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2/16/2009 8:47:23 AM

Quote :

"Since firefly was good, nerds had to pretend that Buffy was good so that whedon would still have hope of making another firefly project."

i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion.....
Buffy and Angel already had huge cult followings before Firefly ever aired.

I never watched any of the 3 shows while they were still on the air - i came to it very late. But I watched all of Buffy and Angel before ever hearing about Firefly. And honestly, Firefly (at least the first 1/2 season) was the weakest of the 3 shows, at least when compared to the strongest seasons of Buffy/Angel.

2/16/2009 9:52:16 AM

the connor season of angel was terribad

2/16/2009 10:52:30 AM

well, yeah - both shows had their ups and downs. I hated Buffy S7. Most people hated S6, but I liked it a lot. S2 and 3 were the best, of course. Same with Angel - S2 and 3 were the best, then downhill in 4 and 5.

2/16/2009 11:09:25 AM

The first episode wasn't bad, however I don't know if I care enough to watch more. It seems a lot like 'The Pretender' to me, which was a cool show back in the day.

2/16/2009 1:15:06 PM

well, FOX sent out 3 review episodes to the critics, and from what I've read, most critics rank them as:
E2 >> E1 ~= E3

So, maybe episode 2 will get people hooked or interested, but it won't stay that good consistently (at least until mid-season, according to Whedon)

2/16/2009 1:17:52 PM

Was alright, but most shows really don't grab people after just one episode. Need to see another to see if this is going anywhere.

2/16/2009 5:00:00 PM

btw, i'll repost this interview from Salon
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2009/02/11/joss_whedon/
I would suggest to listen to the MP3 instead of reading it. They left a lot out in the transcript. He talks a lot more about how the show will develop in the first season

For example, here is another telling answer about how the first season will develop:

Quote :

"Echo is a much more complicated character [compared to Buffy or Firefly] by virtue of hardly being a character and the premies itself is designed to be kind of distancing. Having said that, we got so jazzed by the concept and the cast and what we were doing that by the end of the season - i did pitch it with a 6-year plan, because your show has to sustain and grow - but at the same time, when we did the first 13, we said 'instead of holding back let's just go nuts', and by the the 2nd half of the season we just started blowing shit up. And I dont' mean literally with explosions, but just really tearing things apart. we were monkeys in the writer's room. .... The premies is very liberating and it's complicated and difficult to do, but towards the end we just started playing with variations that got really really exciting. We definitely feel like if America decides to let us come back, we have amazing stories to tell, and the where-with-all to tell them."

He also reiterated in other answers that the first few episodes are clearly designed to set up the premies to tell us what the Dollhouse is and who the main characters are, before they really start dissecting the characters and getting into major story arcs.

So here's my armchair analysis - Whedon is determined not to make the same "mistake" he made with Firefly. The mistake, of course, was not his fault by doing anything particularly wrong with the story or characters, but instead the mistake was in trusting FOX and the viewing public to be patient with the show. Obviously he had a plan, and he was revealing that plan slowly, but he was never given the opportunity to execute it to fruition. It sounds like he started Dollhouse with that plan, but then decided to really kick up the story telling early on in order to hook people within the first 13 episodes, instead of the first 2 or 3 seasons.

2/17/2009 1:08:18 PM

Quote :

"It seems a lot like 'The Pretender' to me, which was a cool show back in the day."

omg. i LOVED the pretender! They have episodes on hulu that I watch when I get super bored at work.

2/17/2009 2:24:05 PM

well its going to take a while to start up. I mean they havent introduced the whole cast. there suppose to be 2 or 3 more characters like echo

2/17/2009 3:49:39 PM

From http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/02/17/whedons-dollhouse-flops-how-long-will-fox-hang-on/#continued

Quote :

"Fans of Joss Whedon's critically acclaimed and cult-followed shows, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, were amped about the creator/writer/director's latest project, Dollhouse. Unfortunately? Few of them tuned in. The Eliza-Dushku mid-season effort, a sci-fi series about special agents who can be cloned with traits and personalities, saw just 4.7 million viewers tune in, nabbing a 6 share and a 2.0 rating among adults 18-49. In fact, Dollhouse was the second lowest-rated series premiere this season (on a major network). Guys? It was beaten by Supernanny, which aired on Walt Disney's (NYSE: DIS) ABC and attracted 6.1 million viewers. So now executives at Fox (owned by News Corp. [NYSE: NWS]) have to quickly decide the next move. Is it possible the Dollhouse premiere, leaked some places online, kept Whedon fans away from the live premiere? Is it possible a buzz will cause ratings to improve ... and fast? Was Friday night the wrong time slot for this sci-fi experiment? Unfortunately for Whedon and his fan base, precedence (Skin, Drive, Whedon's own Firefly) suggests Fox hasn't had much patience for shows that perform poorly out of the gate. "

2/17/2009 3:57:56 PM

Quote :

"Was Friday night the wrong time slot for this sci-fi experiment?"

DUUUURRRRRRRR

Yeah, Supernanny beat it - wow, big surprise. A show with an already-create fanbase that is probably made up of middle-aged mothers sitting at home on Friday nights watching their rugrats.

What fucking dipshit executive thinks that any show premiering on a Friday night is going to get high male 18-35 y/o viewership?

2/17/2009 4:16:15 PM

Quote :

"you're in the minority on buffy."

All of the responses echoing this are uber correct. Buffy was cool, and people loved it, and it was around for a long time before firefly.

2/17/2009 4:41:46 PM

and besides the jasmine season, i liked angel more than i liked buffy.

2/17/2009 4:45:24 PM

http://io9.com/5155387/dollhouse-finds-its-audience-on-itunes

#1 on itunes

2/18/2009 1:03:41 PM

time to see if the critics were right

2/20/2009 9:03:57 PM

They followed up a lackluster pilot with a shitty second episode.

This show better pick up quickly or it won't make it past 13 episodes.

2/20/2009 10:54:44 PM

yeah, hate to say it, but I agree.
I'm still not pulled in, and the Whedon story-telling prowess hasn't come through. Dushku is only marginally capable of this role, it seems.

plus, the CGI and green-screen sucked.

2/20/2009 11:01:23 PM

eh, I like it. The whole Alpha story is intriguing.
But, I do hope that Elisha Dushku does get a little better...but if you watch old Buffy episodes SMG was a lot like that too. I hope FOX holds onto it for a bit to see how it unfolds.

Signed, AlliePaige

(whoops!)

[Edited on February 21, 2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason : logout?]

2/21/2009 12:01:58 AM

Why am I hearing so much about the girl from Bring It On lately? That shit was 10 years ago.

2/21/2009 12:51:35 AM

unless dushku is going to come out of the tv and suck my dick, ill pass on this show

2/21/2009 9:46:17 AM

^ /thread

2/21/2009 1:29:59 PM

joke's on you guys. she DID come through the tv and suck my dick. even fondled the balls.

[Edited on February 21, 2009 at 1:32 PM. Reason : and i think the show is alright. something to watch on friday at least.]

2/21/2009 1:32:40 PM

^ Damnit. I knew I should have watched in HD.

2/21/2009 2:54:40 PM

^Yeah but you had to watch it on a sony bravia and OTA. Satellite and cable compression isn't compatible with the new SVHD (suck-vision high def) technology they used in the show. It's also a Sony proprietary technology, so you had to watch it on a Sony Bravia LCD tv with a memory stick pro duo II of at least 2GB for storing the extra data. I think the Blu-Ray release is supposed to offer some other extras through BDLive. From what I hear though it'll just include an optional tongue-ring.

[Edited on February 21, 2009 at 3:04 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2009 3:04:35 PM

you tried way to hard right there dude

2/21/2009 4:17:26 PM

^^^^,^^,^AHAHAHA

2/21/2009 4:24:26 PM

I like it. Like someone else said, it's something to watch on Fridays.

For the record, I really liked Buffy and watched just about all the seasons. Never watched Angel--I don't think I've ever seen a full episode. I had never head of Firefly until this thread.

[Edited on February 22, 2009 at 7:49 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2009 7:48:15 PM

^ if you liked Buffy, you will like Angel.
If you liked both of those and and you like Dollhouse so far, you will like Firefly

2/22/2009 8:50:47 PM

Firefly is the only good thing the guy has ever done.


Also, this show won't make it a full season before getting cancelled. It may find a home on scifi where nerds will watch any old drivel.

2/22/2009 10:48:01 PM

Firefly is the 3rd best thing "this guy" has ever done, but i think you're right on the 2nd point

2/22/2009 11:23:50 PM

Quote :

"Firefly is the 3rd best thing "this guy" has ever done, but i think you're right on the 2nd point"

better

2/23/2009 1:56:19 AM

is "this guy" ever done

?

2/23/2009 11:37:18 AM

on an indirectly related topic. i think the biggest question is why does Nathan Fillion keep getting work. come on ABC, Castle!? really? You are ripping off the Mentalist and expecting this guy to carry it for you.

2/23/2009 11:45:56 AM

the mentalist ripped off psych

2/23/2009 12:49:17 PM

psych ripped off Encyclopedia Brown

2/23/2009 5:32:54 PM

Quote :

"why does Nathan Fillion keep getting work."

because those who suck from the testicles of joss whedon go on to get shows that are canceled after their first season?

2/23/2009 6:13:10 PM

Nathan Fillion is awesome.
you guys are wrong.

2/23/2009 8:33:44 PM

^^ hahaha, pretty sure fillion would love to have a show that lasted a whole season

Castle
Drive
Firefly


personally I feel Firefly was A LOT like Sports Night, a bit out of the mainstream but quirky and intelligently funny/deep

[Edited on February 23, 2009 at 9:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2009 9:11:25 PM

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/2/27/

2/27/2009 12:41:01 PM

the mentalist may have indirectly ripped off psych to a degree, but its a good show.

Castle just looks plain awful.

2/27/2009 12:59:59 PM

haha 'to a degree'

whatever you have to tell yourself

2/27/2009 2:49:20 PM

Quote :

"I like it. Like someone else said, it's something to watch on Fridays."

That's a pretty weak defense. It reminds me of an episode of Family Guy when Meg dated that nudist guy and said "I like him! He remembers my name!"

2/27/2009 2:54:51 PM

Quote :

"Nathan Fillion is awesome. you guys are wrong."

Quoted for correctness.

And I usually watch this show saturday mornings on my DVR, but I still say it's worth watching.

2/27/2009 3:56:16 PM

Quote :

"What we are told by people (almost without exception) is that 1. I don't like the show, but 2. I will keep watching it as an expression of gratitude for a better, more engaging program he made back when he was making better, more engaging programs"

2/27/2009 4:25:17 PM

For me it's more like

1. I don't like the show, but
2. I will keep watching it as an expression of gratitude for a better, more engaging program he made back when he was making better, more engaging programs because I trust that Joss Whedon has a plan about where he's taking this show and hopefully when it gets there it won't suck.

This latest episode was the best one so far, right? It didn't completely suck.

3/1/2009 5:09:37 AM

that black girl was superhot

that's all i took away from that episode

3/1/2009 11:39:53 AM

Quote :

"that black girl was superhot that's all i took away from that episode "

3/1/2009 2:33:03 PM

i haven't been too impressed with it but my wife loves the show - the idea that the people really think they are the "doll" grips her

3/1/2009 2:40:19 PM

^

odd, same thing at our household. I watch it, but it's not that great. my wife got hooked on it when we watched the pilot only b/c one of my good friends was on that episode.

3/1/2009 6:12:36 PM