page 2 compares 2 sports

6/25/2009 1:41:39 PM

Internationally, yes

But to Americans, talking about soccer is like telling someone about your kids or the dream you had last night

They just don't care

6/25/2009 1:41:56 PM

Another big point about soccer is the time it takes to develop an attacking chance. One pretty important aspect to soccer is to possess the ball, a lot of time in the back field. This can make for a kinda slow game. But suddenly someone will make a great run in the midfield and suddenly you are in the opponents half of the field. Two or three passes/dribbles later you can have a scoring opportunity. A lot of times its going to get shutdown earlier than that though.

But the development of the scoring chance while maintaining possession of the ball is part of the fun in watching soccer, you just have to be patient and wait for it to develop. I think this is partly why TV stays so zoomed out for soccer, so you can see some of the other players create shape on the field that allows for an attack.



Hockey seems a little more reckless in that, while possession is important, advancing the puck toward the goal for a possible goal or rebound off the goalie or even just keeping the team on their end of the ice is about as equally important. this style of play does create more opportunities for goals. I also have to give a huge shout out to Hockey players who are some of the toughest, hardest working, least whiny professional athletes. Which really makes me appreciate what they do all season (they should get higher ratings for that reason alone)

6/25/2009 2:00:02 PM

The thing I love about soccer is the contrast between its simplicity and complexity. It's simple in that the only rule is that you can't use your hands (basically) and whoever scores more goals wins. It's the easiest game in the world to sit down and understand exactly what is going on without knowing anything about it.

It's also incredibly complex in that there are so many ways to win strategically and there are so many interactions going on at one time on the field. I'm pretty confident in saying that there has never been a soccer game that was played exactly like another one. Tactics may have been similar but there are so many different possible outcomes and ways to score goals that you'll never really see a duplicate game. Whereas in football you pretty much know what your opponents' game plan is going into the game. Run the ball, throw the ball, play stout defense etc. In soccer, a really good team can dominate a lesser team offensively in one game and then come back 3 days later and play a completely different style game but still win. It's interesting to see how one player can come into a game and completely change everything just because of his presence. The physical, mental, and technical skillset each player possesses is different from almost every other player in the world and seeing the on-field chemistry of a team that is really clicking is the most delightful thing for me to see in all of sports. I can't tell you how many times I've been watching a match and just smiling because the skill and creativity of a team for small bursts of times is just so beautiful to watch. But you really have to have a nice understanding of the game to enjoy it at that level.

I think most Americans don't realize the incredible physicality with which the game is played at the highest levels. There is so much speed and power and precision in a typical match it's unbelievable. Couple that with the fact that they play for 90 minutes with a 15 minute halftime while constantly sprinting around and whatnot and I'd say it requires the most complete set of athletic ability other than maybe rugby.

It's just a great game to watch in general, but I totally get why most people don't like it. They just don't know it and they don't care to. I don't care. Just don't bash the people who do like it. I'm not the biggest fan of hockey but I'm not gonna hate on it. The only sport I hate on is cricket and that's because it's dumb as shit.

Plus there's no commercials. I really hate commercials.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 2:18 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 2:16:46 PM

double post

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 2:16:46 PM

Quote :

"I think most Americans don't realize the incredible physicality with which the game is played at the highest levels. There is so much speed and power and precision in a typical match it's unbelievable. Couple that with the fact that they play for 90 minutes with a 15 minute halftime while constantly sprinting around and whatnot and I'd say it requires the most complete set of athletic ability other than maybe rugby. "

.

can't be said enough

6/25/2009 2:19:19 PM

I love both hockey and soccer and if you can't find something you like about one of them, what's the big deal? No one says you have to like every sport out there. Why do people feel it necessary to either force themselves to like a sport or bash it?

It boggles my mind why people are offended when people don't like the same sport they do. Frankly I don't give a shit what sports others like and dislike. I talk about soccer with soccer fans. I talk about hockey with hockey fans. I don't try to force one group to talk about the other. And I don't tell NASCAR fans their sport sucks even though I couldn't care less about it.

6/25/2009 2:31:34 PM

I think we can all agree cricket sucks though, right?

6/25/2009 2:39:15 PM

I still have no fucking clue what's going on in a cricket game.

6/25/2009 2:39:53 PM

All I've heard about cricket is that they drink tea after. They do drink tea after the match, don't they?

6/25/2009 2:51:53 PM

this is a pretty obvious fact, but a soccer field is much bigger than a hockey rink or a bball court or football field, which contributes to the fact that it takes longer to develop the attack and there is less movement from one goal scoring opportunity to another at the other end, not that it doesn't happen, you just see less shots at one end and immediate shots at the other. could be a reason why some people find it boring to watch, but it also shows the fitness of the players and why you don't see any fat bastards playing in elite soccer divisions

6/25/2009 2:56:34 PM

Quote :

"CleverFilth: One of the things that makes soccer fans (or at least me) excited when i'm watching a game, is the phenomenal control players have over the ball. I mean someone will sail in a jet of a pass from half field just outside the box, and a forward will chest it down and guide it like a laser inbetween two defenders, effectively breaking through them, and then finish with pinpoint accuracy in the upper 90."

The notion of high control or high precision is laughable. The best players in the world generally miss the goal by several feet when taking a shot from inside the penalty box. Yesterday, Landon Donovan took an uncontested shot from the front of the penalty box and was wide by 10 feet... that is not "phenominal control" and he's pretty damn good. The US just beat Spain with 4 shots and only 2 of them on goal (which both went in) so the Spanish goalie literally did nothing.

Quote :

"CleverFilth: One of the reasons i really like soccer is that it's basically gone unchanged since it was created. with a few exceptions here and there, it's basically played the same way now that it was ages ago."

What? It has changed just as much as every other sport. Of course the bulk of the sport is the same but so is baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, etc. Here was an article from a few years back we had saved that talked about rule changes and comments on the history of tinkering with rules (check out the "A brief history lesson" section:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/04/sport.comment3

Even FIFA's website highlights some of the significant changes :
1863: The Cambridge Rules are rewritten to provide the game's first uniform regulations.
1866: The offside law is changed to allow players to be onside provided there are three players between the ball and the goal.
1891: Introduction of the penalty-kick.
1925: Amendment of the offside rule from three to two players.
1958: Substitutes are permitted for the first time, albeit only for an injured goalkeeper and one other injured player.
1970: The system of red and yellow cards is introduced for the 1970 FIFA World Cup ™ finals.
1990: The offside law is changed to being level with penultimate defender.
1992: Goalkeepers are forbidden from handing back-passes.
1998: Golden Goal

There is nothing wrong with making rule changes for the betterment of competition. The sport has undergone significant change over its lifespan so why be so stubborn about tweaking today? personally I'd like to see a quarter-line and offsides implemented like hockey (as a defender, I think it is crazy that a breakaway play can be nullified if a striker got behind me because I wasn't paying attention)... offense just can't enter the zone before the ball, regardless of the D positioning.

Quote :

"TerdFerguson: Hockey seems a little more reckless in that, while possession is important, advancing the puck toward the goal for a possible goal or rebound off the goalie or even just keeping the team on their end of the ice is about as equally important."

This is simply due to your lack of knowledge of the sport. Hockey is far more calculating/orchestrated movement than you think. I could easily say soccer involves the more reckless ball movement the way the bulk of the field is covered by booming it down the field for a virtual jump ball and hope your guy can head it to a teammates area. If you don't really know what players are actually doing then any sport looks pointless.

Quote :

"IMStoned420: I think most Americans don't realize the incredible physicality with which the game is played at the highest levels. There is so much speed and power and precision in a typical match it's unbelievable. Couple that with the fact that they play for 90 minutes with a 15 minute halftime while constantly sprinting around and whatnot and I'd say it requires the most complete set of athletic ability other than maybe rugby."

The vast majority of players on a soccer field are not moving (or just trotting) the majority of the time. Hockey is far more active, in that regard, and exhibits far more "speed and power and precision" than soccer ever does.


I actually watch a lot more soccer these days but its still needs improvement. Truth is, anything is still better than yet another rerun of the "2004 World Series of Poker Omaha Hi-Low Split-8 or Better."

6/25/2009 3:22:14 PM

Quote :

"The best players in the world ... Landon Donovan"

Quote :

"The vast majority of players on a soccer field are not moving (or just trotting) the majority of the time. Hockey is far more active, in that regard, and exhibits far more "speed and power and precision" than soccer ever does. "

And hockey players spend most of the game on the bench.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 3:24:14 PM

Landon Donovan is far from one of the best players in the world.

If this isn't speed, power, and precision, I don't know what is:

6/25/2009 3:29:58 PM

Quote :

"The notion of high control or high precision is laughable."

I really don't think it is. While you compared my statement to shots, i was mainly referring to a players control over the ball as he's dribbling/containing it off a pass.

and for the record i don't keep up with MLS or international matches very much, but instead the Premiere League, so i'm referring to those players and their skills.

6/25/2009 3:39:14 PM

Quote :

"Landon Donovan is far from one of the best players in the world."

I was simply using a specific example from yesterday's game, not trying to rank Donovan. The absolute best in the world (Ronaldo, Rooney, Kaka, etc) do miss the vast majority of their shots by a significant factor. We all know vinyl is "is #1 in SV%" but imagine how much easier his job would be if he only had to make 8 saves in a game.

Quote :

"And hockey players spend most of the game on the bench."

I never said hockey players were "constantly sprinting around and whatnot." I pointed out that soccer is not constant action and the hockey exhibits a higher degree of "speed and power and precision" in the course of play.

6/25/2009 3:39:51 PM

Having played goal in both soccer and hockey...it's easier to stop shots in hockey. As much as we like to say that there are shots that a hockey goaltender has "no chance" on, the fact is that any shot on goal in a hockey game is physically within reach, if not practically. That's often not the case in a soccer game, where a shot on net can still be a good six feet from an outstretched hand at full leap.

6/25/2009 3:44:42 PM

Quote :

"If this isn't speed, power, and precision, I don't know what is:"

How often do plays actually turn out like that? Its like me pulling up an Ovechkin highlight and using that as an example of everday hockey.

Quote :

"i was mainly referring to a players control over the ball as he's dribbling/containing it off a pass."

I see your point. Dribbling control and extended-pass-containment is exceptional, but you see some degree of that in every sport (dangling/dekeing in hockey, dribbling/cross-overs in basketball, pitch placement in baseball, etc).

Quote :

"and for the record i don't keep up with MLS or international matches very much, but instead the Premiere League, so i'm referring to those players and their skills."

Funny thing, I actually prefer MLS games. The ones I catch on TV tend to have more scoring than the international games (perhaps because more mistakes = more scoring chances, I don't know) or maybe its just luck of the draw.

Quote :

"Having played goal in both soccer and hockey...it's easier to stop shots in hockey. As much as we like to say that there are shots that a hockey goaltender has "no chance" on, the fact is that any shot on goal in a hockey game is physically within reach, if not practically. That's often not the case in a soccer game, where a shot on net can still be a good six feet from an outstretched hand at full leap."

I agree. To me that is part of the problem: soccer goalies are virtually irrelevant when it comes to a good shot/play. Like I said, it just seems odd to me that the best in the world can strike from the fringe of the penalty box and miss a massive goal by several feet. Its like precision shooting with a .38 Special. This is a reason I like arena soccer with goals embedded in the boards... more rebounds = more live play = more excitement. Cutting the number of players would help... so many players in the box that the ball is too easily blocked (and its already hard to put it on net)

6/25/2009 4:01:12 PM

Quote :

"I see your point. Dribbling control and extended-pass-containment is exceptional, but you see some degree of that in every sport (dangling/dekeing in hockey, dribbling/cross-overs in basketball, pitch placement in baseball, etc)."

good, and i definitely see your point as well. I suppose i find dribbling control, for instance, more exciting than you do. That's not to say that dribbling control in soccer > puck control in hockey, that would be absurd, they're two different things.

Quote :

"How often do plays actually turn out like that? Its like me pulling up an Ovechkin highlight and using that as an example of everday hockey."

well this kind of brings me to the point of why i watch Premier league. Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, they're all world class players, but they don't play with a significant number of other world class players.

the premiere league on the other hand (not the whole league but perhaps the top 5 teams) is a colletion of the world's best talent all on the same pitch. while not every player on the field might be the greatest, the level of skill on the field is much higher than say the equivalent level of skill in an NHL match. so when you watch a soccer game in the premiere league, it's like watching a game of crosby vs malkin, instead of crosby vs. average/slightly over average NHL player.

i probably didn't do a great job explaining that but i hope you catch the point i was trying to convey.

Quote :

"This is a reason I like arena soccer with goals embedded in the boards... more rebounds = more live play = more excitement"

i absolutely agree. Arena soccer is 5fold more exciting to play/watch than field soccer.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 4:14 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 4:06:38 PM

Quote :

"I still have no fucking clue what's going on in a cricket game."

I still don't understand why this isn't popular in America. It combines everything people like about sports in our country.

A bat and ball with pitching and innings

Pads and helmets that look like those of a hockey goalie

It takes a really long time to complete a game like NASCAR

It has constant stoppages of play like baseball and football.

You score 6 points for hitting it over the wall, 4 for going past that line near the wall, and 1 for running safely to the wicket. The scoring is like football where you don't have to score but once to put multiple points on the board. The games are very high scoring.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 4:43:51 PM

Here is a good website that explains cricket. The rules are very complex.

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hosking/cricket/explanation.htm#basics

6/25/2009 9:43:19 PM

Quote :

"CleverFilth: One of the reasons i really like soccer is that it's basically gone unchanged since it was created. with a few exceptions here and there, it's basically played the same way now that it was ages ago"

I know this thread isn't about it, but baseball is probably the most unchanged sport out there.

Since MLB's inception games none of the fundamental rules have changed. The biggest chance, and this was nearly 100 years ago, is that intentionally fooling the hitters is allowed (i.e.- breaking balls)...

6/25/2009 9:48:05 PM

Quote :

" I still don't understand why this isn't popular in America. It combines everything people like about sports in our country. A bat and ball with pitching and innings Pads and helmets that look like those of a hockey goalie It takes a really long time to complete a game like NASCAR It has constant stoppages of play like baseball and football."

That's about everything I dislike about sports. Except I'm pretty indifferent to the look of hockey pads and helmets as I'm sure most people are. I'm pretty sure you're being sardonic though.

Quote :

" well this kind of brings me to the point of why i watch Premier league. Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, they're all world class players, but they don't play with a significant number of other world class players. the premiere league on the other hand (not the whole league but perhaps the top 5 teams) is a colletion of the world's best talent all on the same pitch. while not every player on the field might be the greatest, the level of skill on the field is much higher than say the equivalent level of skill in an NHL match. so when you watch a soccer game in the premiere league, it's like watching a game of crosby vs malkin, instead of crosby vs. average/slightly over average NHL player. i probably didn't do a great job explaining that but i hope you catch the point i was trying to convey."

You're right you didn't do a great job. The NHL is much more of the world's "premiere" league than the EPL is.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 9:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 9:49:57 PM

^I was joking, but it is the truth at the same time. Its not like Americans haven't come to like sports with weird scoring that constantly stop and take forever.

6/25/2009 10:55:49 PM