1/25/2010 10:26:03 PM

^
Is he giving a gang sign?

1/26/2010 2:08:09 AM

It might be a Terrorist Palm Wave

1/26/2010 2:38:50 AM

news break for you racists: this is a purely a working class and middle class tax initiative

because the low income minorities that HUR and the rest of you chucklefucks are so busy hating on here, well they don't pay income taxes anyhow, because their income is too low in the first place.

and i for one will be happy to receive the extra tax credit. thank you very much.

1/26/2010 3:58:47 AM

I like to shit all over the working class because one day I feel I'll be rich, even though that day will never come.

1/26/2010 8:45:07 AM

For the record, I'm not hating on poor people. Middle class people have just as many unintended children.

Quote :

"^Nah, I think people want to have children. While some people legitimately don't have access to birth control, a lot of people do but they choose not to use it...why do you think that is?"

*Choose not to* is not how I would describe how it usually happens. When the urge to fuck hits two people, they're not taking the time to legitimately think about the consequences. Why do you think the Plan B pill exists? If you can drive down to the drug store to buy a morning after pill then it is definitely within your power to drive to the drug store and buy some condoms. It's just not convenient.

Then you have the idiots that convince other idiots that condoms are stupid or make it not feel as good. Then you have the women who don't take their birth control pills regularly because it's too much work and OOPS. Then you have the men that assume that birth control is just the woman's responsibility. Then you have the crazies that think it's against their religion to use birth control. My grandmother had 8 children. I highly doubt she started out her marriage praying for 8 children (though since my dad was the youngest I'm glad she did. ).

The point I'm trying to convey here is that 99.9999% of the time that two people are fucking, it's not because they sat down and said "Let's make a baby." And thanks to the reasons above and more, there's a whole lot of OOPS going on.

1/26/2010 8:55:38 AM

^^It's not that hard to become rich. It takes savings, investment, and time. If you piss your money away, you'll be poor for your entire life. You can tell yourself that you were disadvantaged from the start, but it's not going to change anything. The government is out of money. They have no more money to give you; they have a stack of 14 trillion IOUs. If we implemented the changes you want, we'd be on an even faster track to economic destruction.

You can make fun of it all day and cry "bootstraps," but that's ultimately what it comes down to. You have the ability to learn a new profession. You have the ability to work and make money. Unfortunately, the government has made it so hard to create a business and employ workers that many people will never be able to earn and save enough to build wealth in this country. The youth are going to leave the United States because the opportunities, that were once so abundant here, have moved overseas. That's largely due to the left-liberal and right-liberal laws and regulations that have undermined the real economy, which has to be based on savings and production, not government handouts.

[Edited on January 26, 2010 at 9:02 AM. Reason : ]

1/26/2010 9:00:51 AM

Actually you pretty much have no chance of getting into the top quarter of the richest Americans unless you're born into wealth. The American Dream is a myth.

You realize you are in the bottom 80% of Americans who only own about 9% of the total wealth in the country, right?

1/26/2010 9:19:07 AM

Quote :

"Actually you pretty much have no chance of getting into the top quarter of the richest Americans unless you're born into wealth. The American Dream is a myth. You realize you are in the bottom 80% of Americans who only own about 9% of the total wealth in the country, right?"

The free market didn't kill the American Dream. Capitalism didn't kill it. Misguided government policies killed it, and now you want to mutilate it beyond recognition with more government mandates. The only reason the United States became what it was is because you could come here and succeed without an oppressive government imposing restrictions on you at every turn.

I don't need to make 50 million to consider myself rich. You're never going to have "wealth equality." If you try to implement a system of government that tries to force equality, you'll only succeed in destroying wealth. If I had 3 million in assets saved, I think I'd be pretty rich, but in comparison to the super rich, pretty poor. Bill Gates wasn't born into a super rich family. He had (stole?) a really good idea and ran with it, and ended up becoming super rich. The human race is not out of good ideas.

1/26/2010 9:34:21 AM

No, the reason it became what it is is because of fucking Reagonomics, deregulation, and lack of legislation that allowed 1% of the fucking country to control 90% of the wealth. You think you have a chance? Might as well give up now. Megacorps and Billionaires control this country. You aren't shit.

EDIT: hahah, yes. Use the example of one in three hundred million people to show how you can make it. You might as well play the lottery with those kinds of odds.

[Edited on January 26, 2010 at 9:38 AM. Reason : ]

1/26/2010 9:37:57 AM

Quote :

"No, the reason it became what it is is because of fucking Reagonomics, deregulation, and lack of legislation that allowed 1% of the fucking country to control 90% of the wealth. You think you have a chance? Might as well give up now. Megacorps and Billionaires control this country. You aren't shit."

Hahaha. Yes, lack of regulation and legislation "allowed" 1% of the country to control 90% of the wealth. Government is the savior, and corporations are evil. Until you understand that corporations and government have been in collusion with each other, you won't actually get to the root of the problem. Monopolies have succeeded because government has regulated and taxed the competition out of the market.

Regulations can be good when they protect individuals from fraud or some type of harm. When you place arbitrary caps on how much a company can make, or who they can hire, or where they can compete, you don't "control" the megacorps. You make them stronger.

1/26/2010 9:47:43 AM

Who just gave upwards of $2T of taxpayer money to megacorporations?

Oh yeah that would be the government.

Yet geniuses like God want to give the government more of our money and more power.

1/26/2010 10:15:19 AM

Quote :

"because the low income minorities that HUR and the rest of you chucklefucks are so busy hating on here,"

Do you lack reading comprehension skills, just trying to troll, or are defending your greedy claim to additional child tax credits.

I never targeted any demographic in my OP and in fact in some of my responses asserted examples of why I did not think
"middle income" families should not get this and that it does not necessarily improve the livlihood of children in such families.
Lets though step back and examine joe_schmoe's perspective on this issue. As a father in a warm loving family,
Schmoe would like nothing more than Obama's plan turned into action to support his liberal philosophy that in this case
equates to a direct financial benefit for him.

Congrats Joe with your increased child tax credit you can buy yourself a new Ralph Lauren Polo, get that sports package upgrade
on your next car, and/or put more down on your next house payment.

Meanwhile folks who are empty nesters or are responsibly waiting to have children get no benefit from Obama's plan to "help"
middle income families during these "struggling time." There is nothing wrong with having kids but this a choice you made.
The child card for deserving additional exemptions from taxes is over played.

Quote :

"You can tell yourself that you were disadvantaged from the start, but it's not going to change anything. The government is out of money. They have no more money to give you; they have a stack of 14 trillion IOUs. If we implemented the changes you want, we'd be on an even faster track to economic destruction. "

This too. I do not think this is the most "prudent" time to institute additional tax cuts and exemptions.

Quote :

"Government is the savior, and corporations are evil. Until you understand that corporations and government have been in collusion with each other, you won't actually get to the root of the problem. Monopolies have succeeded because government has regulated and taxed the competition out of the market. Regulations can be good when they protect individuals from fraud or some type of harm. When you place arbitrary caps on how much a company can make, or who they can hire, or where they can compete, you don't "control" the megacorps. You make them stronger. "

this is true but many TWWers lack the depth to realize this.

1/26/2010 10:16:11 AM

Quote :

"disco_stu: I'm just saying that child-bearing should not be considered a right de facto simply because it's a strong animal urge."

I think it's important for you to note that the drive to have children isn't just a biological animal urge. It is imposed on us by parents, friends, family, school, media, society pretty much all the time and practically from day one. You can't have so many factors urging people to procreate, and then turn around say, "But not you guys. You guys shouldn't have children because you're poor. Sure, we've presented it as the natural way of things for everybody else, but you poor folks need to just go work your menial jobs, come home to an empty apartment, and go to sleep at night happy and fulfilled with the knowledge that the middle class approves of your choices."

1/26/2010 4:01:48 PM

Quote :

"Actually you pretty much have no chance of getting into the top quarter of the richest Americans unless you're born into wealth. The American Dream is a myth."

You are joking right?

1/26/2010 4:04:22 PM

I think this is a non issue. the people who would have more kids because of a perceived tax break are probably the type of people who don't pay or file taxes.

I mean, really can you picture some crack addict with 7 kids filing a 1040? really?

1/26/2010 4:04:41 PM

Quote :

"I think it's important for you to note that the drive to have children isn't just a biological animal urge. It is imposed on us by parents, friends, family, school, media, society pretty much all the time and practically from day one. You can't have so many factors urging people to procreate, and then turn around say, "But not you guys. You guys shouldn't have children because you're poor. Sure, we've presented it as the natural way of things for everybody else, but you poor folks need to just go work your menial jobs, come home to an empty apartment, and go to sleep at night happy and fulfilled with the knowledge that the middle class approves of your choices." "

Biological urges and social urges are not excuses for personal behavior.

1/26/2010 4:09:02 PM

Quote :

"Actually you pretty much have no chance of getting into the top quarter of the richest Americans unless you're born into wealth. The American Dream is a myth"

"pretty much" is the key qualifier. there are always exceptions that the deregulate-everything demagogues like to parade around, but essentially this is true. class mobility only extends so far: the poor can aspire to be middle class, the middle class can aspire to be upper middle class but that's about the end of it.

there's a reason why CEO's today make almost 300 times the compensation of the average person working for them, when they only made about 20 times the amount just 50 years ago. and it's not because the CEO is inherently worth more as a person, or is even particularly more intelligent or clever.

it's due to the fact that in this country wealth perpetuates wealth, and conspires to create laws that enable them to concentrate more and more of it. only the few spectacularly and brilliantly lucky individuals who by combination of superhuman motivation and uncanny sense of timing rise from mailroom janitor to bazillionaire CEO.

the rest of us will essentially rise to the level of our parents, more or less, becuase our society and laws are designed to keep the classes largely in their own place.



[Edited on January 27, 2010 at 2:21 AM. Reason : ]

1/27/2010 2:19:50 AM

Quote :

"disco_stu: *Choose not to* is not how I would describe how it usually happens. When the urge to fuck hits two people, they're not taking the time to legitimately think about the consequences. Why do you think the Plan B pill exists? If you can drive down to the drug store to buy a morning after pill then it is definitely within your power to drive to the drug store and buy some condoms. It's just not convenient. Then you have the idiots that convince other idiots that condoms are stupid or make it not feel as good. Then you have the women who don't take their birth control pills regularly because it's too much work and OOPS. Then you have the men that assume that birth control is just the woman's responsibility. Then you have the crazies that think it's against their religion to use birth control. My grandmother had 8 children. I highly doubt she started out her marriage praying for 8 children (though since my dad was the youngest I'm glad she did. ). The point I'm trying to convey here is that 99.9999% of the time that two people are fucking, it's not because they sat down and said "Let's make a baby." And thanks to the reasons above and more, there's a whole lot of OOPS going on."

Do not include your grandmother in a discussion about today.

And consider the fact that all those OOPS may not be the OOPS the way we think they are. Back in the day, sure. But there are a lot of birth control measures available today...at every stage...way before hand, before hand, just before the technical end for one party (pulling out has some success rate), afterwards, a few months afterwards...with all these measures/some other changes, we've seen people knock their numbers down from 6+ babies to 2, but why still the 2? Could it be more than just a desire to fuck that's bringing on the 2 children? How come people manage to have sex all the time but only get pregnant with 2 children? If it was just about fucking, wouldn't it be the 8, 9, 16 babies people used to have?

1/27/2010 2:41:55 AM

I also oppose the child tax credit, but it has nothing to do with the people receiving it. As someone already pointed out, it's pretty much a policy of pandering. The government encourages the nuclear family, which in and of itself is fine, a stable 2 parent family is the best environment for child raising.

Problematically, a lot of those who will receive this additional credit are already paying zero or negative taxes (i.e. receiving more in credits and deductions than they paid in and as a result get more back than they put in in the first place). It's simply a tool to buy votes. Once the politicians can get the top 49% to pay all the taxes the bottom 51% will always vote for them. It's creeping more and more that way now. It's sitting at 60/40 at the moment and gets closer every year.

1/27/2010 3:15:46 AM

Quote :

"And consider the fact that all those OOPS may not be the OOPS the way we think they are. Back in the day, sure. But there are a lot of birth control measures available today...at every stage...way before hand, before hand, just before the technical end for one party (pulling out has some success rate), afterwards, a few months afterwards...with all these measures/some other changes, we've seen people knock their numbers down from 6+ babies to 2, but why still the 2? Could it be more than just a desire to fuck that's bringing on the 2 children? How come people manage to have sex all the time but only get pregnant with 2 children? If it was just about fucking, wouldn't it be the 8, 9, 16 babies people used to have?"

To be honest I'm going to chalk this one up to women's rights. Take a look at http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us+fertility+rate. The rate dropped precipitously in the 60s and 70s, just about the time women were entering the workforce en masse instead of sitting at home shitting out kids. You're right, they are generally more informed about birth control because they are generally more informed about their finances and managing their own healthcare.

Why the two? 2 is the average, which includes millions of women who have zero kids. There may be sociological reasons to have 2 kids (you want them to have sibling bonds or something), but plenty of people have more or less than 2 kids. It's not a default number of kids that people feel they need to have, and I'm still convinced that a majority of children are created not because the mother and father sat down and said "Let's have a baby".

1/27/2010 9:06:50 AM