Talage, I just remembered one more thing. You called the suggestions I gave "bland". Fair enough, the taste of food is not an objective matter. But, after you call my stuff bland, you suggest pretzels? Really? Flour with salt? You call that "tasty"? Because it is flour with salt? Anyway, as I said, it is not an objective matter... no more discussion on this.

And as for your advice to check the fat content to make sure its <= 1g per 28g serving, if you knew anything about nutrition, you would know that if they actually had a bit more fat, say 3-4 grams in 28 grams, they would actually be 'healthier' from 2 points of view:

1) If there is more fat in them, the cancer causing ultra-pulverized white flour they are made of would be digested slower, and hence your blood sugar level won't fluctuate too much. This protects against many many life-style diseases.

2) If there is more fat in them, you would feel fuller for longer, because of the fat directly, and also because they would take longer to digest, so you would be less likely to eat again soon as compared to the ones with very low fat.

Sure, the fat itself could be a harmful kind (corn oil, sunflower oil, palm oil, partially hydrogenated oil, etc), and that would mean they would be less healthy than the low fat version. But overall, which effect is the stronger, the negative effect from the type of fat, or the positive effect from slower digestion, no one knows.

***********************************************************

Quote :

"0EPII1, you talk about how it's important to eat grains that are whole instead of "pulverized." does post brand shredded wheat cereal count as whole? I eat the plain kind where the only ingredient is whole grain wheat. but it seems like it's pounded into those little squares so it may not be as good as a truly whole grain."

Whole grain just means you have everything from the grain available to you. If you eat a grain of wheat (with the bran layer), it is whole grain. If you take the grain of wheat, and powderize it into a fine dust and then eat that, that's whole grain as well.

But, a big chunk of the modern scourge of lifestyle diseases (obesity, diabetes, heart problems, and even maybe cancers) are caused by white flour. White flour comes from grains whose bran layer is removed, which contains the fiber and other vital nutrients (vitamins, minerals, protein). Sometimes, the germ of the grain is also removed. The germ part inside a grain contain the embryonic plant and its food store. It has high quantities of many nutrients (vitamins, minerals, protein, good fat). The rest of the grain is just plain starch. Hardly any vitamins, minerals, fiber, or protein. (some grains DO have fiber throughout the grain, but most grains, including wheat don't). And when you powderize the grain with the bran removed, you get the shiny white flour, which is used to make almost all pastas and baked products available commercially.

Whole grain flour is better than white flour, because the bran, hence the fiber, is there. Fiber slows down digestion, releasing energy slowly into the body, not causing an insulin spike, and thus protecting from many diseases. And you also feel fuller for longer, so you won't get hungry again soon, so it protects you in that way as well.

But whole grain flour is still not that good, and in fact, is digested only a bit slower than white flour. The reason being, it is flour. That is, it is a powder. It is the grains broken into trillions of pieces, each piece so tiny that it is digested almost instantaneously.

The best thing is to eat actual grains, whether whole, or broken/cracked. They can be cooked in a variety of ways, for porridge, for a main dish accompanying meat, as a soup, as a stuffing of meats, as a roasted topping for salads, etc.

I realize it is not always convenient to do so. In that case, the best thing is to buy products made from whole grain flour where you can still see some bigger pieces in the product, some texture, whether it is cereal, or bread, or pasta. If the flour is a bit coarse, that's a lot lot better than highly fine flour. And cook whole/cracked grains as much as possible when time allows.

Don't buy bread that is squishy like a marshmallow, even if it is wholegrain. Buy chewy grainy bread with bits of grain in it, or seeds or added bran. Buy cereal that has added bran in it, or cereal that has added seeds, nuts, dried fruit, good fat, and the cereal itself appears a bit rough/coarse on the surface, and you can see some lil pieces of grain in it, even if a bit.

And for those who bake with flour, the best thing is to make your own flour. Buy the grains, and process them yourself to make the flour. This way you can control how coarse or fine the flour is. Of course, you don't want it so coarse that nothing can be baked out of it, but you also don't want it as fine as commercially available flour. Combine 50-50 of coarse and semi-fine flour to get a nice chewy grainy loaf. And also throw in some whole grains of wheat that have been soaking for 24 hours into the dough before you bake the bread.

Hope that helps.

4/12/2009 4:44:59 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/expert.q.a/04/10/water.losing.weight.jampolis/index.html

Quote :

"Can drinking lots of water help you lose weight? Asked by Tony, Shelton, Connecticut Is it true if you drink lots of water, it will help you to lose weight? Is it bad for your body if you consume too much of it?"

Quote :

"Expert answer By Diet and Fitness Expert Dr. Melina Jampolis Physician Nutrition Specialist Hi, Tony. Research does suggest that drinking plenty of water may help you lose weight. An abstract by Dr. Brenda Davy, associate professor of human nutrition, foods and exercise at Virginia Tech, presented at last year's obesity conference in Phoenix, Arizona, showed that people who drank two glasses of water 20 to 30 minutes before every meal lost weight more quickly initially and lost significantly more weight than those who didn't. In another study by Davy and her group, published last year in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, she found that people who drank water before meals ate an average of 75 fewer calories at that meal. This may not seem like much, but if you ate 75 fewer calories at lunch and dinner for the next year, you could lose about 14½ pounds! In addition, being even 1 percent dehydrated can cause a significant drop in metabolism, which can also interfere with weight loss. Finally, it is very difficult for the body to differentiate hunger from thirst. If you don't drink enough water throughout the day, you may mistake thirst for hunger and eat more than you really need, which can also impair weight loss. So staying well hydrated is important, particularly if you are trying to lose weight. And don't forget to eat lots of water-based foods like soups, vegetables and low-fat dairy, which are equally important for weight loss, as they lower the calorie density of meals. That can help you reduce calories without reducing portions. To answer the second part of your question, yes, drinking massive amounts of water (gallons and gallons) can cause a dangerous condition known as hyponatremia (low sodium levels in the blood), which can cause confusion, irritability and seizures and may even lead to a coma. This condition is very rare in healthy people but can sometimes be seen in the elderly or in endurance athletes who sweat significantly and drink water only to replace lost fluids. Most people should be far more concerned with not drinking enough water versus drinking too much."

4/12/2009 10:08:05 AM

^ Endurance athletes are likely to bonk from water only, and no electrolytes or calories. This is why you see Ironman people eating those nasty gels or chugging down sports drinks.

People will also lose weight from drinking only water, due to dropping the sugar and empty calories from common drinks: juice, sodas, alcoholic beverages, etc. Even straight coffee and tea have calories.

4/12/2009 5:41:36 PM

I don't care what people say about corn..but I LOVE polenta. Mmmmmmmmmmm.

Little bit of butter, little bit of cream. Some salt.

4/12/2009 6:15:43 PM

Quote :

"People will also lose weight from drinking only water, due to dropping the sugar and empty calories from common drinks:"

Yeah that's one of the reasons. The other 2 are listed in the article (you eat less, and your metabolism is speeded up).

Quote :

"Even straight coffee and tea have calories."

I wasn't aware of that. AFAIK, they have zero calories. Can you please show me anything to the contrary? And it has to be substantial. If each mug of tea or coffee has like 1 or 2 calories, it means nothing in terms of weight management.

Quote :

"I don't care what people say about corn..but I LOVE polenta."

You know what, I have never had polenta, as far as I know. I have always wondered about it, but never had a chance to eat it. I have had cornbread a few times though, and I like the taste and texture.

Anyway, it is made from refined cornmeal, from which the grain's bran and germ have been removed. So yeah, it is not 'wholegrain'. Cornbread is similar. Wholegrain corn meal is available, and can be used to make polenta or cornbread at home, but as with wheat, almost anything made from it commerically is made from refined flour.

4/12/2009 9:35:04 PM

I don't think it's refined.

I got the good stuff: the Bob's Red Mill brand.

Only ingredient listed on the package is, corn. Just finely ground.

I made some tonight. You should try. It goes with anything. I figured I'd try something new since I'm convinced I am gluten sensitive( see other thread).

I made a light cream sauce with turkey sausage bits and it tastes so good. Pour it on like gravy.

4/12/2009 9:42:21 PM

Now, there IS the instant variety, which I've never tried.

Stuff I got required 20-30 min of cooking.

4/12/2009 9:43:58 PM

^^^ Have you ever had grits? Close enough... Its basically a northerner's/italian's version of grits

4/12/2009 9:53:18 PM

^ Yeah I had grits once in the US, but didn't really like it. I always like my porridges sweet and with fruit, not savoury. Maybe it was just a bad one... I have a feeling I would like polenta/cooked cornmeal, as the taste of corn lends itself to savouriness.



^^ Ah, if you made it yourself and it was Bob's Red Mill, that's another story. I thought you bought some commercial variety, or worse yet, you get your polenta at restaurants

Bob's Red Mill products are available here, but only a limited variety. I have not seen the cornmeal here yet. My latest favorite is cracked rye. It is heavenly. I believe I posted my recipe on the previous page for an amazing porridge made from it.

Bob makes several corn products, all wholegrain, except for the polenta! Ingredient listed is "degermed corn". You can make polenta from their coarse grind cornmeal as well, which is wholegrain. If the package does not say 'Wholegrain', it is not wholegrain. 'Wholegrain' on a package is a selling point, so companies make sure to tout if their products really are wholegrain. And I believe Bob's Red Mill puts a red heart logo on their packaging if the product is wholegrain. (brown heart on the older packaging)

Another thing to remember is that the coarser the grind of the grain, the better it is for you. Ideally, the grain should only be broken into a couple to a few pieces. Worst is very fine flour, esp if it is not even wholegrain to begin with.

Here are the products. (I don't know which one you got... but you can check if you are interested But I think you got the Wholegrain Fine Grind Cornmeal)

Whole Grain Corn Flour
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3469&cat=107&page=1
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3623&cat=107&page=1 (organic)

Golden Masa Harina Corn Flour
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3589&cat=107&page=1

Wholegrain Fine Grind Cornmeal
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3940&cat=107&page=1

Wholegrain Medium Grind Cornmeal
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3559&cat=107&page=1
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3553&cat=107&page=1 (organic)

Wholegrain Coarse Grind Cornmeal
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3520&cat=107&page=1

Corn Grits--Polenta (not wholegrain)
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3636&cat=107&page=1
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3542&cat=107&page=1 (organic)

Wholegrain White Cornmeal
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3467&cat=107&page=1

Wholegrain Blue Cornmeal
http://www.bobsredmill.com/product.php?productid=3581&cat=107&page=1


I really want to try that last one!

4/12/2009 10:19:46 PM

OP, I am no fitness guru at all but I will tell you what worked for me. Last year I was 228 lbs and lost 50 lbs from Jan-May (minus March b/c I went on a cruise and went to ACC/NCAA hoops tourny so I didn't lose much weight that month).

Every morning I would wake up early and head to the gym. I would get on the treadmill and get in a quick two miles before I went to work. I started off walking and running as much as I could and by the end I was running almost the entire time (yes I still can't run two miles straight b/c I smoke (not cigs) and it kills me).

After my workout I would go home and take a shower and eat a decent breakfast. I would eat a few pieces of toast and some fruit with a few glasses of water.

I would go to work and eat a decent lunch (if at all), just enough to fill me up.

After I would get off work I would head back to the gym and run a mile to get warmed up. I would then lift for about an hour on different machines (yeah muscle freaks I said machines and not free weights, might not be the best but it worked).

After lifting I would run/walk another mile to cool down before I left.

When I would go home I would make a small dinner every night. It was usually something like a chicken breast or two thin pork chops, a cup of cheerios or something to fill me up and some fruit with water. My daily calorie intake was around 1k and some days it was around 600 if I skipped lunch.

I did that everyday for a long time and the weight just fell off so fast. I completely cut out eating fast food and to this day I only eat fast food maybe once a month (Bojangles is my weakness). I never drank any sodas except for the occasional diet coke. If I ever got really hungry I would eat a cup of cheerios or if I got a sweet tooth I would eat a yogurt. It wasn't easy, but if you really want to lose weight you have to be dedicated to it.

Of course this might not work for everyone, but it worked for me and that is all that matters. Hope this helps you out anyway possible.

4/13/2009 12:08:21 AM

wow I couldn't live on 600-1000 calories.
That's like starving yourself.
Of coursed it worked.

4/13/2009 12:32:54 AM

This is what I bought.

Maybe I'm not understanding 'whole grain' then.

I thought this was whole corn kernals, just ground up finely. Then what is this?

4/13/2009 12:44:11 AM

this is the end of my first week and i lost 1% body fat and 2 lbs . thanks everybody for all the useful info keep it coming. here's a few things i've noticed that may help other people

1) stop eating out period. fast food is awful, but a lot of sit down places aren't too much better. cheating gets easier every time you do it.
2)be wary of reduced fat foods.most replace the fat w/ sugar which is bad in most cases i.e. peanut butter.
3) friends-try to get friends with your same goals(don't go with your model friends) and at least as motivated as you( you don't wanna be the one convincing them to workout)
4) finally don't worry about #'s so much. 99% of us are losing weight with 1 thing in mind ... looking good naked. so while i only lost 2lbs this week i can literally see my body changing for the better.

lets keep it goin

4/13/2009 3:26:01 AM

^ That's great... I was just about to post to ask what happened with the OP... we wanted an update. Keep it up and good luck.


^^ Remember what I said earlier in my mini grain anatomy lesson? The grain consists of the bran (outer layer), the germ (embryonic plant and food store), and the endosperm (the rest of the grain, which is almost all just starch).

On the packet in the picture you posted, it says "Corn grits are simply coarsely ground bits of degerminated corn."

That means the germ part of the grains has been removed, and the germ part is highly nutritious, containing high quantities of protein, fiber, vitamins, minerals, and fat.

Because the germ contains fat, if flour is made from wholegrains, or if wholegrains are broken, they go bad faster than if the flour is made from degerminated grains. (due to exposure of fat to air, the fat gets oxidized, and the flour then smells rancid/off) That's the reason all commercially available flours are made from refined grains (to prolong shelf life), but then that's what makes them highly harmful, because they are just starch, and they are finely powdered. But, if wholegrain flour is refrigerated/frozen, it can last several months, even a year or more. (I store all my Bob's Red Mill packets in the freezer)

Anyway, in the case of Bob's Red Mill, I am surprised that their Polenta is degerminated, because their cornmeals and cornfour are wholegrain, and they are a lot finer than the polenta (the finer the flour/meal, the quicker it would go bad if from wholegrains). Also, it doesn't say, but I am quite sure that the bran has been partially removed as well.

If you care, then next time you can get their "Wholegrain Coarse Grind Cornmeal". It should be as coars as the polenta, but a lot more nutritious, and I would say even better tasting because of the germ being present.

You can also check the nutrition facts:

Polenta:
6 grams fiber/100 grams
No iron

Cornmeal:
15 grams fiber/100 grams
6% of DV of iron in 33 grams

4/13/2009 9:59:55 AM

^great posts man, I'm glad you've hijacked this thread and focused more on nutrition than anything else, it truly is the most important factor along with willpower to get in shape

i've lost over 100lbs in just over a year now through diet/exercise and my general rule of thumb for my meals is:

1 serving whole grain - 150-200 cals
1 serving lean protein - 100-150 cals
1 serving fruit or veggie - 20-100 cals
1/2 serving healthy fat - 50-100 cals

5-6 meals/day, my macros come out roughly 20/40/40...when i do keto I run ~60/3/37

pretty easy to mix n match and make some tasty & filling meals.....it's fun to cheat now and watch my body bloat, when you go minimal salt, 0 HFCS, eat clean etc for 2 weeks and then binge for a weekend....man, I can gain 10lbs and poo it out within 3 days....fun times with my new incinerator for a body

4/13/2009 3:36:54 PM

I would have to say that I disagree that nutrition is the most important factor. I do not mean to diminish the importance of nutrition at all, but I think that a lot of people go on diets and then burn out because they don't lose any weight or, in order to lose weight, they have to go on a completely impractical and unsustainable diet.

I think that physical activity and exercise is equally important with nutrition. I know, this is a big fat "duh," but the point is that most dieters only pay lip service to exercise and then wonder why they can't meet their targets or why they can't keep the weight off.

I think we should over-emphasize the importance of exercise in an attempt to compensate for the over-emphasis on diet that you see in the weight-loss milieu.


[Edited on April 13, 2009 at 5:39 PM. Reason : s]

4/13/2009 5:35:29 PM

Can someone delineate the advantages of free weights vs. machines? I use free weights and stability ball under the premise that gravity and instability make you work harder. I can see using machines in rehab to focus on particular muscles (if you pulled a groin muscle, for example).

4/13/2009 7:37:54 PM

The barrier to entry is also much lower with machines. For someone who is just starting out, it can be a lot simpler to just sit down at a machine than try to look a fool with dumbbells in front of a big mirror next to people with perfect form, etc.

Which brings up the next best thing about machines - they can help to enforce proper form. If you're just starting out, you might not be thinking about back position etc. as you use free weights. Although its very possible to have bad form on a machine, it at least guides you a little bit into a safer body position.

IMO, no beginner should ever be scoffed at for using a machine. OTOH, its better for a beginner to use free weights and focus on their core rather than the major muscle groups.

4/13/2009 7:59:19 PM

Quote :

"What are some good snack ideas? I've been looking and looking, but I'm having trouble finding stuff I actually like. "

I eat a lot of dried fruit (apricots, kiwis, etc), but it can be expensive depending on where you go. It's cheapest at the farmer's market -- The Berry Patch carries a large assortment.

I've recently become obsessed with these shot-sized yogurts, too.

I guess it depends what kind of "snacking" you do...I was never one to sit and just chow on potato chips in front of the TV, so idk.

4/14/2009 4:05:11 PM

Be careful with dried fruits. Many of them have a TON of sugar and way more calories than regular fruit.

Regular fruit is a great snack. Beef/turkey/chicken/etc. jerky are pretty good as well, low fat and low calorie but are pretty expensive.

4/14/2009 4:10:26 PM

^good call.
Yes, you definitely need to check the ingredients on dried fruits. The apricots I get have just natural sugars, but the kiwi ones are slightly candied.

I find they're a lot cheaper than fresh fruit though.

4/14/2009 4:14:05 PM

dried fruits are too calorie dense for my taste, if i need a snack, I'll reach for the real fruit first

4/14/2009 6:37:14 PM

yes, dry fruit has more sugar (i am not talking about added sugar) gram per gram than fresh fruit, and that's because it is dehydrated, duh. when you eat fresh fruit, you also consume a lot of water in the fruit, so it makes you fuller.

but with dry fruit, there is a danger of eating too much of it because it is not making you full, even though you might have consumed as much 2-3 times the fresh fruit you would normally eat.

the way to avoid that is to drink 1-2 glasses of water with each handful of dry fruit you eat. there is no way you would still want more.

and to slow down the sugar release from dry fruit, eat dry fruit with nuts. eat a handful of each, and you will have had one of the most nutritious snacks on the planet, giving you some protein, good amounts of good fat, good amount of fiber, lots of vitamins and minerals, and a good balance of complex carbs and sugars. and make sure to drink lots of water with nuts and with dry fruit.

a handful of each, with 2 tall glasses of water, should keep anybody full for a couple of hours.

as for dry fruit with added sugar, yeah, please don't even consider it.

and of course, fresh fruit with nuts is equally as good. still, don't forget the water.

best choices for dry fruit:

*natural apricots (not the bright f'ing orange sulphured ones... those taste horrible), they will be brown in color... if you have never had the natural ones, you will be blown away by the taste
*figs
*prunes
*raisins
*berries

nuts:

*almonds
*cashews
*macadamias
*walnuts/pecans
*pistachios
*hazelnuts
*brazil nuts
*pine nuts


(lists are in no particular order)



[Edited on April 14, 2009 at 6:48 PM. Reason : ]

4/14/2009 6:44:13 PM

I wanted to reply to this thread, but there's plenty of good advice already and I really can't think of anything to add.

So yeah, good luck.

4/15/2009 5:19:50 AM

can anyone recommend some good exercise specifically for fat burn? I have been doing about 45 minutes of cardio daily for the last 5 weeks and recently started some light lifting at least 3 days a week. I'm concerned that lifting weights, while important, may not be the only thing I should be adding to my normal routine.

I'm working on my diet with a lot of OEP's advice, I hardly eat anything for breakfast and I think that may be one of the biggest things holding me back from making solid progress. since I started exercising daily and eating better I haven't even lost weight, I've managed to put on 2 pounds. I was certain that after a month I would start to see promising results.

4/15/2009 6:55:59 PM

If you want a specific exercise that will make you burn fat, then you have to really work your major leg muscles (squats, etc)

[Edited on April 15, 2009 at 7:06 PM. Reason : s]

4/15/2009 7:05:52 PM

look into heart rate training for fat burn

i got a v02 test done and learned which zones i burn in and trained my body to burn more fat in higher heart rate zones

sure i was burning more fat in the lower zone at first but i had to stay there FOREVER to make a difference. if i just started running i'd be burning all sugar so i went in between zones for up to 90 min and toward the end the goal is to burn more fat in higher zones so if i go for a run, i burn more fat calories than sugar calories and in a shorter period of time

im not an expert and someone else can prob explain that better than me but it worked, i lost around 10lbs and my clothes fit way way better. you know you're doing something right when you get compliments on your toned legs when you're wearing JEANS

4/15/2009 7:06:28 PM

Quote :

"I hardly eat anything for breakfast and I think that may be one of the biggest things holding me back from making solid progress."

It is.


Refer up where he said to eat a lot at breakfast and taper off with smaller meals throughout the day. The goal is to get your body to burn fat while you sleep.

Right now, if you're not eating in the right manner, your body doesn't know when or where or how the next meal is coming, so it hordes the fat, like a bear about to hibernate for the winter.

4/15/2009 8:22:29 PM

eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a queen and dinner like a pauper

if you're going to eat something bad, do it as early in the day as possible so you have the rest of the day to burn it

take the stairs!! omg i cannot tell you how many opportunities there are for this. its easy and effective

just as easily as calories add up, you can also burn them off so take every shot you have

4/15/2009 8:49:47 PM

^^maybe I just didn't read (okay I didn't), but it sounds like you're talking about the body being in starvation mode...just not eating breakfast is not the same as eating less than 1000 calories total for the day

^not necessarily true

eating calories all at night vs spreading it out during the day (as an extreme example) will have a very small effect...total calories always win

[Edited on April 15, 2009 at 8:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/15/2009 8:57:35 PM

of course, a calorie is a calorie

and no one should be skipping meals, it lowers your metabolism, as does not drinking enough water

4/15/2009 9:19:30 PM

I'm interested to see where that fact came from and to what degree it actually matters

have any studies or research?

4/15/2009 10:34:34 PM

Quote :

"of course, a calorie is a calorie"

except that's not true at all.

4/15/2009 10:44:35 PM

Yeah, there are empty calories and worthwhile ones.



Empty ones are the shit you get from junk food, and worthwhiles come from the things you should be eating. Worthwhile calories actually come along with nutrients that help keep the body healthy.

Quote :

"^^maybe I just didn't read (okay I didn't), but it sounds like you're talking about the body being in starvation mode...just not eating breakfast is not the same as eating less than 1000 calories total for the day"

well just think about it logically - it's not starvation mode at all.

It's fueling your body on an as-needed basis, front-loading the system instead of back-loading it.

If you eat breakfast in the morning, and follow it with smaller meals progressively through out the day, you're building stores of energy for your body that are readily available through its most active periods. When you're asleep, your body needs to burn less energy to keep you alive, but it still burns off energy.

Under the same accord, skipping breakfast causes your metabolism to get off track - if the food is not there, the body pulls back on burning off the food stores because it is effectively unaware of when the next substantial influx of energy is going to come from. Eating a big lunch doesn't do ANYTHING to counteract that - it just compounds the problem. Now you have whatever the body held on to, plus this new batch, plus any subsequent batches. It's a really good way to throw your metabolism into disarray. That's why one of the most important things to dieting is consistency in meal patterns.

[Edited on April 15, 2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2009 10:52:03 PM

OPRAH TOLD ME SO

4/15/2009 10:54:24 PM

yes, a calorie is a calorie

empty calories are still calories, they just dont fill you up

you can eat 4000 calories and still have a hungry tummy or 1200 and be totally satisfied

everyone knows you need to burn more calories than you consume to lose weight. now if you want to talk abut nutrition and being healthy... then where you're getting your calories from becomes more important (and for the record, everyone should be concerned with this, i'm just making a point)

4/16/2009 9:23:02 AM

yep ^, simple example:

You can eat a pound of chicken for around 500 calories
You can eat two small bags of chips for around 500 calories

It's obvious which will fill you up more.

4/16/2009 9:57:58 AM

^one of them is more likely to be stored as fat and cause insulin problems, and one is more likely to be stored as glycogen, build muscle, and result in more calories being burned by digestion. So no, the simple analysis of a calorie is a calorie is wrong on so many levels.

4/16/2009 11:25:20 AM

Not to mention varying absorption rates whether the calorie is coming from fat, carbs, proteins, etc.

4/16/2009 12:57:32 PM

Don't listen to Duckillers advice! That is all.

4/16/2009 3:08:18 PM

so now that i've got the hard part of actually getting in the gym out of the way i have a new question.
my main goal is really to lose fat,increase definition and maintain size. should i be lifting using conventional methods? i typically do 2 muscle groups/day 3sets x 3exercises per group. should i be doing higher reps or higher weight? i've also heard about muscle confusion by doing fewer exercises but encompassing all the muscle groups in 1 session. what's the most efficient path to my goals?

4/16/2009 5:45:11 PM

I would recommend alternating your workouts (the muscle groups actually) between hi rep/lo weight and lo rep/hi weight.

For example, one week, do your whole body with hi reps/lo weight. The next week, use lo reps/hi weight. And so on. Are you working out your whole body more than once a week? In that case, make sure that if you worked out, say chest, last time with hi reps/lo weight, next time it is lo reps/hi weight.

But you shouldn't be working out all muscle groups more than once a week, if you work out properly.

However, I must say here, I do not know as much about lifting regimens and program design as I do about nutrition, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

As for muscle confusion, I don't think it refers to what you said, but to changing around exercises, order of muscle groups, reps/weight combination, etc., every few months to prevent a plateau. But that's mostly if you are trying to gain muscle, and stop getting results after a few months.

4/16/2009 6:47:52 PM

Typically, lower weight/higher reps results in more strength and endurance, while higher weight and lower reps results in more muscle mass.

I think if you want to lose weight, you should try to increase muscle mass, because I believe that the more mass you have, the more calories you should burn while you're sleeping/sitting (does anyone know if this is correct?)

HOWEVER - regardless of whether or not more mass burns more fat, since you are out of shape and just a beginner, I would highly recommend that you AVOID higher weight and lower reps and in fact avoid "weight-lifting" altogether for the first few months. Instead, try to fill your exercise regimen with core strengthening exercises. This can be done with calisthenics and you can sometimes pair up small (3-5lb) weights with them to make it more intense.

It is very important to strengthen your minor supporting muscles before you try to begin strength training. I made the mistake a while ago (I'm pretty out of shape, myself) of not following this advice. I did ok for the first couple of months, but my back and core muscles were so weak that I ended up straining my back really bad, because the amount of sheer weight that my chest muscles could push exceeded the weight that my neglected back muscles could help stabilize.

The good thing about being at a gym is that they have all kinds of equipment to make this easier for you. They should have those surgical rubber tubes, a machine to assist your pull-ups, and probably even some grips to give you an easier push-up. Don't forget to start pivoting from your knees when you can't do a full push-up anymore.

[Edited on April 17, 2009 at 8:03 AM. Reason : s]

4/17/2009 8:02:19 AM

^ A stability ball works wonders for increasing your core strength, especially if you do crunches, push-ups, etc. while partly on the ball. I would also recommend the plank position, and side rollouts, where you push the ball away from your side while being on one knee. Other good ball exercises are squats, jackknifes, and lunges.

4/17/2009 9:25:02 AM

Quote :

"I believe that the more mass you have, the more calories you should burn while you're sleeping/sitting (does anyone know if this is correct?)"

A pound of muscle burns ~35 calories per day at rest. That muscle is going to burn more calories when you put it to use and your metabolism can go up for 20+ hours after a workout; so the benefit is a little bit better than that 35 calories would indicate.

I think this is an admirable long term goal, but you can't put muscle on that fast. Professional bodybuilders strive for ~4 lbs per month. And that's working out for hours per day with a dietitian and massive amounts of food. It's probably more likely that your normal person might put on a pound of muscle per month if they work hard. After 12 months of this your basal metabolic rate is going to be notably higher than it was the previous year. It's a great added benefit, but if your goal is to cut weight you're certainly not going to start by spending a year putting on muscle.

^ Speaking of stability...I need a skateboard deck if anyone has one to spare. Old/beat up is ok. I want to build a balance board since I don't see the point in paying $80 for an Indo board.

[Edited on April 17, 2009 at 9:49 AM. Reason : l]

4/17/2009 9:43:21 AM

stopdrop

have you had your body fat measured? most gyms will do it for free and it only takes a few minutes.

i would recommend getting that measured now and again later when you feel like you've made progress so you can actually measure what you're going after

just because you dont feel fatter doesnt mean the % has gone down. a lot of people (mostly girls, to be fair) think they lost fat and got skinny, when in fact they lost muscle mass and they're just smaller, but not less fat and certainly not more healthy.

4/17/2009 10:49:50 AM

Quote :

"Typically, lower weight/higher reps results in more strength and endurance, while higher weight and lower reps results in more muscle mass. yes and no. Strength range is typically in the 3-5 range, hypertrophy 8-12, and endurance in the 12-15+ (there is a little crossover in the 5-8 range between strength and hypertrophy). Generally at the end of the day, however, eating more calories than you burn will have you gaining "mass" I think if you want to lose weight, you should try to increase muscle mass, because I believe that the more mass you have, the more calories you should burn while you're sleeping/sitting (does anyone know if this is correct?) HOWEVER - regardless of whether or not more mass burns more fat, since you are out of shape and just a beginner, I would highly recommend that you AVOID higher weight and lower reps and in fact avoid "weight-lifting" altogether for the first few months. This is terrible advice. Just because someone is a beginner doesn't mean they should completely cut out a properly structured weight-training program. They should begin slow and in the higher rep range (1-2 sets of 12-15 until they're body adapts), but definitely should DO some weights. It is very important to strengthen your minor supporting muscles before you try to begin strength training. I made the mistake a while ago (I'm pretty out of shape, myself) of not following this advice. I did ok for the first couple of months, but my back and core muscles were so weak that I ended up straining my back really bad, because the amount of sheer weight that my chest muscles could push exceeded the weight that my neglected back muscles could help stabilize. ...or maybe you had poor programming and neglected to work your back and chest equally creating instability that lead to your problems. Again, a PROPERLY designed program (with properly chosen exercises) is a good idea. The good thing about being at a gym is that they have all kinds of equipment to make this easier for you. They should have those surgical rubber tubes, a machine to assist your pull-ups, and probably even some grips to give you an easier push-up. Don't forget to start pivoting from your knees when you can't do a full push-up anymore."

4/17/2009 2:01:32 PM

^ agree with all of that.

weight training is a very important part of overall health and well being, considering that most of us lead relatively sedentary lives.

if we were still hunting and gathering our food, we wouldn't need weight training at all. but since we're not running through the woods, climbing trees and sheer rock faces, swimming to the bottom of rivers, chasing after rabbits, etc, we need weight training to balance out all of those muscle building and maintaining activities that we don't do.

Telling people not to weight train and only do cardio is a bad thing. There needs to be that push-pull of a well designed workout plan in order to maintain the body properly.


speaking of that, there's something that I really want to try called method naturelle that was featured in Men's health last month.

[Edited on April 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM. Reason : .]

4/17/2009 3:45:52 PM

Quote :

"Telling people not to weight train and only do cardio is a bad thing. There needs to be that push-pull of a well designed workout plan in order to maintain the body properly."

If you're replying to me, I never said to only do cardio. I said to initially focus on core strengthening exercises and calisthenics.

I'm not saying that you should avoid using any sort of weights at all. I'm just saying that a complete newbie should focus on core strengthening exercises before moving to things like "make me look like superman" chest press and curls.

Its funny that PackMan92 brings up proper form, because without strengthening the minor muscles first, it will probably be impossible for a complete beginner to do much more than a few pounds on any type of weightlifting exercise while maintaining proper form. The reason I emphasize the importance of core exercises and encourage beginners to stay away from the normal weightlifting routine is because a beginner is likely to be very dissatisfied with curling a 3lb weight using perfect form and instead use worse form, without even knowing it, so he can lift more weight. (Look Ma, I'm getting stronger!)

Now, of course, you have qualified everything you said with, "in a perfectly planned regimen <exercise> will work perfectly". That's what we call a tautology. I am speaking to the 90% of us who are making an extreme effort to even set foot into the gym, much less do the research or pay for a trainer to give us a "perfect regimen". Not to mention the fact that even if a beginner was set up with a perfect regimen, their form would most liekly very quickly deteriorate without a dedicated trainer ($$$).

There's no scientific consensus on what will work best for all people, though, so in the end it just boils down to whatever your goals are and whatever keeps you coming back to the gym.



[Edited on April 17, 2009 at 5:19 PM. Reason : s]

4/17/2009 5:04:23 PM

^ Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were saying not to do weight training at all.

While I see where you are coming from, I think you might be confusing lesser-used (and hence lesser worked) muscle groups with "smaller" muscles.

That's where having a very well structured weight lifting plan comes into place.

True, it all comes down to self motivation in the end, but if a person has a crib sheet for what they're to do, it makes it a hundred times easier. Form is the same thing. If you have shitty form, and you let yourself get away with it, that's no one's fault but your own.

Personal fortitude doesn't always correlate with a person's desire, no matter how much everyone would like it to. That is why PTs exist, but some people don't need them at all.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people wandering haplessly around the weight room, just going from machine to machine or exercise to exercise with no real rhyme or reason.



Anyway, as i was saying before - if you look at your body and the way it is constructed, you will understand how to avoid problems like you had.

Every chest exercise - a push, needs a back exercise - a pull.

Every bicep curl needs a correlating triceps extension. Not necessarily in the same workout, but soon enough to balance everything out.

Balance, balance, balance.

4/17/2009 5:49:11 PM