it helps me #2

3/19/2009 1:35:59 PM

Quote :

"The idea that all organic meat is inferior in this way is a myth. "

oh really? so you're telling me the 30% increase in market weight we got in our cattle when we started using growth implants on our family farm was just a freak occurance? Are you trying to imply that the gigantic chickens we're capable of producing nowadays can be found just as easily at an organic farming operation? You must be snorting way too much of that organic crystal meth if you're delusional enough to believe organic meat is not inferior to it's chemically enhanced counterpart.

And just before someone comes in here retorting with some free-range cattle speech, keep in mind that free range cattle can still be hopped up on Zeranol, Estradiol, and Trenbolone.

3/19/2009 1:50:32 PM

^ Let me add to that.

Has anybody seen organic cows? They are miserable. The fields they are put on all full of weeds so they have to be supplemented with other feed. The ranchers are also not allowed to put fly spray on the cows, so during the summer they have flies all over their face and eyes. But organic people don't care about the condition of the animals, they are too scared of some freak accident or sickness from chemical or pesticide that WILL NEVER HAPPEN and has yet to happen.

For "hippies" they are pretty self centered if you ask me. I care too much about the livestock to support this organic fad. However as long as people still enjoy paying $6-$7 for a gallon of milk, I don't see it really going anywhere at the present.

3/19/2009 2:19:32 PM

^&^^WORD

[Edited on March 19, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/19/2009 2:24:18 PM

Quote :

"oh really? so you're telling me the 30% increase in market weight we got in our cattle when we started using growth implants on our family farm was just a freak occurance? Are you trying to imply that the gigantic chickens we're capable of producing nowadays can be found just as easily at an organic farming operation?"

I for one enjoy my meat/dairy products chock full of hormones and antibiotics

3/19/2009 2:34:39 PM

whatever gives me more meat, amirite??

3/19/2009 3:19:08 PM

i'll give you some meat

3/19/2009 3:21:36 PM

You guys are backwards. (typical "Moo U" thinking, I guess...)



Now, here's my idea of a raw food diet:
(Although, I'm sure you beefheads would call most of this "bait" and "rabbit food"... )










[Edited on March 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM. Reason : (I guess the octopus is cooked, though... and I'm not sure about raw eggplant)]

3/19/2009 5:21:07 PM

I'm not going to get deep in the weeds on this one, but this is a pretty good article from the Economist about the effect of cooking on the evolution of the human body:

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13139619

Quote :

"Humans became human, as it were, with the emergence 1.8m years ago of a species called Homo erectus. This had a skeleton much like modern man’s—a big, brain-filled skull and a narrow pelvis and rib cage, which imply a small abdomen and thus a small gut. Hitherto, the explanation for this shift from the smaller skulls and wider pelvises of man’s apelike ancestors has been a shift from a vegetable-based diet to a meat-based one. Meat has more calories than plant matter, the theory went. A smaller gut could therefore support a larger brain. Dr Wrangham disagrees. When you do the sums, he argues, raw meat is still insufficient to bridge the gap. He points out that even modern “raw foodists”, members of a town-dwelling, back-to-nature social movement, struggle to maintain their weight—and they have access to animals and plants that have been bred for the table. Pre-agricultural man confined to raw food would have starved. Start cooking, however, and things change radically. Cooking alters food in three important ways. It breaks starch molecules into more digestible fragments. It “denatures” protein molecules, so that their amino-acid chains unfold and digestive enzymes can attack them more easily. And heat physically softens food. That makes it easier to digest, so even though the stuff is no more calorific, the body uses fewer calories dealing with it."

for what it is worth . . .



also:

Quote :

"but people who choose organic are usually types of people that realize that food isn't just some tasty substance that we eat, that it isn't just a product, but that it was alive and a part of nature."

Quote :

"Thank god I'm not a hippie. I hope my kids don't turn out like this."

That isn't hippie at all, that is simply responsible. The general lack of understanding, on the part of American consumers, of their food supply is detrimental to making smart decisions about food consumption. Raw or cooked, organic or processed, whatever your personal decision might finally be, I see no benefits to ignorance.

One of the things I love about hunting is the very realization that food cannot be taken for granted and that my right to eat only extends to my ability to procure food, be it through the industrial food chain or on my own.

3/19/2009 5:29:39 PM

eat a low-calorie well-blanced diet

and exercise

lol @ this thread

3/19/2009 7:38:32 PM

My grandmother ate whatever the fuck she wanted, didnt exercise at all, smoked a pack a day, and lived to be 95.

3/19/2009 7:52:09 PM

lol

go do that then maybe you have the genetics for it too

3/19/2009 7:54:13 PM

Whoa this thread exploded

From http://current.com/items/76338282/life_in_the_raw.htm

Quote :

"You can make raw sushi!"

WTF IS REGULAR SUSHI THEN?!?!?! (Yes, I know the rice is cooked but the fish is raw, stupid fucking hippie )


[Edited on March 20, 2009 at 2:06 AM. Reason : This video has gone downhill from there lol]

3/20/2009 2:04:15 AM

Quote :

"Raw foodists can be divided between those that advocate raw vegetarianism or raw veganism, those that advocate a raw omnivorous diet, and those that advocate a diet of only raw animal foods (carnivorous)"

I can't imagine someone could live very long on that diet.

3/20/2009 2:18:01 AM

sushi does not mean raw fish, it's a style of cooking or preparing food. eel (unagi) is always cooked. there's also grilled squid (ika) and the ones that use shrimp are cooked as well.

3/20/2009 2:19:54 AM

^ No shit really?

Watch the video and you'll see what I'm talking about.

3/20/2009 2:22:28 AM

just sayin. it's a common misconception.

and that dude is a little too over zealous.

3/20/2009 2:32:34 AM

Quote :

"That isn't hippie at all, that is simply responsible. The general lack of understanding, on the part of American consumers, of their food supply is detrimental to making smart decisions about food consumption. Raw or cooked, organic or processed, whatever your personal decision might finally be, I see no benefits to ignorance."

You, sir, are awesome. I couldn't have articulated it better myself.

3/20/2009 3:37:30 AM

Quote :

"I'm taking nutrition, and this was discussed. It's pointless and not healthy."

carlface

3/20/2009 5:46:37 AM

^ Since when has the internet become more of reliable education alternative than public universities? Not just in that post, but I've seen it in other threads. Why does anyone go to college, I'll just tell my brother to put his education was the internet on his resume.

Quote :

"You guys are backwards. (typical "Moo U" thinking, I guess...) Now, here's my idea of a raw food diet: (Although, I'm sure you beefheads would call most of this "bait" and "rabbit food"... ) "

Nobody is arguing against those foods, just how unhealthy it is if you only eat raw vegan.

Variety is key.

[Edited on March 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM. Reason : What is Moo U?]

3/20/2009 8:16:27 AM

^^ Yes, I actually tried to learn from a class and not from the internet. The Internet can be a good resource, but to act like its better than a classroom based education is ridiculous.
I'm sure if I said "Wikipedia said..." instead of "I learned in a class" nobody would discredit that.

3/20/2009 9:09:11 AM

Wikipedia is always right, didn't you know?

3/20/2009 9:13:46 AM

^
College classes are always right, didn't you know?

But seriously -- think about it. There is very likely no such thing as an unbiased college education. Probably every single one has at least some religious, social, political, industrial, or commercial agenda. Are you seriously going to suggest that every nutrition class at every accredited college is the same? Fuck no they're not the same.

Wikipedia gets way too much shit for what it actually offers. I mean, yeah -- anyone can edit it; anything you find might be completely false, but how often has that happened to you? I've browsed wikipedia for many years now, and NEVER found a bogus entry. Other people have found them and pointed them out, so I know they exist, but the whole point of wikipedia is that as soon as bogus or incomplete information about an issue comes up, someone else generally very quickly fixes it. So no, it's not 100% right all the time, but it's clearly better than some professor with an agenda and no checks-and-balances in place. So when the entire college says, "We have an 'unofficial' loyalty to these particular commercial, industrial, or political causes, so for this particular class curriculum, let's dismiss and avoid this one issue entirely, while focusing on these other issues.", and the professor agrees and "teaches" a very one-sided view of the subject, (You surely know that this goes on all the fucking time,) then the students come away with an incomplete and biased education.

Now, I've already pointed out that wikipedia isn't fully trustworthy either, but guess what? That's not important. What's important is that wikipedia offers a "second opinion". If someone's college professor teaches them "X", but they find that wikipedia says "O", then they can say to themself, "Is it 'X' or 'O'? I better look deeper and find this out." However, if someone's college professor teaches them "X", and they accept it as fact, because after all, college classes are always right , then they may or may not have it right. The truth might actually be 'O', as the college and/or professor may be biased against the issue. Wikipedia, and the internet in general, allow students to question what they are being taught. Yes, it is ridiculous to assert that the internet is better than a classroom based education, but it is equally ridiculous to assert that college classes are a better way to disseminate facts. Professors lie and omit. The internet is all-revealing. The combination of classrooms with teachers and the (proper use of the) internet is far superior to either alone.

Quote :

"My grandmother ate whatever the fuck she wanted, didnt exercise at all, smoked a pack a day, and lived to be 95 is 83 and in great health"

I got them good genes.

[Edited on March 20, 2009 at 10:10 AM. Reason : ]

3/20/2009 10:09:12 AM

Oh, I love wikipedia, I'm not talking shit about it, I'm saying how you people discredit what was said because the info came from a college course.

3/20/2009 10:16:42 AM

puppy, let me just preface this by saying I think raw veganism (actually veganism in general) is stupid.

let's take a look at your first post

Quote :

"I'm taking nutrition, and this was discussed. It's pointless and not healthy. The reason people do this is because they think all the enzymes you need are in the food and these are destroyed by the cooking process. Cooking food may destroy the enzymes, but your body makes enough of these already. Raw veggies and fruits are good to eat, but should not be one's only source of food."

It's pointless and not healthy? Glad you cleared that up. I'm sure that in your 30 second classroom discussion of raw diets, you considered the advantages and disadvantages, evidence from any relevant studies, human physiology, and human evolution.

But what's more likely is the professor told you it was wrong, gave you a reason, and BAM. Now you're an expert, right?

In your short post you manage to demonstrate that a) enzymes are the only reason people follow this diet (I seriously fucking doubt it)
and b) they only eat raw veggies and fruits. what?

In the few nutrition classroom discussions I had, I was questioned: you don't like milk? Oh why not? Why aren't you drinking three glasses of milk a day? And if you were sitting in a classroom 15 years ago, you would have been lectured on this bullshit which suggests, among other boneheaded ideas, 6-11 servings of bread or pasta a day:



How about some skepticism here?

[Edited on March 22, 2009 at 6:54 AM. Reason : /]

3/22/2009 6:52:44 AM

Quote :

"The food pyramid is supposed to be a complete diet"

based on the RDA....

Quote :

"So, you may wonder, why did the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services set the RDA levels so unrealistically low? Dr. Linus Pauling also asked that question, and answered it himself. After studying the RDA standards thoroughly, this famous Nobel Prize winner concluded that the RDA's daily nutrient allowances are "enough to keep people barely alive in ordinary poor health.""

Despite the fact that many of us homo sapiens are overweight, the vast majority of us are undernourished


so yay vitamins and EFA supplements

3/22/2009 8:10:50 AM

^^ That pyramid may be crap but I don't even get the new one (although I haven't really tried to either )

3/25/2009 1:19:34 AM

missed this one:

Quote :

""Raw foodists can be divided between those that advocate raw vegetarianism or raw veganism, those that advocate a raw omnivorous diet, and those that advocate a diet of only raw animal foods (carnivorous)" I can't imagine someone could live very long on that diet."

because it's raw or just because it's carnivorous? because, while i have no idea on the former, you'd definitely be wrong on the latter.

4/3/2009 6:21:53 AM

saw this thread for the first time. read every single post.

just want to say 2 things, because everything else has been discussed to death:

^ are you saying humans could thrive on a meat only diet? i doubt that. where will the fiber and certain vitamins come from? it would definitely lead to death, imo.

jbrick83 is a fucking asshole and a monster for saying this:

Quote :

"Thank god I'm not a hippie. I hope my kids don't turn out like this."

in response to this:

Quote :

""but people who choose organic are usually types of people that realize that food isn't just some tasty substance that we eat, that it isn't just a product, but that it was alive and a part of nature. ""

JCASHFAN put him in his place:

Quote :

"That isn't hippie at all, that is simply responsible. The general lack of understanding, on the part of American consumers, of their food supply is detrimental to making smart decisions about food consumption. Raw or cooked, organic or processed, whatever your personal decision might finally be, I see no benefits to ignorance. One of the things I love about hunting is the very realization that food cannot be taken for granted and that my right to eat only extends to my ability to procure food, be it through the industrial food chain or on my own."

4/3/2009 7:48:00 AM

hay guise, lets go back to the good old days. you know, the ones before FIRE. we were way healthier back then

4/3/2009 7:50:58 AM

^^Was waiting for that response. Sad that it took so long to get it.

4/3/2009 8:56:48 AM

Quote :

"But what's more likely is the professor told you it was wrong, gave you a reason, and BAM. Now you're an expert, right?"

actually, no. I never said I was an expert, I just told what I know about the subject. I also don't take everything said in a class without doubting, especially because of the opinionated attitudes of some of them. What was said about this made sense, I just failed to word it right on here apparently.

Quote :

"I'm sure that in your 30 second classroom discussion of raw diets, you considered the advantages and disadvantages, evidence from any relevant studies, human physiology, and human evolution."

30 seconds. LOL.

Quote :

"a) enzymes are the only reason people follow this diet (I seriously fucking doubt it) and b) they only eat raw veggies and fruits. what?"

nah, that was the reason that was mainly discussed in class, but from other sources I see that the main reason people do this is to lose weight or because they really believe cooking food is bad for you. and b, nuts and stuff, yeah. I'm sure there are people that eat only raw meat, but I didn't think that's what we were talking about. And I guess they can eat raw milk too. But for the main part, fruits and veggies.

4/3/2009 11:45:43 AM

Quote :

"actually, no. I never said I was an expert, I just told what I know about the subject. I also don't take everything said in a class without doubting, especially because of the opinionated attitudes of some of them. What was said about this made sense, I just failed to word it right on here apparently. "

ok, that's fine. but a far cry from your initial post that the diet was "pointless and not healthy". even if you had said "probably pointless", I wouldn't have cared.

Quote :

"^ are you saying humans could thrive on a meat only diet? i doubt that. where will the fiber and certain vitamins come from? it would definitely lead to death, imo."

yes, that's exactly what I'm saying (though to be clear not advocating):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson

Quote :

"Stefansson documented the fact that most Inuit lived on a diet of about 90% meat and fish, often going 6-9 months a year on nothing but meat and fish--essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely-observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal of the AMA, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat."

hai guyz.


I mean, I'm not a big conspiracy nut, but sometimes it freaks me out that so many people can believe so much misguided bullshit about their own health.

4/3/2009 8:10:41 PM

^ Interesting.

4/3/2009 9:13:21 PM

guy in that video is a lil too gay for me.

4/3/2009 9:26:17 PM