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6/24/2009 5:37:02 PM

thats why i said my case. i see a trap when i see one

6/24/2009 5:39:17 PM

trix are for kids.

[Edited on June 24, 2009 at 5:56 PM. Reason : .]

6/24/2009 5:55:49 PM

DeltaBeta's overconfidence in this thread is hilarious.

6/24/2009 7:28:45 PM

north korea gets more bat shit insane every year. i defended them for years but now i can't even convince myself.

6/24/2009 7:43:01 PM

Whatever, faggot. I read about North Korea every hour last week.

I win this thread.

6/24/2009 8:00:44 PM

Quote :

"To be fair, the US has spent the last 40 years learning from mistakes made in Vietnam."

one of which was listening to anything the CIA says.....lets hope history doesn't repeat itself

6/24/2009 8:19:17 PM

And if we're going into reasons why we lost that war, we could name many issues which would likely be different for a war with NK than it would be in comparison with Vietnam. Enough to say that we don't really know what sort of shitstorm that a war with NK could result in.

I'd say the initial losses for us would suck terribly and hundreds of thousands of civilians could die initially from an artillery bombardment on Seoul, but we would quickly make up for this by bombing them flat wherever we found them (once we were able to bring our air force & navy to bear). From there it would be a matter of trying to support SK and figure out how to get troops into SK to help with the war effort. All in all it would be a pain in the dick.

It'd be nice if NK would quit trying to start a war that ends up looking like it's our fault (e.g. if you board our ships that are carrying contraband materials we'll declare all out war on you). Just seems like they want a goddamn war these days. They have zero chance of wiping us out, but they could easily prove to be a pain in the ass and lead to a return to the draft as a source for troops, should there not be enough super patriotic individuals who want to sign up for the armed services. I really wish they would just get to the point for whatever they want this time instead of just escalating tensions beyond their usual limit.

6/24/2009 8:32:23 PM

Just a week or so ago Kim or his admin said

Quote :

"If the US interferes in/strikes at our nuclear program, we will give a 1,000-fold response."

I thought that was a lot more powerful as far as hyperbole goes.

1,000-fold? For every bomb that is dropped on them, they will fire a 1,000?

Fuckin psychotic.

6/24/2009 8:33:23 PM

the nk leaders are detached from reality

6/24/2009 8:41:22 PM

^^ Perhaps for every bomb we drop on them, they will explode 1,000 bombs on themselves?

That'd make things easier.

6/24/2009 8:42:24 PM

Quote :

"the nk leaders are detached from reality"

agreed

6/24/2009 10:48:48 PM

i seriously doubt the nk leaders actually want war

who knows what the fuck they are doing

6/24/2009 11:05:12 PM

it's called "rattling the saber"

if they start shit, I don't think we should nuke 'em, but i'm not opposed to firebombing them dresden-style

6/24/2009 11:32:24 PM

I think you are underestimating the SK military, they arn't as big of a pushover like last time we fought the NKs, plus I doubt China will be backing the NKs as much as last time if it came to a war, and you cant win anything with only bombing. The current US strategy is apparently to fuck up everyone with an extreme prejudice then rebuild a democratic nation state to justify us fucking there shit up.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason : fuck spelling]

6/25/2009 12:03:55 AM

honestly, I think we could just bomb the shit out of them and let the SK army go in with some food and other aid/supplies. I don't think they'd really have that hard of a time winning over most of the country and getting large number of NK soldiers to defect.

6/25/2009 12:43:10 AM

The annoying thing about North Korea is their ~20,000 pre-aimed pieces of artillery. The South Koreans have the same set up. The first few hours of an all-out conflict would be devastating to both sides. Just about everything worth shooting at within artillery range of the DMZ on both sides probably has at least 2 cannons already aimed and them and ready to go. Everyone I know in the military that's worked in the theater has said that there would be five figures worth of dead on the Korean peninsula before any meaningful air-campaign against the North Koreans could be launched.

6/25/2009 12:53:58 AM

Sounds about right...I was stationed at Osan in 1999-2000. I remember them telling us that a MiG could make it there in about 6 minutes or so and one of their missiles in about 3 assuming we had no advance warning. Of course there are patriot missile batteries everywhere pointing north so we hope they knock some of the missiles down.

I was an avionics guy and they basically told us if the shit went down it was our job to launch all aircraft and then sit around and wait to be overrun. Thank God I'm not there now...they've clearly gotten much crazier in the past 10 years...

6/25/2009 5:01:33 AM

Looks to me that there's about 4 small cities that might be within bombardment range from howitzers. Accurate hits require forward observers. I'm not sure the artillery would significantly hurt SK.

6/25/2009 6:14:51 AM

holy crap that article referenced by Mr Grace is so awful, I can't even pick just one terrible quote to laugh at

6/25/2009 6:17:30 AM

^^ This is true (regarding forward observers), but they have artillery pieces that can fire long range and hit Seoul. Seoul is a big urban area (if you look on google maps it looks like it's about 6 miles by 12 miles in size as far as "urbanized enough to hit something of interest" goes), and they don't really need to hit something with precision fire as long as they know they're hitting something.

With Kim's youngest son being appointed head of the secret police, I don't see where the transition of power is. Perhaps he's going to put a different son in charge of a different organization all the way up to the point where he decides to replace himself (perhaps with his oldest son?). That's going to take a goddamn long time.

6/25/2009 6:24:00 AM

^They can hit Seoul with artillery? Do they have damned 10"+ permanently mounted batteries to assault Seoul or something?

6/25/2009 6:43:24 AM

Quote :

"It'd be nice if NK the US would quit trying to start a war that ends up looking like it's our fault .... Just seems like they want a goddamn war these days. They have zero chance of wiping us out, but they could easily prove to be a pain in the ass"

-Iraq, 2003

6/25/2009 7:04:29 AM

the deltabeta vs. mr grace argument on the first page was one of the better, most sophisticated arguments I've seen on TWW in some time.

GG

6/25/2009 7:09:55 AM

Quote :

"^They can hit Seoul with artillery? Do they have damned 10"+ permanently mounted batteries to assault Seoul or something?"

You are familiar with the other forms of artillery used by virtually all modern armies, yes? Not everything is a 120mm howitzer.

Somebody else also brought this up already on another forum, so I'll just link to the picture of a ridiculous dick attached to a tank body and the thread itself.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158047

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/images/m1989dprkcdf001.jpg

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 7:17 AM. Reason : ^^ Hi, this isn't about that. Please take your agenda elsewhere as we all know your views already.]

6/25/2009 7:17:13 AM

^Wasn't aware that the SP howitzers were ranged so much more significantly than a towable 155mm. Damn, the rocket assisted shells making 35 mi. range would be just terrible. I suspect that rocket and missile production would be much lower than the possibility of shell production, and having Seoul right there in shelling range in unfortunate.

Oh well. Fuck it, let's park the U.S.S. Iowa off the NK coast. I'm sure the Navy is damn ready to fire a battleship's guns in anger again.

6/25/2009 7:51:40 AM

So basically, it'd be like the 2009 US military vs the 1942 germans as far as munitions and technology.

6/25/2009 9:49:12 AM

Quote :

"Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans packed Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack."

does it seem to anyone else that NK is puffing their chest out for no real reason? I mean it doesnt seem like we are doing anything to suggest that we are going to start a war with them unless they provoke us...

6/25/2009 2:54:49 PM

maybe that's the point...they're TRYING to provoke us

kinda like the snotty kid brother who pokes his older sibling until the older sib hauls off and slugs him...then the kid brother starts crying (except in this case, the kid brother whips out a pistol and begins to shoot at the older sib with his eyes closed)

6/25/2009 2:58:37 PM

Quote :

"So basically, it'd be like the 2009 US military vs the 1942 germans as far as munitions and technology."

I'd say more like the 1945 Soviets as I feel like human wave attacks are going to happen.

Quote :

"I mean it doesnt seem like we are doing anything to suggest that we are going to start a war with them unless they provoke us"

Who knows what state controlled media is saying in NK.

6/25/2009 2:59:07 PM

its your typical barfight shit talk.

"man if that dude fucks with me again, i'll fuck him up"

6/25/2009 2:59:43 PM

i hope im not on the planet to see the first nuclear war

shit aint right.

6/25/2009 3:01:16 PM

AK-47 EQUIPPED AZNS

6/25/2009 3:02:10 PM

Any chance the rest of the world see this and sympathizes with the US?

Like...
"Man, these North Koreans are crazy motherfuckers. What did America do to deserves this?"

6/25/2009 3:02:29 PM

^ i thought that russia and the chinese have already said that the NKs are crazy and that they don't support this posturing?

6/25/2009 3:05:38 PM

Obviously war is awful, but I'd love to see "M*A*S*H: The Next Generation" on tv soon.

6/25/2009 3:06:59 PM

^^ That is true to my knowledge.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 3:08:36 PM

alright, I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels like we didnt do anything to provoke this shit, I thought I was missing something

I guess the only reason they have to want to fight us is the fact that we are trailing one of their ships. Seems like they should have a bigger beef with the UN for their rules, etc. But I guess they just have the little brother syndrome where they want to prove they are a big dog by picking a fight against the biggest kid in the yard

6/25/2009 3:08:39 PM

Quote :

"Obviously war is awful, but I'd love to see "M*A*S*H: The Next Generation" on tv soon."

6/25/2009 3:09:55 PM

So who is on NK's side here?


US/Russia/China/SK/Japan vs North Korea? Seriously, WTF???


NK is doing a nice job of rallying patriotism among its isolated population only because the citizens know nothing of the world outside their own country, but that's all they got. Someone high up in the country has got to understand that all this blustering on their party is a HORRIBLE idea and that they don't stand a chance if this blows into a full on war. I can't imagine that the ENTIRE country is this pig-headed...

6/25/2009 3:13:48 PM

If North Korea attacks South Korea, Japan will respond even faster than we will.

6/25/2009 3:15:57 PM

i don't know that there are any "sides", per se

let's just say that NK is talking big, but doesn't APPEAR to have any friends waiting around to try to kick our collective ass...maybe they're hiding in an alley somewhere...

6/25/2009 3:16:06 PM

A lot of people will die if the North starts a war, but the North Korean war machine is a joke. They can barely feed their population, let alone sustain a campaign longer than a year.

6/25/2009 3:18:12 PM

War on the korean peninsula???? Who is gonna make our iphones now?!?!?!?

6/25/2009 3:18:53 PM

theDuke866 showed me this picture, showing the disparity of technology, and even light in NK:

6/25/2009 3:18:56 PM

The Ryugyong Hotel in Pyongyang cracks me up.



Between 1989 and 1992 they put 2% of their GDP into building it but then ran out of money and basically abandoned it. Now theres a 102 story crackhouse in the middle of their capitol.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 3:23 PM. Reason : smaller]

6/25/2009 3:22:43 PM

Quote :

"So who is on NK's side here? US/Russia/China/SK/Japan vs North Korea? Seriously, WTF???"

I think it is US vs NK with all the rest of the world too pussy to stand up to anybody especially our so called allies in the UN

6/25/2009 3:23:28 PM

^^ that's their plan! don't you see it? it's a GIANT ROCKETSHIP!!

6/25/2009 3:24:19 PM

Yeah, why is it always the US who has to police these UN sanctions and look like the bad guy? Why can't someone over there do it?

6/25/2009 3:26:02 PM

^exactly, it makes us an easy target for criticism from the rest of the world

why cant fucking england or germany or anyone else step up for once

6/25/2009 3:30:41 PM