spanning 1965 to 1979. He played on one of the most-heralded Cardinal teams ever: the 1967 World Series champs. The younger Tolan is just starting to develop his own baseball career. He's played in the Washington Nationals minor league system and spent part of last season playing for the Bay Area Toros of the Continental Baseball League. Tolan's relatives say the two young men had just arrived from a late-night run to a Jack-in-the-Box fast food restaurant. As they walked up the driveway to their home, Anthony Cooper said an unidentified man emerged from the darkness with a flashlight and a gun pointed at them. "We did not know it was a police officer," said Cooper. "He said, 'Stop. Stop.' And we were like, 'Why? Who are you?'" The officers ordered both men to lie down on the ground. Tolan's parents heard the commotion and came outside. Police will only say an "altercation" took place. Tolan's family say it involved his mother. "The cop pushed her against the wall," said Tolan's uncle, Mike Morris. Relatives say Tolan started to lean up from the ground to ask the officer what he was doing to his mother. That's when the family says Tolan was shot in the chest, the bullet piercing his lung and then lodging in his liver. But Tolan's SUV wasn't stolen. Both men were unarmed and relatives say they were hardly a threat to the police officer. Anger over the shooting has been building over the last week. "He was the victim of the worst case and worst kind of racial profiling," said community activist Quannel X. The Bellaire Police Department has called the shooting "tragic" and put the officer involved in the incident on administrative leave. "Anytime someone is injured we take it very seriously," said Byron Holloway, Assistant Chief of the Bellaire Police Department. "But any allegation of racial profiling, I don't think that's going to float." The police department is investigating and the district attorney's office in Houston is also looking into whether charges will be filed against the police officer. The policeman is a white, 10-year veteran of the force whom police say has an excellent record. Bellaire Police officials are no longer talking publicly about the case. The department's assistant chief says they're investigating how the officers on the scene mistakenly determined that the SUV Tolan and his cousin were driving had been stolen. Robbie Tolan remains in a Houston hospital. Relatives say he is in severe pain but is expected to recover. But his attorney says that Tolan's baseball career might be over. Tolan's father isn't worried about that. "I'm not concerned about his career as a baseball player. I'm concerned about his health," said Bobby Tolan. All AboutRacial Issues • Crime • Major League Baseball "

pretty common event these days.....

1/10/2009 2:06:21 PM

In the video the cop clearly backs up to shoot, don't you need to get closer for the taser?

1/10/2009 9:51:23 PM