Quote :

"Quote : " I bet he made more than an ass out of himself before he ever established it was his home." And that matters how?"

Quote :

"The cop asked him to step outside. Gates said no, and asked the officer to identify himself. The officer did, then said he was investigating a break-in in progress. At this point, the officer's report says "Gates exclaimed "why, because I'm a black man in America?" It escalated from there, with Gates apparently calling the police department to get the chief on the line to report a "racist police officer." At this point the whole thing turns into chaos, with the officer contending whether gates was lawfully in the residence by his behavior, asked Gates to come outside (he didn't), so the officer went inside and the yelling continued and the officer eventually decided to arrest the academic. "

He made a complete ass out of himself instead of cooperating with an investigation. Anyone would have gotten hauled off in this situation. The initial break-in call may not have been made if he was white, but you can't fault the officers for that.

He got what he wanted.

7/21/2009 12:04:49 AM

Quote :

"So now you admit there is such a think as disorderly conduct??"

did i ever not? did i ever subscribe to this belief that you ascribed to me? did i ever even suggest it? i really don't know where you're getting this ridiculous strawman.

the cops should have walked away.

the most likely scenario to me from my years of experience with people in general is that the cops probably got a little heated after gates did and things escalated and the cops exerted their power to arrest him. the police report is very vague and is only one side of the story.

7/21/2009 12:08:53 AM

^ you're kinda missing the point, friend. I know you're not a libertairan. But the arguments you were making sounded libertarian, to me anyways. When I made this point clear, you fell back on an even BETTER argument....

You have elaborated that your problem with this arrest is that *YOU* don't think Gates was being disorderly...based on your intimate experience with the incident!!!!!!!

You can do the cop's job better even though you were not at the scene and must rely on news and police reports you yourself admit are less than accurate.

Hahhaahah!!!! This is a very good and very smart position to take.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 12:17 AM. Reason : ``]

7/21/2009 12:13:18 AM

and?

my point all along was that i didn't think that the police report told the whole story. look back at my first post in the thread. i didn't fall back on anything. i told what i thought probably happened.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 12:16:44 AM

and nothing pal. That's exactly the type of argument 99% of the people on this board would make.

Acknowledging the fact that your information could be faulty and one sided, you press on. You form judgements and decide who is at fault on a few blog posts an AP wire story. THAT'S the TWW way.

And that's why I must retire for the evening. I think I've wrung this absurdity for all the enjoyment its worth for the moment.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 12:23 AM. Reason : ``]

7/21/2009 12:20:53 AM

unlike YOU who read the police report. which, funnily enough, i read before this thread was made.

7/21/2009 12:23:32 AM

there are multiple officers reporting the same thing, and one of them is named Carlos Figueroa. That doesn't exactly sound like the name of the white man that is keeping him down.

7/21/2009 12:25:31 AM

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 12:28 AM. Reason : i'm done. i've said my piece.]

7/21/2009 12:26:59 AM

^ sarijoul,

I gave my opinion based on what the police report said and prefaced that opinion on the assumption the report was true.

You, on the other hand, claim the police report is likely wrong or at least one sided. Then you make your judgement on the situation based on.....what you think actually happened based on....your best guess...from similar experiences????

I will not consider the fact that you cannot see the difference between the two approaches to be evidence there is no difference.

But that seriously is it for me! Night Night!!

PS* The cop said he was leaving and Gates followed him outside to yell at him some more. But, hey he's probably a fucking liar.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 12:50 AM. Reason : ``]

7/21/2009 12:33:21 AM

i'd love to know what some of you defending the cops in this situation would have to say about this:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/02/16/robbie-tolan-faces-long-road-to-recovery-after-police-shooting/

7/21/2009 1:54:08 AM

What the hell do you think we're going to say? Do you think we're so blinded by our love for law enforcement that we'll try to defend the officers in your entirely different example?

I did like this little quip:

Quote :

"Tolan survived, but he was only recently released from the hospital, and he still has a bullet lodged in his liver and may never play baseball again. The gut-wrenching story is explored in a stunning report by Bryant Gumbel that will air Tuesday night on HBO's Real Sports."

7/21/2009 8:21:32 AM

Quote :

"He got what he wanted."

7/21/2009 8:43:02 AM

So I figured my admonitions would be ignored, but they bear repeating:

You are like gargoyles in a shitstorm. Filth pours from your mouths in dark, stinking rivers as if your stony jaws were fixed open. Stop before you post again and think about what the hell you're saying.

7/21/2009 8:50:44 AM

If there was ever anyone who should take their own advice

7/21/2009 9:15:16 AM

Frost, you're under arrest for disturbing the peace!

7/21/2009 9:18:09 AM

OHO

A DELICIOUS TWIST

7/21/2009 9:18:37 AM

Lokken,

oh come on he tries so hard. he puts a lot of effort into those posts, probably even breaks out thesauruses and shit.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 9:21 AM. Reason : ``]

7/21/2009 9:21:17 AM

hey Socks`` i heard you sucked so much dick one of your lungs collapsed

where can i send the get well soon card

7/21/2009 9:24:52 AM

Quote :

"i heard you sucked so much dick one of your lungs collapsed"

ahahahahahaha, holy shit I was not expecting to read anything that funny in this particular thread.

7/21/2009 9:55:41 AM

wicked burn.

7/21/2009 9:59:54 AM

Quote :

"So I figured my admonitions would be ignored, but they bear repeating: You are like gargoyles in a shitstorm. Filth pours from your mouths in dark, stinking rivers as if your stony jaws were fixed open. Stop before you post again and think about what the hell you're saying."

you're trying way too hard dude

7/21/2009 3:44:25 PM

I dont doubt for a minute that the radical African American Studies professor was belligerent, hostile and displayed an attitude to the cop merely investigating the break in. I bet he did not stop for a minute to think "maybe the cops are here because someone saw me forcing my door open and thought it was a break in" I dont doubt for a minute he became hostile and assumed racism when the cop merely was asking for ID to make sure he actually lived there. I also think it never occurred to him that "what if it was not me but an actual burglar, would i want the cop to verify he lived there"

now, depending on how much of an asshole he was, how belligerent he was and how much he delayed the cops investigation, would determine if he was arrested or cited.

Id say the true racist here is the professor who still has a chip on his shoulder, not the cop who had to put up with his racist ranting.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 3:45:47 PM

GOD I GUESS I JUST CARE TOO MUCH

7/21/2009 3:47:58 PM

I can understand this man being upset, but you have to understand why an officer is there askign questions when someone called about a break in. How he got to "bc im black in america." is more of a mystery than why the cops were there. I have no doubt he sues, you have to have a major chip on your shoulders to respond to an officer who is called to possible protect your house with that line of bs.

7/21/2009 3:50:09 PM

Quote :

"how much he delayed the cops investigation"

of what? leaving his house?

and i was unaware that being an ass to the cops at your own house was against the law.

7/21/2009 3:50:40 PM

haha. sarijoul give it a rest. You seriously cant understand why an officer would show up to his house and ask questions?

Repub18, well said.

7/21/2009 3:55:37 PM

i completely understand why the officer should ask questions. and then leave. the officer had confirmed that he was who he said he was and the officer stuck around.

7/21/2009 3:56:36 PM

FroshKiller seems incapable of making an argument based on anything other than ad hominem attacks

7/21/2009 4:02:51 PM

He was arrested for disturbing the peace, which can occur on one's own property.

7/21/2009 4:03:58 PM

sure

FroshKiller is "arguing" in this thread

okay

more like i'm calling a dipshit a dipshit guys

7/21/2009 4:04:50 PM

In NC there is a charge Resist, Delay Obstruct an officer. If you do any of these things excessively during a police investigation you can be charged. I dont know what the charges are in Massachusetts, but depending on how things went I could see him getting charged with RDO, maybe cited not arrested, its a misdemeanor.

7/21/2009 4:06:22 PM

Quote :

"The initial break-in call may not have been made if he was white, but you can't fault the officers for that."

This strikes me as likely.

Somebody sees a person forcing open a door. Maybe because he's black, maybe just on general principle, they call the police. Cops show up, get pissed at the verbal abuse they receive, and retaliate with the most obvious means at their disposal.

Comparable though smaller scale things have happened to me, a white and (at the time) well-kept man.. If you act like a dick to a cop, they will make your life more difficult, because they can.

7/21/2009 4:08:51 PM

fyi, the police dept. dropped the criminal charges today. they know they're about to get sued.

7/21/2009 4:39:06 PM

I doubt they actually intended to charge him at any time. Just give him a night in jail to think about maybe not being such a dick.

7/21/2009 4:44:02 PM

Im sure they have it on tape (audio). Im also sure they will get sued. THis guy has a serious chip on his shoulder.

7/21/2009 4:44:12 PM

and gates is saying that many of the things in the report were fabricated of course. and that he couldn't yell loudly because he was just recovering from a bronchial infection for what it's worth. i'm sure witnesses could determine whether that's the truth easily enough.

7/21/2009 4:49:54 PM

I would have gotten angry too in that situation. The cops acted like thugs here, as always. If they must exist, they should limit their use of brutal coercion as much as possible. I've had to deal with an irate person or two on the job. I got by without physically dominating and kidnapping them.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 4:54 PM. Reason : ly]

7/21/2009 4:53:43 PM

Cops...trolled if they respond to an incident at a black residence, trolled if they don't.

7/21/2009 5:02:51 PM

you're totally missing the point. a professional would have investigated. determined that the man there wasn't robbing the place. and left. that's it. and ideally they would have tried to calm down the guy who was pissed. but really, if they had just left after they got him properly ID'ed that would have been that.

7/21/2009 5:13:24 PM

WRONG
It is the job of the police to go wherever they are summoned to make sure they are respected as much as they believe they deserve, then meting out justice to those ungrateful enough to have a bad day

7/21/2009 5:24:22 PM

Quote :

"a professional would have investigated. determined that the man there wasn't robbing the place. and left. that's it. and ideally they would have tried to calm down the guy who was pissed. but really, if they had just left after they got him properly ID'ed that would have been that."

Maybe I'm missing something? According to the police report, that's exactly what they did until he became disorderly.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 5:37:45 PM

obviously not disorderly enough for them to actually file charges.

and i can't believe people are arguing that yelling at a cop in one's own house/porch/yard is enough to warrant cuffing up someone.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 5:49 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 5:46:37 PM

Believe it. Law enforcement is useless as a deterrent without a modicum of respect enforcement.

Thats a whole 'nother discussion though. The media is blowing this up as a race issue.

7/21/2009 6:08:51 PM

I can't think of any situation ever where a cop can arrest someone on their own property for not doing anything wrong.

I could curse at a cop with my middle finger up and there's nothing he can do about it if i'm in my own yard. If he was physically threatening them (or holding a gun or something) that's different.

I bet the cops get reamed in court though, as they should be.

Quote :

"Maybe I'm missing something? According to the police report, that's exactly what they did until he became disorderly."

I think we're all missing something. You really can't trust police reports for stuff like this (there is a LONG trail of gussied up police reports, especially when it comes to racism issues). The fact that the guy showed his drivers license and harvard ID, but something STILL happened makes me think the cops instigated something. I could see though the issue of the cops merely being called out to investigate NOT being a race issue (except with the dumb bitch neighbor who didn't recognize her own neighbor), and then once they got there it became one.

And regarding the pool thing... I don't think that's too uncommon, especially in the south. I know a buddy of mine from NC went to a "public" pool that didn't allow blacks, and when some black kids showed up one time, everyone else got out of the pool. People suck, especially white people

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 6:26 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2009 6:21:01 PM

^^i don't think it's a race issue other than the fact that gates wants it to be one. the police coming to investigate a suspected robbery is totally legitimate regardless of race. i guess the police officers could have been acting out of racism when they arrested him. it seems more likely that they were just getting on the standard police power trip.

Quote :

"(except with the dumb bitch neighbor who didn't recognize her own neighbor)"

it wasn't a neighbor. it was someone (city worker iirc) passing through the neighborhood.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 6:28 PM. Reason : dp]

7/21/2009 6:26:48 PM

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 6:28 PM. Reason : dp]

7/21/2009 6:27:55 PM

Quote :

"The fact that the guy showed his drivers license and harvard ID, but something STILL happened makes me think the cops instigated something."

Gates' completely unfounded behavior is what caused the police to be extra-suspicious of him, not the other way around...according to statements by the police chief.

I don't think you've got any ground to completely write off police statements. As much fabrication as there is out there, these days there's an equally long trail of "cry wolf" racism claims by men like Gates.

7/21/2009 7:04:03 PM

what were they suspicious of? gates being pissed at them?

7/21/2009 7:07:40 PM

just fyi, if you backtalk the cops, you will suffer the consequences. quit acting like what he did was a-okay.

7/21/2009 7:37:24 PM

So what part of the cops actions at hand were racist, because I'm confused on this point. Was it them showing up in response to a citizen call of a break in in progress? Was it their asking for identification of the man they found inside the property they were called to? Was it their walking away? Or are we saying that the arrest was racially motivated? And if we are saying that, does that mean we're also saying that if this had been some rich white guy screaming at the cops and following them as they attempt to leave that he would also not have been arrested? Because I'm really confused as to what reason Gates had to be pissed at the cops until they arrested him. It seems to me, the only racism going on was the black guy thinking whitey was out to get him because one of his neighbors called the cops on a guy breaking into a house and the cops came by to check it out.

Incidentally, Gates' statement:

http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr

Now I know the truth is always in the middle, but of the two accounts presented, I'm having a real hard time believing Mr. Gates' account. Even assuming this was some power tripping asshole racist cop, his statement boils down to the cop asked for ID, examined the ID, and then completely ignored him until they got to his front porch where without provocation and in front of an audience thanked Mr. Gates and then just arrested him, making up a magical disorderly conduct charge out of thin air from a tense but otherwise uneventful encounter, and of course Mr. Gates was perfectly calm through the whole thing.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 8:04 PM. Reason : adsf]

7/21/2009 7:53:45 PM