page deux

and since no one reads the [insert number here] post:

Quote :

"for the most part, i'm with Willy Nilly on this one i don't have any moral objections to eating whales, or even that they're in pain when and until they die (don't get me wrong...i think it's WRONG to inflict pain on any living thing when it can, within reason, be avoided...mother nature isn't kind or gentle, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be when we can, ESPECIALLY in cases where the reason for the pain is for no other reason than greed) what i object to is the very harvesting of whales as food...there are very few good reasons for whales to be used as food and many more good reasons why they shouldn't"

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 12:59 PM. Reason : NO ONE READS IT, AMIRITE?]

8/2/2009 12:58:50 PM

haha willy nilly, you ignorant fuck



"this has nothing to do with vegetarianism" - i could give to shits what you believe and eat... but if you are going to defend this animals right to live, what the fuck is the difference between it and the cow down in africa being raised in an over crowded pen, about to be slaughtered so your fat ass can eat another big mac?


I don't think animals should be pointlessly killed, but the point is, don't pick and choose which ones you like based on their resemblance to your mom and your girlfriend

8/2/2009 2:06:00 PM

haha Biofreak, you ignorant shit stain.

Quote :

"but if you are going to defend this animals right to live"

Where did I do that? In fact, I clearly said that "In and of itself, eating any particular animal isn't wrong."
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"what the fuck is the difference between it and the cow down in africa"

Duh, the cow is domesticated and sustainable. The whale is not. Do you think it's okay to eat a species of animals at such a high rate that it become extinct?
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"I don't think animals should be pointlessly killed"

Correct -- they shouldn't be.
(Biofreak +1)

Quote :

"don't pick and choose which ones you like "

That's not why they are chosen over others. Sustainability, then social acceptance / hierarchy.
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"based on their resemblance to your mom and your girlfriend"

Is this supposed to be an insult? Weak.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 2:16 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 2:14:29 PM

so what makes the whale better than these other animals? other than the fact that we as humans have decided to domesticate them? they are still just animals... I don't advocate torture or any such mistreatment of animals- hell, I am in school to be a vet. I just don't think you can try to defend these animals any more than you can any other animal that is being hunted/killed

8/2/2009 2:23:21 PM

Quote :

"so what makes the whale better than these other animals?"

Universally, nothing. One society may hold it to be higher up on their animal hierarchy, others may not. As a source of food, though, whales are not sustainable. Therefore, other sustainable sources of meat are a better choice.
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"than the fact that we as humans have decided to domesticate them?"

We have? (No, we haven't.)
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"they are still just animals"

So? So are we. Just because they aren't human doesn't mean we can do whatever the fuck we want to with them...
(Biofreak -1)

Quote :

"I don't advocate torture or any such mistreatment of animals"

I agree. That would be wrong.
(Biofreak +1)

Quote :

"I just don't think you can try to defend these animals any more than you can any other animal that is being hunted/killed"

But yes I can -- on the basis of sustainability. Why don't we hunt bald eagles for food?...polar bears?....white rhinos?
(Biofreak -1)

8/2/2009 3:01:14 PM

we don't have proof that whaling isn't sustainable, so there shouldn't be a problem with whaling if we had a quota system in place.

unfortunately, we do have evidence that naval sonar devices cause severe disruption to whales and can threaten their survival, but no one complains about that.

8/2/2009 3:07:34 PM

did we all forget that whaling is illegal, so even if it is in the best interest or they really like whale meat, the Japanese are pretending to conduct research when they are really just harvesting whales for money

8/2/2009 3:16:34 PM

there are actual whale farms that produce these animals for meat and other products.
i know this thread is NOT about anthropomorphism.
i work at a place where we are taught not to , however it is hard pressed to work with animals knowing that they all have individual characteristics and not feel some sort of compassion for them. working with a steer and knowing that he knows me by recognition then other people pulls at my heart knowing others of his kind are treated as objects. im not preaching but just giving my own 2 cents

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 3:51 PM. Reason : sorry]

8/2/2009 3:22:01 PM

I mean, I worked at a poultry research department for one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world... we hatched out and killed hundreds to thousands of chickens every week, just for research- yet you have no problem going to bojangles to get your chicken biscuit or to hooters to get your wings. I just find it so irresponsibly hypocritical to say you can kill one animal and not another simply because that is the way it has been done for years. If they were just sport killing these animals, then yes- I think that is wrong. But that isn't the case.


and willy nilly, the domesticated quote was referring to things like cows... I look forward to your next dissection of my argument


^I agree- it is hard to do when you become attached to them, but in the end, it is just another animal- we are all going to die, as are they

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 3:45 PM. Reason : s]

8/2/2009 3:43:35 PM

agreed on the hypocrites, it makes no sense how people can spout off that shit and they still eat meat.

8/2/2009 3:45:39 PM

^
No, you're a fucking idiot. Tell me what the hypocrisy is. Go ahead. Tell me. There is none. No one here is saying that it's wrong to eat animals.

Quote :

"did we all forget that whaling is illegal, so even if it is in the best interest or they really like whale meat, the Japanese are pretending to conduct research when they are really just harvesting whales for money"

Exactly.

Quote :

"we don't have proof that whaling isn't sustainable,"

So? There is a principle that whenever the possible negative results of an action are EXTREMELY damaging and PERMANENT, that the burden of proof is reversed. Whalers should have to prove, without a doubt, that whaling is sustainable before they should be allowed to. A species of animal can't be replaced.

Quote :

"so there shouldn't be a problem with whaling if we had a quota system in place."

No.
Whaling is difficult to police. Assuming for second that whaling is actually sustainable, a quota system would not be effective. Shit, we can't even keep whaling from happening with a quota of zero (it being illegal.) Get a clue.

Quote :

"unfortunately, we do have evidence that naval sonar devices cause severe disruption to whales and can threaten their survival, but no one complains about that."

No one? I do. Many people I know do. It is a serious problem -- one of the main reasons I loathe our navy.

Quote :

"there are actual whale farms that produce these animals for meat and other products."

Japan has one (if it's finished,) but I tend to agree with the thousands of scientist that consider this idea to be ludicrous and unfeasible. Not to mention the millions of people that object to the idea on the basis of their culture's animal hierarchy.... (lol... Please tell me you fell for the NPR april fools' days story about a whale farm in illinois....)

Quote :

"i know this thread is about anthropomorphism."

Uh.. what? No it's not.

Quote :

"i work at a place where we are taught not to , however it is hard pressed to work with animals knowing that they all have individual characteristics and not feel some sort of compassion for them. ... pulls at my heart knowing others of his kind are treated as objects."

Your "heart" "knows" more than your brain. Your instincts are correct -- you should have compassion for them as individual animals.

Quote :

"I just find it so irresponsibly hypocritical to say you can kill one animal and not another simply because that is the way it has been done for years."

Then you don't understand biology and domestication. Fine. You don't get it. Read a book, loser. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY FUCKING REASON PEOPLE DON'T EAT CERTAIN ANIMALS. Repeat after me: "sustainability". Say it.

Quote :

"If they were just sport killing these animals, then yes- I think that is wrong. But that isn't the case."

Well, at least you understand that.

Quote :

"and willy nilly, the domesticated quote was referring to things like cows... I look forward to your next dissection of my argument"

Well, in that case, you wrote it wrong. This is what you said: "so what makes the whale better than these other animals? other than the fact that we as humans have decided to domesticate them? they are still just animals" Now you go ask a dozen people what the "them" and "they" refer to.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 3:48:50 PM

i did a typo i know its NOT about anthropomorphism.
with that said i dont think im a total fuckin idiot , i have a right to my own opinion
not one place have i said it is wrong to eat animals
its something i CHOOSE not to do
and someone saying against one thing yet doing it as well is hypocrisy
just because a whale is believed to probably be of higher functioning then a cow and not wanting to eat the whale but eat the cow is absurd


[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM. Reason : asdf]

8/2/2009 3:53:04 PM

willy nilly does a good job of making his point- and then kills all his credibility by turing on the "I'm better than you, you shit stain" faucet... if he could fix this, he might be on his way to completing the triangle of rhetoric

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM. Reason : d]

8/2/2009 3:55:17 PM

willy nilly is a little off his rocker...that being said if its illegal which it is they can't do it...if they are doing it for research then go ahead but if they are doing it under the cover of research and killing off an almost extinct species then they should be stopped. Whale meat brings a lot of money in and whale meat showing up in Japan markets it large amounts it appears the japanese aren't doing it for research

8/2/2009 4:04:59 PM

Quote :

"someone saying against one thing yet doing it as well is hypocrisy"

Right, but who is doing that? Who said it's wrong to eat all animals, yet still does it? It's wrong to eat certain animals -- first because of sustainability, then because of social views.

Quote :

"just because a whale is believed to probably be of higher functioning then a cow and not wanting to eat the whale but eat the cow is abusurd"

To you, fine. You agree with arctic natives and the japanese that, according to social views it's okay to eat whales. But that's not the distinction being made between cows and whales. Cows are domesticated and can be sustainable sources of meat for everyone. Whales are wild, and cannot be sustainable sources of meat for everyone.

Quote :

"willy nilly does a good job of making his point- and then kills all his credibility by turing on the "I'm better than you, you shit stain" faucet..."

Actually, that is a logical fallacy. Just because some may lose the message amidst my name-calling, doesn't mean that my point is wrong. If some fall for that logical fallacy -- that's on them. Now, if I cared to make my point in such a way that caters to idiots, then yes, it'd be more effective if I chose my words better.

Quote :

"willy nilly is a little off his rocker..."

I disagree, but whatever.

Quote :

"if they are doing it for research then go ahead but if they are doing it under the cover of research and killing off an almost extinct species then they should be stopped"

Correct. The fact that some are actually supporting the idea of legalizing whaling is completely absurd. They are among the most ignorant people ever.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:09 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 4:05:27 PM

Policing whale meat impossible? Bullshit, you sell it by the pound somewhere.
Sonar saves thousands of lives. Would you rather want a cruise liner to run aground, capsize, and be a near total loss of life?

8/2/2009 4:12:12 PM

Quote :

"Policing whale meat impossible? Bullshit, you sell it by the pound somewhere."

Yes, impossible, without a global police state, that is....
"Policing marijuana impossible? Bullshit, you sell it by the pound somewhere."

Quote :

"Sonar saves thousands of lives. Would you rather want a cruise liner to run aground, capsize, and be a near total loss of life"

Sure. I don't give a fuck about a some boat up in whale territory. Humans are land animals. Whales shouldn't be hurt by us, just so we can safely invade their home. Who the fuck are we to do that?

8/2/2009 4:25:58 PM

^^if it saves the defenseless little whale, why of course!! don't be such an idiot shit stain cock sucker and agree with willy nilly! or else!!


^you tell 'em!

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : dvnp]

8/2/2009 4:27:43 PM

^

8/2/2009 4:28:27 PM

i assume you're equally as passionate about all other types of sea harvesting

8/2/2009 4:32:02 PM

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=whales_suck

8/2/2009 4:35:00 PM

they can use GPS and low-power sonar to prevent that. the only reason I'm aware of for using intensive sonar is for tracking submarines.

willy nilly, I'd like to hear your explanation for why quotas are effective for Bluefin Tuna and Moose, yet they'd never work for whales.

8/2/2009 4:36:52 PM

Quote :

"i assume you're equally as passionate about all other types of sea harvesting"

Yes. No living thing should go extinct because we overuse it. Whales, fish, sea cucumbers, whatever.
biodiversity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any [other] human interest

Quote :

"quotas are effective for Bluefin Tuna and Moose"

Only time will tell if they are, in fact, effective.
But yeah, I'd assume they are less threatened than whales -- if not, the hunting/fishing of them should also be banned.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 4:37:25 PM

^^^lol

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ^]

8/2/2009 4:38:02 PM

Quote :

"Humans are land animals"

haha. humans are land animals. we should stay the fuck out of the skies, out of space, and the fuck out of the waters. you know, that michael phelps is a real son-of-a-bitch. we should resort back to our horse and carriage ways, and die of dysentery and be bit by rattle snakes whenever we travel.

Quote :

"I don't give a fuck about a some boat up in whale territory"

just out of curiosity, is the inverse true? do you not give a fuck about a whale up in human territory? a whale that is beaching itself? or what about humphry, the humpback whale who found his way a couple hundred miles inland through northern california rivers?

8/2/2009 4:39:45 PM

FUCK A BEACHED WHALE

trying invading our human land and shit

8/2/2009 4:41:35 PM

Quote :

"haha. humans are land animals. we should stay the fuck out of the skies, out of space, and the fuck out of the waters. you know, that michael phelps is a real son-of-a-bitch. we should resort back to our horse and carriage ways, and die of dysentery and be bit by rattle snakes whenever we travel."

Holy fucking straw-man! Could you possibly put more words in my mouth, just to refute them?
The point is that our interests in doing whatever are not more important than the survival of entire species of life.

Quote :

"just out of curiosity, is the inverse true? do you not give a fuck about a whale up in human territory? a whale that is beaching itself? or what about humphry, the humpback whale who found his way a couple hundred miles inland through northern california rivers?"

Neither beaches nor rivers are human territory, fool.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:44 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 4:42:12 PM

so where is this magical threshold that humans must not pass?


and just for the record, i agree that whaling is wrong because it ruins ecosystems and is unsustainable. you've made your points and soundly argued them. i just think you're going out of your way to be a dick to people.

[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : dick to people]

8/2/2009 4:45:14 PM

if whales didn't want to be hunted by humans, then they wouldn't be so tasty.

8/2/2009 4:45:59 PM

willy nilly's attitude is not uncommon in the hippie culture. what with the casual suggestion of wiping out the human race and all. there's a show on discovery or the hitler channel that is solely devoted to this hippie wet dream.
if anyone needs to be washed down the drain and caught in a grease trap, it's hippies

8/2/2009 4:46:18 PM

Because we're always fucking active pinging submarines What makes you think that low-powered sonar is better for whales than boiling water with the hydrophone? What the fuck is GPS good for?

Stay out of the water,
stay out of the skies,
get bit by a rattlesnake,
Wait for the ambulance and die.

8/2/2009 4:57:47 PM

I agree with Willy Nilly's bottom line.. sustainability. I really hope you guys are just trolling.

Quote :

"Why don't we hunt bald eagles for food?...polar bears?....white rhinos?"

8/2/2009 4:58:08 PM

if there was a market for it, i'm sure people would

8/2/2009 4:59:11 PM

"if it exists, there is someone in japan willing to pay to stick his dick in it"

8/2/2009 5:16:25 PM

Whaling pisses me off. I am a huge hunter, fisherman, spearfisherman and all around animal killer and I hate hippies and liberals more than anyone, but...... the killing of endangered animals is just wrong. If japan really needs food that badly they can import agricultural crops from other countries. The ocean if also full of other fish and seafood that can easily support their tiny island country. Japan is also one of the world leaders in aquaculture and have always been a pioneer in saltwater aquaculture. Whale meat is just a cultural thing to them which hardly justifies the whaling industry.

8/2/2009 5:30:02 PM

god so much bitching in this thread

here's a solution for you:

8/2/2009 5:53:50 PM

^
"'Nuke the whales?' You don't really believe that, do you?"
"I dunno... Gotta nuke something."
"Touche"

8/2/2009 5:59:26 PM

hahaha I never noticed the bumper stickers before

bomb the indians and take their casinos

8/2/2009 6:00:56 PM

BOOM, HEADSHOT

8/2/2009 6:12:14 PM

LOL that this thread went this far

I just kind of made it while watching the show and went to the beach then left for the beach shortly after.

EPIC TROLLING

8/3/2009 9:19:25 PM

Quote :

"the rest of the video is too horrific to show you"

fuck you. you don't know what I can handle. just for that, I'm gonna go eat the shit out of some whale. where the fuck is the closest mayflower?

8/3/2009 9:23:28 PM

^You talking oversized female waitstaff?

8/3/2009 9:39:08 PM

nah

8/4/2009 5:53:37 PM

Quote :

"I don't give a fuck about a some boat up in whale territory. Humans are land animals. Whales shouldn't be hurt by us, just so we can safely invade their home. Who the fuck are we to do that?"

I'll take a handful of whale deaths over preventable maritime disasters.

Please go on about humans being land animals and explain where they should and shouldn't go.

8/4/2009 7:38:33 PM

They shouldn't take any action that results in an unreasonable risk of reducing a population of any animal to the point that it is endangered or extinct. Fuck you for disagreeing. You will lose. The earth does not belong to Homo sapiens.

8/4/2009 7:51:08 PM

we should probably just hunt whales to extinction so everyone will stop arguing about it. I wonder what whale tastes like...

8/4/2009 8:01:11 PM

If that happens, I'll spend the rest of my life killing fuckers like you. Promise.

8/4/2009 8:04:07 PM

I'd try a whale burger.

8/4/2009 8:05:16 PM

yeah, let's organize a group buy of some whale meat. someone can bring a grill to the tunnel painting and we can cook some up.

8/4/2009 8:06:27 PM

Better yet, road trip to "dougs" and have some tasty manatee burgers?

8/4/2009 8:13:57 PM