If they are in the process of kicking down your door, you may shoot them through said door. Once the door is down and they're inside, if they "turn off the crazy" you can no longer shoot them.

7/17/2009 11:59:27 AM

And if they're already in your house and they come at you, you may shoot them through the face.

7/17/2009 12:00:11 PM

DB, it's very subjective... who is going to know what the intruder did if you shoot them in self defense and they die? with a decent lawyer and non-activist judge you'd be fine. but that doesn't always mean it's a good idea

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:00:25 PM

Quote :

"I don't think this is right in NC. I was under the impression that they need to be in your house to shoot them. For instance, if you shoot them while they're coming through the door you better hope they land in the living room instead of on the porch."

i seem to remember hearing that too, but the fogginess comes when people get shot in the back or as they are exiting the house with property (for NC)

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM. Reason : h]

7/17/2009 12:00:28 PM

YOU CANNOT SHOOT A TRESSPASSER IN NORTH CAROLINA

you may shoot someone who is in the act of illegally entering your home and/or someone who threatens your life, serious injury, or sexual assult, or is in the act of committing a felony. You CANNOT shoot if said person is retreating.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:02 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:00:51 PM

I find it wierd you can shoot through a closed door in which case you might be mistaken, but cant shoot once they are inside unless you feel "threatened". Of course pretty much anyone is gonna be "threatened" when somebody breaks in your house and is inside.

7/17/2009 12:00:58 PM

Quote :

"^yes, it's very subjective... who is going to know what the intruder did if you shoot them in self defense and they die? with a decent lawyer and non-activist judge you'd be fine. but that doesn't always mean it's a good idea"

Is that a joke? Their posture when you shoot them is a HUGE giveaway of whether or not they were a threat. The police will look into it. You can rest assured that you do not want to kill someone in NC unless there is absolutely no other choice. The laws aren't that great for the person doing the defending IMO.

^ Exactly, it is crazy, but that IS the law. You can shoot to PREVENT a foreceful entry if they're in the act of doing it, but once they have entered your home the rules change back to what they are on the street. I didn't make these laws, I'm just telling you what my understanding of them is.

7/17/2009 12:01:40 PM

no matter what your gonna be grilled and scrutinized for cappin the dude

look at the dude in texas that did nothin more than detain those illegals in his ranch

7/17/2009 12:02:07 PM

I really think you guys are mistaken:


In NC:
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.
(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 12:02:10 PM

^no, we aren't

Quote :

"to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence."

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:02:55 PM

The only problem with your story is this:

Quote :

"I go upstairs, load my Glock, and..."

Keep your stuff loaded and with you when you are home.
If you are downstairs, gun is upstairs, and the door is kicked in, then what do you do.

otherwise you did fine. You should report it so the police can keep their eyes open wider in the area.

7/17/2009 12:03:19 PM

^x? laws have improved with time though. A shot to the front of the body can very easily be defended. a shot to the back and you're pretty much fucked in court.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason : no idea where the post went]

7/17/2009 12:03:49 PM

Quote :

"you may shoot someone who is in the act of illegally entering your home and/or someone who threatens your life, serious injury, or sexual assult, or is in the act of committing a felony. You CANNOT shoot if said person is retreating."

i used the word "foggy" because its often not clear what the hell the person is doing at the time the shot is fired

Quote :

"to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence."

do you understand that theft is a felony


[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:04 PM. Reason : f]

7/17/2009 12:03:59 PM

i think it would have been funny as hell to have just stuck your head out of the window and said "smile" and then took their picture

then pull your gun out and tell them they have about 5 seconds to exit your property before they catch hot lead

7/17/2009 12:04:08 PM

so pretty much every gun safety psa i've ever seen says keep the gun unloaded and separate from the ammo

7/17/2009 12:04:21 PM

as for warning shots, you can't just shoot randomly in city limits (which includes warning shots).

out in the country? I'm not sure...

7/17/2009 12:04:24 PM

i hate when a thread gets all quoty and shit

i stop reading it

7/17/2009 12:04:27 PM

Burglary is a felony

7/17/2009 12:04:35 PM

He did report it Daryl. Read this thread

I remember when our house got broken into, the CCBI agent said (since we were all girls) that if another person broke in we could shoot to kill, but the intruder would have to be in the house, not on the deck.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason : MaximaDrvr, I'm not doing that many carats ]

7/17/2009 12:04:58 PM

^he was wrong.

IN THE ACT OF ILLEGALLY ENTERING, POSING A THREAT OF DEATH, SERIOUS INJURY, OR SEXUAL ASSUALT, OR INTENDS TO OR IS COMITTING A FELONY

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:05:36 PM

On the warning shot thing, did anyone notice my statement on page 1? I don't think it ever got addressed:

Quote :

"I'm not sure on that actually, can you show me where in the statutes it says that? I'm not trying to be rude btw, I'll totally believe you if you show me. It's just that other than not being able to fire within the city limits I'm not sure that anything specifies that warning shots are illegal. You shouldn't fire them unless you're justified in killing someone, but I don't think there's anything illegal about a warning shot.... I know someone who fired one and told the police exactly what they did and they were just fine. There were no blood trails, although it was just bird shot anyway and so they didn't even take it further. "

^ Exactly, he was DEAD wrong. You cannot shoot someone simply because they're on your property or in your house when they aren't supposed to be. They must meet the same requirements that they'd have to meet on the street in order for you to legally use lethal force.

7/17/2009 12:05:37 PM

Quote :

"as for warning shots, you can't just shoot randomly in city limits (which includes warning shots). out in the country? I'm not sure..."

I changed this because thinking back, it was just somethign that my CCP instructor said. nothing I read says warning shots are illegal everywhere.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:06:25 PM

Okay so the only recourse is shoot them AS they're entering. Once inside the house just wait for the cops that you've hopefully called.

7/17/2009 12:06:53 PM

^That's NOT RIGHT.

No, you don't. You have to reasonably beleive they are going to commit a felony. Burglary is a freaking felony. Have any of you actually read the Castle Doctrine Statute?

If someone breaks into your home in NC you do NOT have to retreat. You can stand your ground. You can shoot them if you REASONABLY BELIEVE they are going to harm you or steal from you. Period.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 12:07:06 PM

Nevermind, you addressed it now.

7/17/2009 12:08:15 PM

Well that's what I've gotten out of this discussion. You can ONLY use deadly force if the person is breaking in with intent to commit felony (theft). You can't use deadly force once they are inside b/c they are simply trespassing, and all that stupid legal crap means you can get in trouble for shooting the trespasser. It's retarded.

Sorry SaabTurbo, I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to the dude below me (that's what she said zing)

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:09 PM. Reason : Saab]

7/17/2009 12:08:27 PM

So how do you interpret the second statement in the law that says "occupant reasonably believesthe intruder INTENDS to commit a felony"

i know that shit is beat to death in court rooms, but it seems you both are clearly in agreement that it doesnt give you grounds to shoot...so i kinda want to hear your personal thought process on it

i just think the law is stupid if it s so vague, but in the heat of the moment, honestly who knows what the FUCK someone is trying to do expecially if you live in a neighborhood full of drug addicts



[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM. Reason : t]

7/17/2009 12:08:57 PM

Quote :

"so pretty much every gun safety psa i've ever seen says keep the gun unloaded and separate from the ammo"

Those PSAs are for idiots. Guns don't shoot people all buy themselves. You don't have to hide the ammo, as they don't load themselves, so they can shoot people.
We don't live in DC, and we don't have to keep our guns unloaded and locked away (unusable).

7/17/2009 12:09:04 PM

I believe the laws are written (and how judges/DAs interpret them) so that if you are going to use deadly force, you shoot to kill, not shoot to wound or warn

7/17/2009 12:09:12 PM

fix this shit mang

7/17/2009 12:09:34 PM

You have to reasonably believe they are going to commit a felony. Burglary is a freaking felony. Have any of you actually read the Castle Doctrine Statute?

If someone breaks into your home in NC you do NOT have to retreat. You can stand your ground. You can shoot them if you REASONABLY BELIEVE they are going to harm you or steal from you. Period.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 12:09:52 PM

I'll leave it to the CC permit holders to defend my actions. I'm going to gather up the dive gear mentioned in the OP and go harvest stone crabs.

If I get home and my dive gear is gone, there will be another thread on how I intend to hunt the little bastards down.

7/17/2009 12:09:57 PM

^^^^^^ This is why you should never kill someone unless there is no other choice. These situations that seem so clear when they're happening then get to be scrutinized by people who weren't there. Every little action you took will be second guessed over and over. Oh, and expect to spend a minimum of $20k even if you aren't convicted.

7/17/2009 12:10:14 PM

pretty much, its stupid

criminals have the upperhand at all times

7/17/2009 12:11:23 PM

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.html

Quote :

"§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. (a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence. (b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section. (c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)"

7/17/2009 12:11:56 PM

Quote :

"that really sucks, but it's awesome that you prevented a crime and did it properly. WHERE IS 20/20 NOW? GUNS CAN'T PREVENT CRIMES?? GUNS CAN'T BE USED IN SELF DEFENSE???"

Ummm... The gun didn't prevent anything. It just gave jetskipro the balls he wouldn't otherwise have had to yell at some kids through a locked door.

7/17/2009 12:12:00 PM

^^ Right, you do not have a duty to retreat. That doesn't mean you may kill them for any reason... It means that IF they attack you, you do not have to attempt to escape the situation.

That is the only difference between the street and the home really (Unless you catch them in the process of attempting a forced entry), but once inside they still must meet the requirements that give you the right to use lethal force.... It's just that you aren't required to try to get away before resorting to it. At least that has always been my understanding of this statute.

7/17/2009 12:13:11 PM

ahahaha

7/17/2009 12:13:14 PM

the threat of armed citizens prevents crimes

the THREAT of armed citizens

so...lets disarm citizens right?

7/17/2009 12:13:44 PM

can we compare incidence of armed robbery in the united states with that in the united kingdom or

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason : per capita, like]

7/17/2009 12:14:20 PM

Quote :

"but they still must meet the requirements that give you the right to use lethal force...."

Which are subjective as all hell. All you have to do is fear for your life. So pretty much just don't shoot them in the back.

7/17/2009 12:14:29 PM

Quote :

"^^ Right, you do not have a duty to retreat. That doesn't mean you may kill them for any reason... It means that IF they attack you, you do not have to attempt to escape. That is the only difference between the street and the home, but they still must meet the requirements that give you the right to use lethal force...."

I think you don't know what a felony means. They don't have to attack you at all for you to use deadly force.

7/17/2009 12:14:33 PM

Quote :

"Ummm... The gun didn't prevent anything. It just gave jetskipro the balls he wouldn't otherwise have had to yell at some kids through a locked door."

so you just admitted it helped??? 20/20 said it wouldn't

what if those guys were armed? what if they did get inside? does a "please leave my house" always work on those guys?

7/17/2009 12:14:54 PM

NC is a duty to retreat state.
If they are breaking into your house, their intentions are unknown, and you can shoot to stop the threat.
Once they are in your house, it would be tresspassing. If they have a 32'' TV in their hands, you can't pop them in the head, as they still aren't an immediate threat to you.
You can brandish, but can't pull the trigger legally.

The whole there to commit a felony is great on paper, but doesn't hold up in court.

7/17/2009 12:15:11 PM

NC is NOT a duty to retreat state.
Castle Doctrine is Active in NC.

We are not a Hold your Ground State--which extends Castle Doctrine to places outside of work and home.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 12:15:33 PM

man this sweet and sour chicken has carrots, cherries, and water chestnuts in it

i feel like i'm eating at neo-china

anyway don't you people have homeowner's insurance

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason : or renter's]

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason : or life]

7/17/2009 12:15:39 PM

hmm.... nvm....

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 12:16:06 PM

Quote :

"I think you don't know what a felony means. They don't have to attack you at all for you to use deadly force."

Well, you're totally wrong there. In Texas, sure. In NC, fuck no, you've just bought yourself a ticket to the slammer.

7/17/2009 12:19:19 PM

NC is a duty to retreat state.
If you are in your home/ on your property, then you do not have a duty to retreat. But, you can/will be charged if you confront the BG and kill them without immediate fear of death or serious bodily injury.
NC has a crappy Castile Doctrine. That is whey the whole issue of entering vs. already on your property already exists.

7/17/2009 12:19:31 PM

Quote :

"so you just admitted it helped??? 20/20 said it wouldn't what if those guys were armed? what if they did get inside? does a "please leave my house" always work on those guys?"

What if they detonated a nuclear bomb in his front yard, huh!>?!?? What IF!!!



I have no problem with people owning and using guns, btw. It's just ridiculous to pretend that owning a gun is the only way to reach the outcome that was reached. If jetskipro owned no gun, and said "get the fuck off my porch" these kids would have ran. If he would have sneezed the probably would have ran too.

Guns are good and all, but they don't have magical powers in 90% of cases to protect you vs. other techniques.

7/17/2009 12:20:02 PM