Quote :

"Is there any way you can be unbaptized?"

blaspheme the Holy Spirit, perhaps? Good luck actually doing it successfully. FTR, I do not condone blaspheming the H.S.

7/26/2009 5:44:14 PM

could be a dedication of the infant to Christ, thats some catholic stuff

they also do that sprinklin mess, thats not baptism baptism is by immersion to simulate the death, BURIAL, and ressurection of Christ


I dont know, thats not according to the doctrine of any Baptist church I have been to, only children of age to understand Salvation and have been saved and request baptism according to the scripture get baptized. (or their family makes them do it, which is not according to scripture)

children that cannot understand salvation due to age or diminished mental capacity do not got to hell if they die.

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 5:45 PM. Reason : v]

7/26/2009 5:45:04 PM

Quote :

"FTR, I do not condone blaspheming the H.S."

lol

7/26/2009 5:45:20 PM

Quote :

"And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." (Acts 2:38-39)"

Babies are children... but its to save you from original sin.

7/26/2009 5:46:14 PM

that is not sayin children in the literal sense, but speaking of future generations

as in every human that will exist has the opportunity to receive Christ

7/26/2009 5:50:08 PM

Quote :

" i just don't think that when we die we are all going to have a bbq in the sky and be reunited again and be happy. i also don't think that you have to get morality from religion or that morality SHOULD come from religion. i mean, can't we just know right from wrong and make "good" choices because we want to and we are rational not because we fear god's wrath? and for me religion is different than spirituality. i also think that either way, it should be a personal choice and a personal relationship (with whomever) and people shouldn't be all in your face like "i go to church! praise jesus! be a christian be a christian be a christian!" etc. i know that is a stereotype and religion does do some good, i just feel like i (personally) see more harm than good come from it. i know other people feel differently and that is fine. i guess you are lucky to have been exposed to model religious people instead of like, overzealous jesus freaks. /rant!"

indeed.

7/26/2009 5:53:16 PM

a child of God is a child of God no matter how old or how young. So that doesn't mean that babies shouldn't be baptized.

7/26/2009 5:54:05 PM

youre not wrong

but it will have to be done again once the child comes of age to understand and the child accepts christ of his own volition


that original baptism doesnt carry over, its the familys dedicaton of that child to God. Its like a prayer that the child is blessed by God walks a holy path and eventually gets saved

you can baptize the kid if you want but that not the end of it basically, i dont see how this is difficult to understand

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 5:58 PM. Reason : d]

7/26/2009 5:58:23 PM

no sir i believe you are wrong. but we don't share the same beliefs. so we will never agree.

7/26/2009 5:59:51 PM

well god damn it then why are we arguin

ha

thats pretty pointless

i should denote that this is according to the Authorized King James Bible and Fundamental Baptist doctrine, ehich i personally believe to be the true teachigns and the true teachings of God

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 6:04 PM. Reason : d]

7/26/2009 6:02:22 PM

the soap box called. they want their thread back.

7/26/2009 6:23:03 PM

[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 6:30 PM. Reason : u]

7/26/2009 6:27:56 PM

I was going to post in this this thread but then I just sighed really loudly and posted this instead.

People who believe in baptizing babies are significantly dumber than people who go for baptism in general.

7/26/2009 6:55:55 PM

are they as dumb as people that dont know when to use colons?

7/26/2009 6:59:53 PM

Quote :

"contrary to all evidence"

Care to provide you're evidence or are you presenting your OPINION as absolute truth again?

I was baptized when I was 17. Being saved and baptized are two different things....it's sad the author of this thread didnt know that.

Joe, the fact that you are saved and "baptised" dosent give you a "Get Out Of Hell Free card". A statement like shows me that you dont have any idea about Christian Theology and I honestly dont know what you learned growing up in church. No wonder you think Christianity is a sham...your personal view is completely wrong.

khcadwal is in the same boat. The view that heaven is a "bbq in the sky" is not what Christians believe.....thats more of a Hollywood Sharade.

7/26/2009 7:26:00 PM

well that is what some christians have said to me.

"i know we will be together again" etc etc etc

7/26/2009 8:01:54 PM

^^ dude, youre about the most full-of-shit person on these boards. there is no single christian theology. there are differences of theological questions even within the same denomination.

khcadwel's description of "the big BBQ in the sky" is an accurate, if somewhat simplified, analogy of heaven for a great many christian believers.

while my "Get Out of Hell Free" card is somewhat facetious, it's inherently accurate for most mainstream Protestant Christian traditions: once you are saved you are always saved -- it is not something to be renewed. According to Baptists and most Protestant denominations, If I am truly saved, my salvation is guaranteed no matter what i do, with only suicide and blaspheming the holy spirit as possible exceptions.... there are complications to this, but essentially it comes down to that.





[Edited on July 26, 2009 at 8:30 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2009 8:28:02 PM

Quote :

"People who believe in baptizing babies are significantly dumber than people who go for baptism in general."

which was why in my church, in middle school, you went through "confirmation"

so i've done both...but then i later lost respect for my church, stopped going, did a little reading on other religions and found i was happier being interfaith/interdenominational

7/26/2009 8:31:46 PM

Quote :

"If I am truly saved, my salvation is guaranteed no matter what i do, with only suicide and blaspheming the holy spirit as possible exceptions.... there "

suicide does not negate salvation

neither does instances of blashpemy

the only single sin that sends you to hell is denying God, which you have to commit your entire life in order to fulfill

7/26/2009 8:34:52 PM

oh shit....I only made this thread due o this one http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=571834 and then realized it was the lounge....i edited then but what I put in it initially was "If not, you are going straight to hell!" but I figured Omar wouldnt like that...so I quickly edited...I had thought I was in shit chat also...

7/26/2009 8:43:43 PM

Quote :

"suicide does not negate salvation neither does instances of blashpemy"

that's like, your opinion, man.

suicide is considered by Catholics and some Protestants to be an unforgivable sin. It's an arguable point though, as there's no direct biblical scripture that says so.

as for "blaspheming the Holy Spirit".... you can take Jesus' precise words, if you believe that he actually said what was attributed to him.

Quote :

"Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" - because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." (Mark 3:28-30) "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:31-32) "

7/27/2009 2:56:53 AM

7/27/2009 3:01:13 AM

i was never in trouble so i never needed saving

7/27/2009 3:06:51 AM

that's just like what a jew would say. but jesus can still save you from your jew ways.

7/27/2009 1:51:08 PM

i was baptized in the 6th grade b/c mom made me go to church and all 6th graders get baptized then. not really anyone's personal decision...

7/27/2009 1:55:50 PM

7/27/2009 2:00:24 PM

^^^^^ HAHAHA

7/27/2009 2:01:05 PM

7/27/2009 3:36:29 PM

more like,

honk if you gonna get raped.



[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 5:29 PM. Reason : ]

7/27/2009 5:28:16 PM

Quote :

"Is there any way you can be unbaptized? I was baptized against my will, and I'd like the procedure undone."

There is. I twas in the paper a week or two ago. I looked but I can't find it online. A bunch of Atheists get together and someone points a hairdryer at you.


But really, if it was against your will, then it never really happened.

7/27/2009 5:38:04 PM

Quote :

"Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" - because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." (Mark 3:28-30) "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:31-32) "

thank you for quoting scripture that "confirms" my opinion


The "Holy Spirit" is what works in your heart that leads you to repentance, denying the Holy Spirit means you never realized that you need salvation and thus you went to hell.


try understanding shit better

man may say suicide is an unforgiveable sin, but the Bible says theres only one, and thats rejecting God's plan.


dude i know this shit, dont come at me with this "dur dur your opinion" crap. Its one thing if its a different ideology, but to sit there and say its my opinion because you dont understand Baptist teachings is kind of gay

the different sects of Protestant religions are very very dissimilar, I belive the word according to the Fundamental baptist teachings

[Edited on July 28, 2009 at 10:03 AM. Reason : d]

7/28/2009 10:00:06 AM

Quote :

"A bunch of Atheists get together and someone points a hairdryer at you"

lol

7/28/2009 10:07:40 AM

i lol'd at that as well

7/28/2009 10:37:59 AM

Quote :

"BHS : blashpemy .... does not negate salvation The "Holy Spirit" is what works in your heart that leads you to repentance"

is that the same Holy Spirit that "came onto Mary" and got her preggers?

that's nice if your church wants to simplify things and tell their folks that the Holy Spirit is some warm fuzzy that's personal inside you, but "fundamental" Trinitarian theology -- Baptist or otherwise -- states that the Holy Spirit is the "third Person" of the Triune God, of identical substance as the Christ and the Father.

and we can blow all this out our ass all day long if we like, but single point I made is that, regardless of what you think -- this is according to the direct and literal words of Jesus H. Christ himself, IF you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, THEN you will be denied salvation. Period.




[Edited on July 28, 2009 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ]

7/28/2009 10:57:49 AM

Quote :

"There is. I twas in the paper a week or two ago. I looked but I can't find it online. A bunch of Atheists get together and someone points a hairdryer at you. But really, if it was against your will, then it never really happened."

So if you are baptized against your will, then that doesn't count either, right? So why bother doing it to children who can't make that decision on their own? And it seems like most older kids and teens who have it done are just going with the flow rather than making the call.

7/28/2009 11:25:23 AM

this doesnt concern you, Jewboy.

how's that foreskin of yours doing?

oh, wait. never mind.

7/28/2009 11:26:28 AM

That's a tribal initiation, not a forced acceptance of a savior.

7/28/2009 11:37:33 AM

Quote :

"IF you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, THEN you will be denied salvation. Period."

But then the question is... how exactly does one "blaspheme the Holy Spirit"

Seems that outright rejecting the prompting of the Holy Spirit, telling one that you're a sinner, needing the Grace of God, most certainly would qualify. When a person hears the truth, but responds with indignity... that sounds like it would fit the bill to me.

That, and obviously outright denying the existence of / speaking evil of the Holy Spirit in words or writings would qualify.

7/28/2009 11:40:46 AM

Quote :

"And it seems like most older kids and teens who have it done are just going with the flow rather than making the call."

nobody cares about your Bar Mitzvah.

so go on and do your jew things somewhere else. this is a Christian conversation.

7/28/2009 11:43:35 AM

Quote :

"So if you are baptized against your will, then that doesn't count either, right? So why bother doing it to children who can't make that decision on their own? And it seems like most older kids and teens who have it done are just going with the flow rather than making the call."

It depends on which demonination you're talking about. Catholics say once it's done it can't be undone.

Baptists say if you didn't go into it on your own, then it didn't really count.

7/28/2009 11:57:21 AM

Btw roddy, a lot of people that I've spoken with do not consider baptism being "saved". From my understanding they're two different things, one (Saved-ness) being even more insane than the other (Baptism), of course.

7/28/2009 12:08:33 PM

Quote :

"Seems that outright rejecting the prompting of the Holy Spirit, telling one that you're a sinner, needing the Grace of God, most certainly would qualify. When a person hears the truth, but responds with indignity... that sounds like it would fit the bill to me. That, and obviously outright denying the existence of / speaking evil of the Holy Spirit in words or writings would qualify."

The way I understood it was that it was unforgivable if you did that, and did not ask for forgiveness for it.

As in, blaspheming the Holy Spirit isn't something you do once, and then it's done and that's it.It's something you do for your whole life.

7/28/2009 12:11:16 PM

Wait...it is unforgivable only if you do not ask forgiveness?

7/28/2009 12:13:08 PM

I KNOW A GHOOOOOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7/28/2009 12:16:18 PM

Quote :

"When a person hears the truth, but responds with indignity... that sounds like it would fit the bill to me. That, and obviously outright denying the existence of / speaking evil of the Holy Spirit in words or writings would qualify."

HAH, "the truth".....

Meaning a "truth" that cannot, in any way, be proven. That makes it a non-truth and thus not "the truth" son. It is simply a very poorly thought out explanation of reality and a method of controlling people without having to be with them at all times. It comes from a pre-modern, pre-scientific era in which the simplest things were inexplicable.

If it were "the truth", it would not require faith or belief because it would be a fact. Facts are things that don't need to be believed in for them to be true, they are simply true son.

7/28/2009 12:18:50 PM

but saabturbo, god spoke to me! im special!

7/28/2009 12:22:34 PM

Quote :

"HAH, "the truth"..... Meaning a "truth" that cannot, in any way, be proven. That makes it a non-truth and thus not "the truth" son. It is simply a very poorly thought out explanation of reality and a method of controlling people without having to be with them at all times. It comes from a pre-modern, pre-scientific era in which the simplest things were inexplicable."

I hate to point it out... but the conversation (and the post in particular) was about what does and does not constitute blasphemy in the context of the 21st century Church, and Mark 3 / Matthew 12.

You're arguing over semantics based upon a completely different worldview. I'm not saying your argument does or doesn't have merit, but it has nothing at all to do with the question. Which was "What constitutes Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?" in that context. Obviously if "the truth" is taken to mean something other than "you're a sinner, in need of a savior, and Jesus Christ is that savior" then the comment is moot.

(With that said, I'm pretty sure your post qualifies as both blasphemy and trolling. ) Cheers.

[Edited on July 28, 2009 at 12:31 PM. Reason : than =\= then]

7/28/2009 12:30:32 PM

Quote :

"nobody cares about your Bar Mitzvah. so go on and do your jew things somewhere else. this is a Christian conversation."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Is joe_schmoe for real?!

Quote :

"I hate to point it out... but the conversation (and the post in particular) was about what does and does not constitute blasphemy in the context of the 21st century Church, and Mark 3 / Matthew 12."

Right, and my point is that Mark 3 / Matthew 12 are 100% worthless son.

7/28/2009 12:31:54 PM

Quote :

"Wait...it is unforgivable only if you do not ask forgiveness?"

That's the way I understand it. It's only blasphemy if you never decide that you were wrong and earnestly ask for forgiveness.

Don't go thinking I'm an expert here, though.

7/28/2009 12:41:23 PM

Quote :

"That's the way I understand it. It's only blasphemy if you never decide that you were wrong and earnestly ask for forgiveness. Don't go thinking I'm an expert here, though."

There are no experts in a field that is completely based on pure speculation son. What the fuck are you talking about?!

7/28/2009 12:53:04 PM