2

Quote :

"ive just kind of accepted it...i used to get a lot more mad about it than i do now"

Quote :

"I think bitching about the refs is fine and dandy It's when guys...start blaming the refs for a loss that shit gets out of control"

that sums up my thoughts!

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 10:53:13 AM

Bitching about the refs is mostly annoying. I mean, people are trying to watch the game, and there's always some guy who turns into an opportunity to make commentary on the state of reffing. I'm slowly getting better about not bitching.

In terms of us looking like whiners and complainers though, every team in the league bitches about the refs. Carolina and Duke are actually the worst about it cause they really do expect to get every single call. When you look at how often they win, their bitching is just inappropriate. And when they play each other, all bets are off--the two most call-getting teams in the nation all of the sudden become the most victimized bunch of underdogs.

I also really like the fact that Roy Williams and Coach K are the biggest whiners in the league. They're stomping up and down the court, jawing in the refs ear on the inbounds play. And I know they get calls for it, but I'd rather they get those calls than have a coach who looks as ugly and as pussy as they do. And it's hilarious to me that Chapel Hill fans think it's totally cool and awesome that Roy has spent half his career at Chapel Hill in a constant state of outrage at the refs. "Ol' Roy's gettin' mad." And I'm like, "Are you serious? Do you not see that your coach is behaving like an insolent child?"

Anyway, I definitely think Chapel Hill gets more calls than they deserve. I also think they have a tremendous PR department that helps be the media darlings year in and year out. I think a lot of things, and when you put them altogether, they might look like a conspiracy. But I do my best not to talk about them in-game. That's an after-game type thing when you're drunk and with the people you love.

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 11:24:59 AM

bttt for Virginia game

the white ref really sucked balls

2/21/2009 4:44:57 PM

you want to talk about epic ref bitching hit up the Inside Carolina boards after today's loss

it was funny watching all the infighting where the walmart bandwagoners were flaming Roy and the refs and everyone, some of those guys are ridiculously eager to jump ship when they're still having an outstanding season

I'd hope that we wouldn't bitch at Sidney if we were playing at that level, but I'm sure there are some here that would find faults

2/21/2009 9:19:34 PM

He is a fault. Lee Fowler's fault anyway.

2/21/2009 9:22:33 PM

Which kind soul here on TWW would be generous enough to link this thread on Inside Carolina? I mean after all, Maryland did have more fouls called against them, Carolina outshot the Terps 28-17 at the line, and Maryland had more turnovers (including travels, or in the case of UNC, lack of). Plus, the most important issue of it all, UNC was playing "fucking" MARYLAND. What advantage did they not get?

2/21/2009 9:26:11 PM

If they'd ever approve me to post on their board I would.....

2/21/2009 9:32:48 PM

^

2/22/2009 11:44:59 AM

preemptive bump

THE TITLE SAYS IT ALL FOLKS

3/7/2009 1:59:43 PM

yeah,

it'd be different if we could have made a few more buckets

3/7/2009 2:00:29 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=560363

3/7/2009 2:06:29 PM

Who is to say that the reason we went on a 12 minute scoring drought wasn't partially on the officials? I know its mostly because we suck, but if one or two shots fall here or there because we're not getting hacked, its a totally different game, and confidence in this game is huge.

3/7/2009 2:09:30 PM

^ We need to be tough enough mentally to play through shitty officiating.

On the other hand, it's got to be frustrating to deal with that crap almost every single game.

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ]

3/7/2009 2:13:49 PM

You've got to be fucking kidding me if you're going to put any of this on the refs. We were already on our way down before there was a questionable call or two. Shit...we're lucky they called a couple fouls on Miami in the 2nd half, because that's the only way we were going to score any points at the time.

3/7/2009 2:16:45 PM

^uh you didnt watch the game then

we were tied with 6 minutes left


the questionable calls were flooding in by then

3/7/2009 2:18:44 PM

^I watched the whole game. Did you watch it at all?? Or the 2nd half. We went on over a 9-minute scoring drought!

We were going to lose that game no matter how good or bad the refs were.

3/7/2009 2:21:34 PM

The refs sucked

We lost

Two unrelated phenomena

3/7/2009 2:23:46 PM

over 12 minutes actually. which was awful.. the officiating was awful too though.

3/7/2009 2:23:56 PM

The questionable calls started in the first half, when they jumped all over our backs every time we threw into the post and they created turnovers. We're called for that foul every time we commit it, and I just watched miami get away with about 7 of them.

Then theres the timely out of bounds call going miami's way.

I'm not saying we played well enough to win, but it seemed like every time we had a chance to get it going something else went against us, either on offense or defense. Tracy's foul on McClinton, the out of bounds, the intentional on Costner (too late at that point but it still stands).

I'm personally blaming this loss on costner and McCauley...costner for his lazy passes early, and McCauley shooting fucking jumpers and not catching iron on any of them. But that said, maimi was playing like shit too, but they shot free throws with every foul at the 11 minute mark.

Quote :

"The refs sucked We lost Two unrelated phenomena"

I agree for the most part, although I'd like to see less games where the refs suck so bad so theres no speculation. I'm really not blaming the refs, I'm more responding to the people that say the refs have nothing to do with the outcome...because when they suck really bad, they usually do.

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/7/2009 2:24:00 PM

^^^^si

WE dont score we dont win obviously

but we were still in the game well into our drought

It didnt help that Miami was in the bonus because of those bullshit foul calls (ex: tracy diving for a ball)

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM. Reason : slow]

3/7/2009 2:24:23 PM

Also, I don't really recall any games in the last few years where the refs actually made calls in our favor down the stretch. I used to think they did under Herb when we played lower ranked ACC teams...where they usually just let us get away with stuff. I haven't seen it in almost 4 years though. Usually, we're having to fight against the refs at the end.

3/7/2009 2:28:06 PM

3/7/2009 2:29:17 PM

Quote :

"ex: tracy diving for a ball"

That foul ALWAYS gets called.

3/7/2009 3:15:13 PM

not when the other guy is going after it as well

Basically the guy who hustled more got the foul on this occasion (happened twice actually)

if you dont like that example then how bout the intentional foul on BC? The game was still within reach ( 5-6 pt hole) when they made that heinous call

either way we didnt help ourselves by no scoring for so long but the refs were adding insult to injury.

just gotta play better in the ACC tourny

3/7/2009 3:20:16 PM

After laughing so much at teams like UNC when they lose and complain nonstop about refs, plus my duke friend who complains about refs regardless of whether they win or lose, I try and never complain about it. It just makes you look like a jackass if you attribute losses to refs or bitch about it afterward. Our refs today sucked, but they usually suck, and it isn't the reason we lost the game.

3/7/2009 3:28:09 PM

^^Eh...that call still gets made. It's almost like a "wreckless abandon" call. Am I saying its the correct call?? No. But it still gets called all the time when someone dives on the floor and takes out the other guy trying to get it (even if he just falls over him).

And yeah...it shouldn't have been an intentional foul...but I'll disagree with you about the game not being out of reach. No way we were coming back after that. And Costner did foul the shit out of him. Definitely should have been flagrant (although I don't know if I'm quite up on the difference between flagrants and intentionals because I confuse them with the NBA rules).

3/7/2009 3:33:08 PM

yea i can agree with that on the first point

I think a flagrant is when you foul the player hard as shit without even trying to go for the ball

Like waaaaaaaaaaay over top and/or trying to hurt someone

intentional is when you foul someone without even trying to play the ball reckless or not, most of the time its just a boneheaded play by the fouler.

At least that is my take on it

3/7/2009 3:40:42 PM

intentional would be something like grabbing someones jersey to stop a breakaway

flagrant would be dropping a shoulder and giving a football block

3/7/2009 3:55:35 PM

the officiating in the last few minutes of this game was so bad that I got up and walked out. Absolutely horrendous. I couldn't even finish the game.

3/7/2009 4:18:05 PM

hahahaha

always the officials... ALWAYS

3/7/2009 4:28:44 PM

^^I forget the penalties though.

Intentional is two free throws and whoever got fouled gets the ball no matter who had it at first...and flagrant is one and whoever had possession of the ball at the time keeps it?? Right??

3/7/2009 4:29:20 PM

Quote :

"the officiating in the last few minutes of this game was so bad that I got up and walked out. Absolutely horrendous. I couldn't even finish the game."

So, the 12 minute stretch without a field goal didn't bother you that much?

3/7/2009 5:28:45 PM

Quote :

"hahahaha always the officials... ALWAYS"

No, its not. Nobody blamed the officials when we got beat by maryland the other night.

Honestly, I bitch about the officiating as much when we win as we do when we lose, its jut that there aren't people on here like you saying that the officials can't possibly have an impact on the outcome of the game after wins...so I don't post about it. If this thread hadn't been bumped, there may have been one or two comments on some bad calls that went their way in the game thread and nothing more...because as previously stated, even getting fucked over by the officials we still should have played better.

I don't know whats so hard for you people to see about that. But then again, there are some idiots blaming the loss soley on the refs so whatever.

3/7/2009 10:21:28 PM

Quote :

"hahahaha always the officials... ALWAYS"

3/13/2009 2:17:19 PM

They pretty much gave UNC the game today.

Hansbrough's special treatment is getting really old.

The charge call on Vassallo in the first half was terrible. VTech was rolling and then UNC rolls right back in.

3/13/2009 2:18:52 PM

VPI has a blue colored dick (Dr. Manhattan?) so far up their ass from the last couple years thanks to the refs...

3/13/2009 2:23:00 PM

Quote :

"The charge call on Vassallo in the first half was terrible."

I can see how the charge/blocking scenario is a tough call for officials, but that was ridiculous. Taking away two points and giving Vassallo 3 fouls was a huge swing. I wish one of the other refs had the balls to overturn that call.

3/13/2009 2:25:52 PM

there was one charge in the first half, the ref called it when the VT guy was in mid air, i guess he expected Ellington to flop, but Ellington didn't fall. UNC still got the call..

3/13/2009 2:33:46 PM

look it's real simple....as long as Hansbrough is playing in an ACC game the refs have a duty to protect him. If he is called for the foul against Vassallo then UNC loses.....the logical thing for them to do is simply call the charge on VT instead. UNC wins, lives another day while Roy and Hansbrough exchange a knowing smile.

3/14/2009 10:10:34 AM

Go ahead and get this to the top cause another close one with fagolina - refs are figuring out how to give them another

3/14/2009 3:22:17 PM

I originally posted this elsewhere but I thought these stats were very telling of the UNC bias talked about in this thread. These are all ACC games only.

Fouls called on a team per game, opponent fouls, difference:

FoulPG Opp    +/-  Team
15.6   20.4   4.8  North Carolina
18.1   19.9   1.8  Duke
19.0   20.4   1.4  Wake Forest
17.0   17.8   0.8  Miami (FL)
19.6   20.0   0.4  Virginia Tech
17.9   18.2   0.3  NC State
19.0   18.6  -0.4  Florida State
18.8   18.3  -0.5  Boston College
17.8   16.8  -1.0  Maryland
19.9   18.0  -1.9  Clemson
19.1   16.6  -2.5  Virginia
20.9   17.7  -3.2  Georgia Tech

FT rate  Opp       +/-      Team
33.55%   21.10%   12.46%    North Carolina
33.36%   26.19%    7.17%    Duke
33.42%   29.46%    3.96%    Wake Forest
33.81%   30.04%    3.77%    Virginia Tech
28.29%   26.81%    1.48%    Miami (FL)
28.13%   27.40%    0.73%    NC State
28.64%   32.05%   -3.41%    Florida State
30.12%   34.20%   -4.08%    Boston College
26.32%   30.63%   -4.31%    Clemson
22.47%   27.53%   -5.06%    Maryland
24.67%   30.10%   -5.43%    Virginia
25.76%   33.64%   -7.89%    Georgia Tech

P/FTA Opp   +/-   Team
2.98  4.74  1.76  North Carolina
3.00  3.82  0.82  Duke
2.99  3.39  0.40  Wake Forest
2.96  3.33  0.37  Virginia Tech
3.53  3.73  0.20  Miami (FL)
3.55  3.65  0.09  NC State
3.49  3.12 -0.37  Florida State
3.32  2.92 -0.40  Boston College
3.80  3.26 -0.53  Clemson
4.05  3.32 -0.73  Virginia
4.45  3.63 -0.82  Maryland
3.88  2.97 -0.91  Georgia Tech

oP/tF  tP/oF  +/-    Team
4.563  3.527  1.036  North Carolina
3.652  3.335  0.316  Duke
3.712  3.452  0.260  Wake Forest
3.790  3.579  0.210  Miami (FL)
3.386  3.304  0.082  Virginia Tech
3.657  3.608  0.049  NC State
3.502  3.546 -0.044  Florida State
3.402  3.497 -0.095  Boston College
3.763  3.994 -0.231  Maryland
3.385  3.760 -0.375  Clemson
3.495  4.024 -0.528  Virginia
3.399  3.996 -0.597  Georgia Tech

3/15/2009 10:42:13 PM

it blew UNCs mind when they got shit called on them against FSU. Roy was classic.

3/15/2009 10:43:57 PM

^^ The best teams in the league are at the top of all four of your lists and the worst are at the bottom.

Coincidence?

3/15/2009 10:53:40 PM

^ Look at the difference between UNC and #2 then #11 and #12. The rest of the league has natural spread, but UNC's advantage is a definite outlier.

3/15/2009 11:46:55 PM

The fact that we're in the middle of those breakdowns and still finished 10th cannot be good news

Then again part of the reason we sucked at defense was because McCauley was too much of a pussy to foul anyone

3/15/2009 11:55:22 PM

heres a relevant link with some past numbers

http://packsmack.com/InfamousACCIndexCard/

although it doesnt take into consideration when the fouls occur, what the score is when fouls occur, and what no-calls occur

3/15/2009 11:56:04 PM