lol please tell me the biggest mass murder Trotsky committed.

10/21/2009 12:28:04 PM

carrying out Lenin's orders, stalin didn't "invent" liquidations in russia

4 million + during and after the russian revolution

10/21/2009 12:31:15 PM

What about all the good things Hitler did?

10/21/2009 12:36:28 PM

After reading Dunn's quote, it actually makes me a little queasier. Admiring Mao for overcoming the odds, not giving up, and toppling the Nationalists is the equivalent of saying you have to admire Hitler for raising up an army of brown shirts and quickly and efficiently taking over Germany. Or admiring his regime for so efficiently and effectively annihilating millions of people with beautiful logistical planning under very difficult circumstances. Yes, Mao pulled off a small miracle that's worth studying from an academic perspective, but the political and ethical baggage his actions carry overshadow any sort of public comparison in all but the most specific situations.

Or, let's put it in a different perspective. If I compared say Obama's ability for mass organization to achieve political means to Hitler's election or Mao's revolution, I'm sure I'd be dragged into the street and beaten for it.

10/21/2009 2:17:45 PM

Quote :

"Ms. Dunn is now trying to pin her quote on a dead adviser to President George H.W. Bush. "The Mao quote is one I picked up from the late Republican strategist Lee Atwater from something I read in the late 1980s, so I hope I don't get my progressive friends mad at me," Ms. Dunn told CNN. She went on to explain that Fox host Glenn Beck's criticism was off-base because "the use of the phrase 'favorite political philosophers' was intended as irony, but clearly the effort fell flat -- at least with a certain Fox commentator whose sense of irony may be missing.""

- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704597704574487431322664964.html


[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/21/2009 2:23:16 PM

We're smarter than you are! Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah-nah!

10/21/2009 2:25:55 PM

^ The right has been hilariously insecure recently, maybe it's because they don't have enough testosterone:

http://news.aol.com/article/study-finds-mccain-voters-lost/729783

10/21/2009 2:33:36 PM

10/21/2009 3:00:43 PM

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2009/10/17/anita-dunn-blames-lee-atwater-quoting-mao

Quote :

"The issue isn’t whether Lee Atwater ever quoted Mao. A simpleton knows you don’t adopt somebody’s philosophy as your own simply by quoting them. But when you quote them and then explicitly say the person is one of your biggest influences, then you make it your own. So Dunn’s lame attempt to source the quote back to Atwater and have that somehow serve as an explanation for what she said is patently ridiculous. "

And only a simpleton would buy Dunn's pathetic coverup.



[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

10/21/2009 3:05:31 PM

my whole point is you should be upset/offended/whatever about mao, among several others, being quoted by a in office political figure.

10/21/2009 3:10:24 PM

I'd rather my leaders not be closed minded

10/21/2009 3:13:45 PM

Quote :

"^Heh, and now, gentlemen, let me show you a textbook example of confirmation bias. [See posts below mine]"

10/21/2009 3:23:29 PM

lol

10/21/2009 3:31:11 PM

Quote :

"I'd rather my leaders not be closed minded"

You're right. We should always be open to genocide. Hurray!

10/21/2009 3:36:09 PM

I dont think anyone is promoting genocide. This chick thought she'd try to make herself look smart and instead came off sounding like a retard. The right wing echo chamber then had a field day with it.

10/21/2009 3:43:38 PM

Oh, I don't think anyone's advocating genocide either, save for say, Chairman Mao, who is safely dead and buried. That being said, quoting Mao as a political philosopher makes about as much sense as quoting Stalin.

10/21/2009 3:51:01 PM

Quote :

"I disagree with some of my favorite philosophers on damn near every point. Do people seriously only like people they agree with? Jesus Christ, you people must miss out on a lot of good, enriching stuff."

You are also someone who twists words just to win an argument on the internet, so your opinion really doesn't mean jack shit,

10/21/2009 4:22:50 PM

Quote :

"You are also someone who twists words just to win an argument on the internet, so your opinion really doesn't mean jack shit,"

You mean I like to get clear on what's being discussed, and then only offer my opinion when I know something? Hmm. Fuck right off you ugly little troll.

Quote :

"You're right. We should always be open to genocide. Hurray!"

Congrats you're an idiot!

10/21/2009 4:28:26 PM

,

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ]

10/21/2009 4:49:51 PM

Do you agree with the following quote:

Quote :

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ]

10/21/2009 4:50:31 PM

Quote :

"Congrats you're an idiot!"

Coming from you, that assessment means... just about jack didly squat. Congratulations, you're irrelevant!

10/21/2009 5:08:12 PM

Quote :

"I disagree with some of my favorite philosophers on damn near every point. Do people seriously only like people they agree with?"

I find a lot of people I disagree with fascinating and engaging. I happen to draw the cutoff line for my favorites somewhere before that crowd which accepts the "correction" of dissent through death or "reeducation".

10/21/2009 5:55:11 PM

Quote :

"I happen to draw the cutoff line for my favorites somewhere before that crowd which accepts the "correction" of dissent through death or "reeducation"."

you'd be leaving out damn near every world leader ever.

10/21/2009 6:32:26 PM

hi, just popping in to post my favorite reagan quote

"If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with." - April 7th, 1970, on his attitude towards student civil rights activists, dissenters, & Vietnam War protesters.

10/21/2009 9:24:38 PM

Quote :

"Mao gets a free pass only because his philosophy, communism, while utterly discredited in practice and it's utterly horrendous record on human rights, still retains a soft spot in the idealistic minds of the American left. he never declared war on America"

While this is definitely sensationalized, I can understand why avoiding war would win any world leader a degree of reprieve in some peoples' and governments' minds, especially a people that only cares about what affects them... Yes, I mean us. However, many of these men, including Mao, were indeed evil, but it would be foolish to conclude that no information gleaned from such leaders is valid and is unequivocally declared banished from public discussion. That simply does not compute.

Also, don't confuse the basic human ideals of feeding the poor, caring for the sick, which exist outside the associated enslaved communist system of government. You forget that this form of government is not the only option to accomplish the aforementioned basic human ideals. This line of thinking runs the risk of rashly throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. For example, a famous quote from someone you will inevitably label a communist/socialist/leftist threat to American Freedom.

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”

This helps describe the frustrations of Mother Theresa, some Catholics, and other Christians that follow the tenets of kindness and achieving basic human rights. However, by some of your own definitions... she too, is nothing more than a socialist at best and communist at worst, because of her ideals which are automatically communist? That logic is inherently incorrect. Again, do not confuse ideals, with forms of government, that's idiotic.

Quote :

"Every President since WWII has actively supported a terrible, repressive regime."

QFT. I don't agree with you on a lot of policy issues, but you are reasonable, which is an astonishing asset apparently, at least in this thread.

Quote :

"Lenin and Trotsky are great reads... so is Mao. Then again if you're one of the chucklefucks present in this thread, you may NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO TOLERATE AN EVIL SO STRONG"

haha, you bastard. Yes, they are very interesting and compelling people that really expand on many facets of history and life. For example, the dynamics of everything from leadership qualities, political science, cultural influence, social science, religion, etc. If people want to acquire a form of wisdom, they should read about these times and these leaders, otherwise they are simply being willfully ignorant for no good reason.

Quote :

"Anyone who has a political ideology that's different from a mix of American Exceptionalism, Evangelical Christianity, and Neoconservatism is EVIL."

That's what I'm hearing as well, and it does not compute. That's basically a "burn the books" philosophy to education. Now who does THAT sound like? Remember, even the Catholic church has done terrible things throughout the course of history, a church Mother Theresa loved dearly. In fact, far more evil than these men combined.

Quote :

"There are a lot of people who are quoted, followed, or even revered who weren't necessarily good people. Machiavelli, Napoleon Bonaparte, Julius Ceasar, Peter the Great, Richard III (The Lionheart) just to name a few that pop into my head. Hell, in our own country Andrew Jackson was a drunkard and a jackass. The former initiated the deaths of thousands of Native Americans. Regardless, he is venerated for expanding the power of the Presidency and has his statue in DC sitting right next to the Whitehouse (at the center of Lafayette Square, which is one of the more confusing things in this city). Hearing a quote from one of them doesn't necessarily make me think that the person speaking aspires to the person they're quoting."

QFMFT


Oh, and there will be another great Republican President, it is just a matter of time.

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 10:35 PM. Reason : -]

10/21/2009 10:14:56 PM

hugo chavez = hitler

10/22/2009 4:20:43 AM

she doesn't actually like Mao, it was just a move to butter up relations with the Chinese

10/22/2009 8:57:14 AM

Quote :

"However, many of these men, including Mao, were indeed evil, but it would be foolish to conclude that no information gleaned from such leaders is valid and is unequivocally declared banished from public discussion. That simply does not compute."

Quote :

"Hearing a quote from one of them doesn't necessarily make me think that the person speaking aspires to the person they're quoting."

No, of course not, and no one is saying that we should banish these people, their actions, or their words entirely from the intellectual arena. To do so would be at our peril. However, the way she framed the entire example based on the quote implies an admiration for Mao's style of leadership and fighting spirit. She's quoting Mao as an inspiration not simply to make a point. I suppose I can see how she was trying to be ironic, trying to be edgy and intellectual, but it was a very poor choice in my opinion.

Personally, I don't think this is worth scuttling her career over: I'm willing to chalk this up as one of those "looked better on paper than in delivery" moments that all mortals have in the political era at some point in their careers.

Still, Mao touches a personal nerve for me, and having done a pretty extensive study on contemporary Chinese politics, for me he ranks up there with Adolf Hitler as someone whose quotes one should frame carefully; again, when I see this quote, it's like saying "You know, Adolf Hitler was challenged by the German ruling establishment, the military, and fellow National Socialists on whether or not he could win elections or succeed in challenging the West on issues like Czechoslovakia. They have superior forces, they have more money, how can you win? How can you do this? Yet he persisted and was victorious. You don't have to accept the definition of how to do things, and you don't have to follow other people's choices and paths, OK? It is about your choices and your path. You fight your own war. You lay out your own path. You figure out what's right for you. You don't let external definition define how good you are internally. You fight your war. You let them fight theirs. Everybody has their own path."

10/22/2009 11:21:47 AM

Quote :

"Everybody has their own path"

and for some its right through poland.

10/22/2009 12:25:05 PM

^lullz

10/22/2009 4:18:13 PM