this is not even worth debating, he is comparing apples to oranges

9/14/2009 7:06:05 PM

I'm still lolling at how bent out of shape people are getting about someone pointing out that a politician is a liar

9/14/2009 7:07:47 PM

i don't think anyone is "bent out of shape" that he called obama a liar. mainly because he wasn't actually even lying.

more like, people are disappointed but not really surprised that civil discourse in this country has fallen to such a low that even elected members of congress are shouting at the president during a joint session of congress like it's a fucking town hall full of batshit crazy kooks.

at least that's how i feel. but then again i am sane, so...

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 7:13 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 7:12:02 PM

^^yeah i guess its kind of like kanye west telling a singer that they're overrated

how about you pull your head out of your ass and realize this congressmen is the brainless head of the body of the movement that uses intimidation, mob justice, and irrational accusations in order to annoy enough people so that they will get some compromise just to shut up

he broke the rules in public, in front of congress, the president, and millions of people
immediately realizes the mistake and offers a phone and written appology
then sees some support then refuses to give congress or the rest of america a public apology that we deserve, while asking for donations on youtube

this guy is about as spineless as it gets, but for the current glen beck crowd that is just the criteria to become the movement's leader

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 7:16 PM. Reason : ^]

9/14/2009 7:16:16 PM

Quote :

"this congressmen is the brainless head of the body of the movement that uses intimidation, mob justice, and irrational accusations in order to annoy enough people so that they will get some compromise just to shut up"

ok salisburyboy...btw the industry term for those tactics are "public relations"...they're not limited to republicans, and they're certainly not limited to politics

it just seems like if Congress is a highway, there are wrecks and stalls all over the place, but the big news story is a speeding ticket


[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 7:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 7:17:46 PM

part of that is cause there is no new major news to talk about
obama's speech didnt have much new info, he had to spend time rebutting a lot of the misinformation the joe wilson crowd disseminate
so naturally joe's blunder stood out,

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 7:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 7:25:12 PM

i guess i'll just chalk this being such a big story up to the "24 hours news" era

Quote :

"mainly because he wasn't actually even lying."

i think all politicians are liars (ie, they lie or twist the truth on a regular basis...its part of the job)

therefore regardless of whether obama was lying or speaking in crazy openended generalized terms that arent technically lying, or if he's telling the truth 100%...doesnt change the fact that you dont become PoTUS by not being a very effective liar...nor do you become elected senator, house rep, or even mayor of a podunk town without lying

i'm surprised there hasn't been more feedback to the effect of "hey a politician is calling another politician a liar...try looking in the mirror, isnt that the pot calling the kettle black" etc


[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 7:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 7:26:17 PM

It's awfully easy to say that all politicians are liars. I think it would be rather harder to prove it. More likely, they do a lot of things that demonstrate a tendency towards weasel-ness, ignorance, incompetence, or some other negative things. But out-and-out lying, I suspect, is less common than you're making it out to be. Mostly because it's dangerous. If you get called a liar, that can be a big deal. If someone can prove that you're a liar, you might end up having to resign or get impeached.

9/14/2009 8:20:55 PM

Well, everyone lies. I haven't encountered a person that won't lie when it's necessary and they're sure they won't get caught. So you could say that all politicians are liars, but it doesn't carry much significance.

However, in order to be successful in politics, you do have to be..."careful" with the truth. That isn't the same as lying. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that most politicians are less forthcoming with their beliefs/views than they would be in private company, though.

9/14/2009 8:47:12 PM

Well, to that extent I agree. They probably lie as often as the rest of us. Some of them may even have to lie less, because higher exposure means a higher likelihood of getting caught. I can lie about some fairly serious shit without Bernstein and Woodward crawling up my ass.

But, as I said, they demonstrate a lot of weasel-ness, what you call being "careful."

---

On another tack, I would like someone to explain to me why Obama or the Democrats and general would intentionally include a mechanism that allowed them to extend coverage to illegals. It would be a huge political liability that provides them with virtually no benefits. Illegal immigrants can't vote. Naturalized immigrants can, of course, but they vote heavily democratic anyway and aren't likely to go republican over whether we give their illegal friends and relatives free shit. Meanwhile, you only harden conservative opposition and alienate many people in the middle.

Lying about it might reduce those negative aspects, but the positives are still minimal -- and if you get caught, the negative result is doubled.

So this wanker from SC (and those who agree with him) apparently think that Obama is lying directly to the public and to the congress in a nefarious effort to provide medical care to immigrants because...well, because what? Out of the kindness of his fucking heart? He seems like a nice guy and all, but I don't see him risking his career and his party to do a highly unpopular thing to benefit people that can't vote.

9/14/2009 9:54:34 PM