2

9/15/2009 5:08:23 PM

Quote :

"If you dug around online long enough, you would find many instances of LEOs losing guns, shooting themselves or others by accident, or having weapons stolen and not knowing about it until later. Stupid? Yes! Dangerous? Yes! Isolated insident to ALE? No! "

9/15/2009 6:50:40 PM

Quote :

"but this is kind of a funny argument at the school where a drunk and his brother shot and killed two people while tailgating"

You mean the non-NCSU students that shot two Jarheads (not NCSU students either) all of whom were 21+?????????????????????

Quote :

"assault rifle vs normal service firearm is a different argument i guess, but in general regarding why ALE agents might need to be armed"

this still does not rationalize why the ALE needs a M14 or Sig Sauer instead of the normal service pistol or 12 gauge shotgun
every other police officer carries.

Here's my opinion of A.L.E

Should they....

- Bust some obvious dumb fuck that runs into the ABC store, while 3 chicks that look like their 18 sit in the car, and comes out with 5 bottles of Malibu... Sure
- Should the A.L.E bust some frat douche who is in line at food lion collecting monies from his underage frat buddy for the case of Busch light in his hand.... I guess if he's bored
- Write some citations to some tailgaters who are acting obnoxiously drunk and are underage... fine in my book.

on the other hand....

- Should they take pictures of some guy leaving the ABC store, tail him for 3 miles back to Meredith, take photos of him handing a brown bag to some Meredith girls, than bust the Meredith girls threatening to further charge them with obstruction of justice for not coughing up information about they guy that bought them beer..... NO (happened to a friend of mine)

- Should they pull a car leaving food lion with a passenger known to be in possession of a case of beer and use some sort of convoluted logic to claim since their are 4 passengers and 24 beers than its 6 beers per person. Thus he has evidence that the two passengers in the back seat are attempting to drink too............... NO (happened to my roommate)

- Cite two girls for "underage" possession ignoring the fact that the beers are in closer proximity to the two vacant towels and
are being consumed by their boyfriends who are 21+ and swimming in the ocean..... FUCK NO

- Randomly card at will otherwise calm normal acting tailgaters in hopes of catching one of those damn under 21 criminal drinkers.... NO

- Use tax payer money to go "undercover" through UT finding freshman daddy's little rich girl drinking a margarita..... NO

9/15/2009 8:51:10 PM

I would like to see some statistics that show in what ways the ALE is effective. For instance, do a large number of the people they cite never drink alcohol again? Does their presence deter wreck less behavior? Do they do anything to discourage drunk driving, or do they instead mainly stop sober people in front of the store that have not even commenced drinking?

9/15/2009 11:33:43 PM

^^so basically you think some people should be able to break the law with no fear of repercussions

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:24 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 12:23:41 AM

no, what he's saying is that the amount of resources that are committed to enforcing minor crimes is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money. Those resources could be used to address bigger problems than college students drinking underage.

9/16/2009 7:36:37 AM

^

9/16/2009 7:47:19 AM

I don't have a problem with the fact that they have that kind of firepower. I take issue with the fact that there isn't some policy where the assualt rifles are kept in an armory or something unless they are needed. I can't imagine a situation where it would be to the officer's advantage to have an assualt rifle properly secured in the trunk of his car while doing routine investigations. Unless he is going to walk into every random club/bar/store/whatever carrying the rifle (which would blow the cover anyways) what good does it do in the trunk?

Basically in my mind if the ALE gets a tip about a drug cartel or moonshine operation out in BFE then sure, check the rifle out and put it in the trunk, I could see it being useful during a raid. Even so information needs to be gathered first, so the guy going to go stakeout: checkout the rifle and keep in the trunk but when it's over, turn it back in to the armory. I mean sure other cops/agencies have weapons stolen from cars and whatnot, but how many of them carry assualt rifles all the time? (I am asking, I really don't know)

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 7:59 AM. Reason : ]

9/16/2009 7:58:45 AM

There were similar problems with the DMV's law enforcement agency, which eventually led them to be consolidated with the highway patrol. I think the same needs to be done with the ALE, probably moving them under the SBI.

9/16/2009 7:59:24 AM

Quote :

"You mean the non-NCSU students NCSU student and his brother that shot two Jarheads a marine and his friend (not NCSU students either) all of whom except one of the two offenders were 21+?????????????????????"

yeah, those guys

also not sure why it matters whether anyone involved was a student

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 9:46 AM. Reason : *]

9/16/2009 9:44:35 AM

Either way they ALE would have done nothing to stop it, they would have been off in some corner trying to check inside the Bojangles cups at some sororities tent.

9/16/2009 9:48:39 AM

Quote :

"so basically you think some people should be able to break the law with no fear of repercussions "

I think you should only take risks, including breaking the laws, only if you are prepared and/or able to face the consequences.

I do not though beleive that a legality is equal to morality. Many laws are unjust and in many cases infrine on the natural
rights of citizens. In this case we discussing the consumption of alcohol by adults of 18-20 yr old group. I fully support
natural laws (murder, rape, theft, destruction of property, assault). Other laws though are merely artifact of our society that
some legislature has decided or was coerced into passing. We could even divert the argument that even though a law exists does not
mean it has to be enforced to the extent in which Gestapo like ALE agents roaming around preying on underage drinkers. Plenty of
other minor unlawful activities take place everyday that do not get nearly the attention.
Technically anyone having 6 buddies over to play a $20 buy-in Texas Holdem Game is BREAKING THE LAW this does not mean we
shoudl form an agency to go house to house to stop unlawful gambling activities. However, when the game grows to 100 people with the
event coordinator charging $5 admission at the door then the police rightfully respond to the illegal activity.

Quote :

"Either way they ALE would have done nothing to stop it, they would have been off in some corner trying to check inside the Bojangles cups at some sororities tent."

That is what they WERE doing during the shooting.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM. Reason : aa]

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:19 PM. Reason : a]

9/16/2009 12:18:24 PM

Quote :

" Breaking News: Bill Chandler, the director of the state Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement, stepped down abruptly Monday"

9/21/2009 5:03:56 PM

Why does this not seem abrupt?

9/21/2009 8:33:58 PM

Quote :

"RALEIGH - The director of the N.C. Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement announced his sudden retirement Monday, eight days after reports his agency bought all of its agents assault rifles and that two of the weapons were missing. Bill Chandler's retirement was announced in an afternoon e-mail to the agency's employees from Reuben F. Young, the state secretary of the N.C. Department of Crime Control and Public Safety. Chandler, who was appointed to head ALE by former Gov. Mike Easley in November 2007, had worked at the agency 30 years as a field agent and supervisor. Young said Chandler, 51, put in his retirement papers after the two had a private talk Monday morning. Though he would not discuss what specifically triggered the director's departure, the secretary said he was concerned by issues raised in a Sept. 13 article printed in The News & Observer and The Charlotte Observer. "I think it raised some questions, clearly, about the need for those firearms," Young said. "Obviously, you're always concerned when a firearm is misplaced or stolen. There are folks out there who would get their hands on those who won't do good things with them." Ledford to take over Chandler will be replaced by John Ledford, a former ALE agent who is currently the sheriff of Madison County. Ledford, 44, will take over the agency in November, according to Young. Chandler was not available for comment. A spokesman said Monday he was out of the office, on leave. "I think it's important to recognize that anytime you have an employee who has given 30 years of his life in service to the state that that ought to be recognized," Young said. "Director Chandler served the state with honor and distinction. I found him to be a very honest person and someone who worked very hard. We are thankful for his service." This is not the first time an ALE director has lost his job over questions involving the agency's handling of firearms. Ronald Dale resigned in 1997 as The N&O reported that the agency had bought M-14 rifles, a fully automatic military weapon. Dale kept three at his hunting lodge. Gov. Beverly Perdue welcomed Ledford to his new post but will also want answers from the new director. "Clearly, the issue of missing weapons is of great concern to the governor," said Chrissy Pearson, Perdue's press secretary. "She has talked at length with Secretary Young about making sure that issue was resolved." Ledford was unavailable for comment. A receptionist at his office in the mountain town of Marshall said he was on vacation this week. The Sig Sauer Model 552s purchased by the agency are semi-automatic assault rifles typically marketed to SWAT teams and Special Forces soldiers for close-quarters, urban combat. The ALE director had one of the $1,495 rifles assigned to him for his use. Force rarely needed With 104 full-time agents, ALE's primary responsibility is to enforce state laws on the purchase and sale of alcoholic beverages. Though its officers are rarely involved in situations where the use of deadly force is required, ALE is the only state law-enforcement agency to provide every agent with an assault rifle. The newspapers also reported last week that Chandler approved the purchase of 150 new Kimber .45 caliber pistols, costing $1,055 each, to replace the sidearms agents have carried less than six years. Kimber, a high-end American firearms manufacturer, says on its Web site that similar pistols are used by the U.S. Olympic rapid-fire target shooting team. A gun buff and collector, Chandler stood by the choice last week, saying the new pistols have numerous special features, including an engraving of the ALE seal that would make them easier to track if stolen. Both the Sig assault rifles and Kimber pistols were paid for with forfeiture money granted to the state from federal drug prosecutions. Sen. Ellie Kinnaird, a Carrboro Democrat who co-chairs the appropriations committee on public safety, said she was "greatly disturbed" by the report on the ALE rifles but added that lawmakers should have more closely scrutinized the purchase. Kinnaird also questioned a state policy that allows retiring officers to purchase their service weapons for $1. Rep. Alice Bordsen, a Democrat from Mebane who co-chairs the House counterpart of Kinnaird's committee, said she will examine the agency's gun purchases in future oversight hearings. She also said lawmakers are likely to take another look at the $1 retirement purchase policy, especially as to whether assault rifles qualify for the discount. Rep. Ray Rapp, who represents the district that includes Madison County, praised Ledford's integrity and professionalism. He recalled Ledford several years ago insisting that Rapp arrange for Ledford to sit down with then-House Speaker Jim Black, a longtime defender of video poker. "He drove 8 and 1/2 hours, roundtrip, to tell [Black] how corrupt and awful video poker is," Rapp said, "and told him some dramatic stories about people who left their paychecks on Friday at the convenience store." Black later pleaded guilty to federal corruption charges and is serving a five-year prison sentence. "

9/22/2009 11:12:06 AM

Quote :

"Both the Sig assault rifles and Kimber pistols were paid for with forfeiture money granted to the state from federal drug prosecutions."

Well, I'm a little less indignant since the taxpayers didn't pay for them, but I think the money could have been better spent nonetheless.

9/22/2009 11:16:46 AM

They could have used the money to fix potholes or some shit.

9/22/2009 11:20:28 AM

Quote :

"She also said lawmakers are likely to take another look at the $1 retirement purchase policy, especially as to whether assault rifles qualify for the discount."

Uhh, no current or former law officer that I know of is allowed to own a fully automatic, short barreled assault rifle. That goes double for civilians. People are stupid. If anyone was allowed to purchase their fully auto service weapon, the person who allowed it should be jailed under current firearms laws (that means 10+ years).

9/22/2009 11:32:43 AM

Quote :

"natural rights of citizens. In this case we discussing the consumption of alcohol by adults of 18-20 yr old group"

lol now you're just being stupid. there are no fucking "natural rights" to drink alcohol. you just sound butthurt...did you get busted by ALE at some point?

[Edited on September 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

9/22/2009 11:35:31 AM

Actually I never did. I just think its ridiculous that we waste resources and harass a particular segment of the population all in some vain effort to stop a 20 yr old from cracking a bud light on a Friday Night

College Kids having fun NEED BACKUP

9/22/2009 12:01:32 PM

^^^

Quote :

"The Sig Sauer Model 552s purchased by the agency are semi-automatic assault rifles typically marketed to SWAT teams and Special Forces soldiers for close-quarters, urban combat. The ALE director had one of the $1,495 rifles assigned to him for his use."

It never said anything about being automatic or a short barreled rifle.

[Edited on September 22, 2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason : +]

9/22/2009 12:05:27 PM

The should take some of that money and buy everyone one of these:

http://www.truckvault.com/Default.aspx

9/22/2009 12:14:01 PM

Quote :

"Man if this were the US Army, they'd have the entire ALE staff on lockdown until those weapons were found. Apparently it's not a huge issue to them."

Shit, if it was the military, someone's ass would have been royally reamed the instant it wasn't turned back into the armory at the end of the day. But yeah, I say lock down the dumbasses. Have them sleep in their offices and spend the day tearing the city inside out until they find it. The way LEOs handle weapons and maintain accountability of sensitive items has always been appalling to me.

[Edited on September 22, 2009 at 4:29 PM. Reason : Missing bracket]

9/22/2009 4:28:28 PM

Quote :

"Randomly card at will otherwise calm normal acting tailgaters in hopes of catching one of those damn under 21 criminal drinkers.... NO "

i know this is a really stupid question, but is that legal?

i guess you dont need any probable cause or anything to just ask for ID, right?

9/22/2009 10:33:05 PM

I guess the drinking laws make you look "suspicious" if you are young and at a tailgating event.

9/22/2009 10:36:27 PM

bttt

2/2/2010 8:37:19 AM

Quote :

"The Duplin County district attorney has asked state Alcohol Law Enforcement agents to provide him with detailed reports on the alcohol and moonshine bust last week that netted six members of the Willie Nelson entourage. District Attorney Dewey Hudson said Monday that he had heard many complaints since Thursday, when the entourage members were cited outside the Duplin County Events Center for possession of a half-ounce or less of marijuana and three-fourths of a quart of moonshine. Some have questioned why 14 ALE agents were sent to work the Willie Nelson concert with Duplin County sheriff's deputies and Kenansville police. Others have complained that such raids will keep other bands and musicians from booking the $13 million events center in the small town of Kenansville. "A lot of these events centers are in the red to begin with," said Hudson, a prosecutor for three decades. "There's a lot of people wondering, 'Why did you do this to begin with?' I'm trying to make sure everything has been done appropriately." Nelson, the maverick country music star with the reputation of being a longtime pot smoker, was scheduled to play Thursday night before a crowd of 3,000. But an hour before the show, ALE agents and local law enforcement officers fanned out across the events center grounds and ended up citing 14 people with 25 violations. Nelson's bass player, Dan Edward "Bee" Spears, 60, of Franklin, Tenn., was cited on a tour bus where many of the citations were issued. Five production crew members were also cited. John Duane Vogt, the general manager of the events center, and Donald Farrior, an assistant from Kenansville, were cited by ALE agents for interfering with the investigation. Hudson said four ALE agents are expected to turn over written reports by midweek. "You've got a lot of people upset that ALE did what it did," Hudson said. "I just want to make sure all the charges are warranted." "

2/2/2010 9:29:22 PM

Quote :

"i know this is a really stupid question, but is that legal? i guess you dont need any probable cause or anything to just ask for ID, right?"

I thought it was a state law to have your ID on you if you are drinking...or was that just a rule for tailgating?

I think either way if it's an offical law or rule I think they may have the right to make sure you are following those rules since when we are tailgating we are on state owned property.

I do think it's pretty sad that ALE needs assault rifles...
I was wondering is there any information that shows what most of their arrests or whatever are from...like what % of the arrests and tickets and actual enforment of laws they make are for underage drinking...
If it's the majority of the % then what underage college student is honestly going to be doing something in which the ALE will feel the need to use an assault rifle? I could totally understand rubber bullets or some other non-lethal form on a drunk crowd to control it...but an assault rifle...really?

And now they are missing 2 of them...well I guess they will turn up when there is a murder linked to them...

Quote :

"there are no fucking "natural rights" to drink alcohol. you just sound butthurt...did you get busted by ALE at some point? "

I mean you might not think it's a natural right, but honestly I think it should be considered a natural right to allow someone to decide what goes into your body..that goes for anything...
but that's just me.

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 8:34 AM. Reason : ]

2/3/2010 8:32:32 AM

2/3/2010 10:07:26 AM

wait.

so if narcotics are the responsibility of the ALE, then what does the state's DEA office do?

2/3/2010 10:59:30 AM

the DEA is a federal agency, the ALE is a state agency

2/3/2010 11:20:03 AM

Quote :

"no, what he's saying is that the amount of resources that are committed to enforcing minor crimes is a ridiculous waste of taxpayer money. Those resources could be used to address bigger problems than college students drinking underage."

2/3/2010 12:49:07 PM

There's no greater cause than making sure that people aren't allowed to make their own decisions about what to put in their body. Unless they've orbited the sun 21 times, of course. That changes everything.

I say give these ALE agents more assault rifles, tasers, rocket launchers, and whatever else they need to deliver swift justice to those miscreants attempting to consume alcohol before the government has given them the go ahead. ALE serves a noble purpose. Since this is a free country, we need government agents to tell us how to exercise our freedom, and they must be there to punish us. Remember, living is a priviledge, not a right, and our masters reserve the right to revoke that priviledge at any time if we step out of line.

2/3/2010 1:12:30 PM

good thing the outrageous hyperbole control officers aren't armed with lethal weapons

[Edited on February 3, 2010 at 1:23 PM. Reason : =]

2/3/2010 1:20:39 PM

I'LL NEVER SMOKE WEED WITH WILLIE AGAIN

2/3/2010 1:29:40 PM

I am glad I pay taxes so some stupid fucks can establish that Willie Nelson has pot and moon shine in his tour bus.

2/3/2010 11:06:45 PM