So I didn't do to well my first time around...quit school for a couple years, joined the military, will resume back in school and plan on keeping my new GPA around the 3.0-3.5 range....will I have a problem?

4/10/2010 7:16:50 AM

No, although others may disagree. I think you'll be fine depending on the kind of job you would be looking for.

The reason I think GPA is useless is that people can get the same degree from two different schools and one be obviously more easy than the other. How is that fair? Paychecks and previous job experiences don't lie like the professor who gives everyone an A+.

4/10/2010 8:28:14 AM

Quote :

"didn't do to well... will I have a problem?"

yes.

4/10/2010 8:53:32 AM

typo, I assure you I do know the difference between 'to' and 'too'

4/10/2010 10:48:38 AM

nope. experience + better gpa makes that other shit irrelevant

Quote :

"I'ma go ahead and assert that a lot people with 4.0 GPAs have personality disorders and don't work well with others (and all that doesn't even come with a guarantee of intelligence, just studiousness)."

The common trait I notice is being really uptight and risk averse

[Edited on April 11, 2010 at 10:34 AM. Reason : .]

4/11/2010 10:32:37 AM

Quote :

"The common trait I notice is being really uptight and risk averse"

Isn't every sensible person risk averse?

4/11/2010 2:18:09 PM

buh? no. what world do you live in?

4/11/2010 4:17:17 PM

I graduated with a 2.x. When I sent resumes out with GPA listed, I can only assume it went to the deleted box. When I sent resumes with GPA not listed, I got interviews.

I got an internship my last semester in school, continued working there for several months after graduation, got laid off as the company when out of business. Four weeks later I had two job offers.

I've since changed jobs again, and am now working somewhere that has a 3.5 requirement for new grads.

In the interviews I've done (as the interviewer), if you make it to the interview stage, it is likely no longer an issue. We've always based the decision on how they did in the interview itself.

4/11/2010 9:27:08 PM

^ very true

i graduated under a 3, so i didnt list my GPA. the topic never even came up on the 4-5 interviews i went on before i landed my current job

4/12/2010 12:15:35 AM

I wouldn't let anyone tell you you can't get a good job with great pay and benefits with a less than stellar GPA.

I am living proof.

I'm not saying, "Hey, fuck around in college and their are zero consequences."

However, some posts on here would make it seem there is zero chance for hope.

That's complete bullshit.

4/12/2010 8:06:30 AM

There's also a non-zero chance that the middle schooler who doesn't pay attn in class is going to get signed by the NBA. But in all likelihood he's not gonna land that job is he

these threads are designed for slackers to reassure themselves.

4/12/2010 8:19:09 AM

Some people's responses ITT show that they can't handle the fact that their GPA wasn't the end-all be-all that they hoped for.

Oh, and the NBA analogy is dead on.

Prove you can do the job better than the guy with a high GPA, and the job is yours.

Definitely the case for me.

4/12/2010 9:51:01 AM

The whole point of college is to get a good GPA, so why go to college in the first place if GPA doesn't matter.

4/12/2010 10:36:26 AM

graduated around a 3.1, but I had relevant job experience via internships, do well in interviews, and the few technical questions I got asked in the interview I nailed. Got a job I enjoy at an outstanding company with great pay and I've been here about 3 years.

With that being said, having a lower GPA can certainly affect you getting in the door for an interview (esp in times like this when the competition gets super tough), but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't land a great job.

And despite what Solinari saystrolls, having a high GPA in and of itself isnt important in anyone's field. What he really means to say is that having intelligence and a great work ethic is important in almost any field and he equates that with a high GPA. Certainly not totally unreasonable and a lot of places do that, but there is more to it than that and there isnt a hard and fast black and white cut-off line when it comes to GPAs.

Quote :

"The whole point of college is to get a good GPA, so why go to college in the first place if GPA doesn't matter."

/facepalm

The whole point of college is to get a solid foundation in a field that you plan to build a career in. Yes, if you are trying hard to do that and doing the work, and understanding the concepts then a good GPA will often come along with that but it should be a result of the drive to learn the material, not the goal.

[Edited on April 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM. Reason : ]

4/12/2010 10:37:00 AM

i've never said that a high gpa was the answer in and of itself.

All I have done in this thread is put the lie to the attempted claims that a high GPA isn't all that important at all.

It is hugely important, and even more important during these tough economic times.

4/12/2010 10:55:32 AM

I don't know you dude, but all of your responses ITT rate pretty high on the cockhead scale.

Maybe that cockhead personality trait will end up getting you replaced by someone with a slightly lower GPA.

People really don't like to work with cockheads.

4/12/2010 11:11:16 AM

sure, makes total sense

4/12/2010 11:27:17 AM

Yes it does.

Good game, though.

4/12/2010 11:36:46 AM

The whole point of college is to get a solid foundation in a field that you plan to build a career in. Yes, if you are trying hard to do that and doing the work, and understanding the concepts then a good GPA will often come along with that but it should be a result of the drive to learn the material, not the goal.

I feel that GPA is the goal and everything else is just what comes with it. People are just gonna look at GPA not if you have a foundation or concepts.

[Edited on April 12, 2010 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

4/12/2010 7:49:46 PM

once you get the interview, GPA doesn't mean much.


but how are ya gonna get the interview?

4/12/2010 8:32:47 PM

Is that a rhetorical question?

4/12/2010 8:47:19 PM

^^^ didnt put my GPA on my resume coming out of school. Got interviews, answered fundamental questions in the interview, got the job. That also applies to the other companies I applied to, interviewed with, and didnt accept the job offer as well. Though, as pointed out before in this thread, it might be a little different now that things are down.

Of course my experience is also based off of the only time I have had to look for a full time post-graduation job which was over a 4 month period 3 years ago.

That being said, if you have a great GPA, I am certainly not saying to leave it off. I just didn't feel the need to put my 3.1 on. It got asked in the interviews of course, but by the time I was in for an interview a 3.1 wasnt going to preclude me from getting the job.

I also don't plan to include my GPA on any future resumes if I am ever forced to look for a new job. At this point, 3 years of relevant post-graduation job experience trumps anything a GPA could tell you.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 8:57 AM. Reason : ]

4/13/2010 8:45:49 AM

i think every self made millionaire i know barely made it through school

..just sayin

4/13/2010 10:39:40 AM

NBA stories ITT


Clearly the reason that they succeeded was due to their low gpa.

4/13/2010 10:44:47 AM

Clearly that was my point.

4/13/2010 10:59:35 AM

Quote :

"I feel that GPA is the goal and everything else is just what comes with it. People are just gonna look at GPA not if you have a foundation or concepts. "

You'll be in for a rude awakening with that attitude. I'm not saying that you shouldn't strive for the best grades possible, but if that's your only mark of success then you'll be way behind the curve compared with your peers.

If i'm looking at your resume with that 4.0 GPA in a 36pt font, and a lot of whitespace, I can pretty much guarantee that your resume is going in the recycling bin.

Make the best grades you possibly can, but not at the expense of all non-academic experiences during your time in college. If you have a 4.0, leadership experience, work experience, group involvement, etc., you'll have no problems doing anything you want to do. If you spend all of your time in DH Hill for 4 years and the 4.0 GPA is the only tangible result of your 4 years in college, your options are pretty much limited to grad school.

4/13/2010 12:59:08 PM

you guys make up these stories about what it takes to get a 4.0 gpa as a way to console yourselves.

the truth is, people with 4.0 gpas are much more likely to have co-op experience and extra-curricular activities than not.


but you take the 1/100000 slacker who excelled in business and the 1/100000 loner nerd with a 4.0 to create an artificial belief system that justifies bad grades.

gg.

4/13/2010 1:08:48 PM

i feel we are probably arguing over minute details ITT.

now, you have yet to put a number to the "bad gpa" and "bad grades" so I'd like to see what you consider good vs bad grades. It could be the whole time that you are arguing a "bad gpa" is someone with below a 3.0 at which point I can somewhat agree that, while GPA is not the only factor, a GPA starting with a 2 does hurt while nearly anything starting with a 3 from a decent school holds about the same weight to me. (I'm not responsible for hiring anyone as an engineer, but I am involved in college recruitment and going to career fairs for my company.) Now, if you are considering a bad GPA to be anything below a 3.5 or 3.25 or something, then I'd have to say that imo you put too much stress on a GPA.

Obviously every person and every company has their own ideals and list of what they want in a candidate though.

And theres no making anything up to console myself. I know what it took to get a great GPA. It took time, and I was very conscious of that and knowingly compromised with myself and sacrificed getting the best grades that I was capable of to allow myself to pursue other things during my time at college. I could have definitely gotten a higher GPA in college without a doubt. I had conflicting interests of wanting to put a lot of time and energy into music (recording, playing shows, attending shows etc.) and just set a goal for myself that I wanted to keep my GPA above a 3.0 and as long as I wasn't slipping on that, I would allow myself to keep putting the majority of my time into music. A lot of that meant keeping up with learning the fundamentals of the material on my own for tests but missing a lot of HW assignments etc.

Graduating with a 3.1 and pursuing a passion was more important *to me* than graduating with a 3.75 and not pursuing music and I would never change that decision looking back.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 3:10 PM. Reason : ]

4/13/2010 2:59:52 PM

That's fine, but this thread is titled "GPA and Job" not "GPA and Life"

4/13/2010 5:50:42 PM

1) you didnt answer my question about what you consider a "bad GPA"
2) I understand that, but I only mention that because you have stated across several posts that a "bad GPA" is a direct indicator of:

-poor work ethic
-lack of acuity
-lack of smarts
-lack of a studious attitude
-one being a slacker

Just pointing out that there are plenty of reasons someone doesnt have a 4.0 besides the fact that they are not smart or don't have a good work ethic or lack acuity.

Now to tie that in to jobs...does the company you are applying for know that? No they don't. So I guess its up to the individual to decide what GPA they could realistically obtain vs what GPA they are comfortable graduating with and putting on your resume if you are going to. For me that was >3.0.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/13/2010 6:07:21 PM

Quote :

"now, you have yet to put a number to the "bad gpa" and "bad grades" so I'd like to see what you consider good vs bad grades. It could be the whole time that you are arguing a "bad gpa" is someone with below a 3.0 at which point I can somewhat agree that, while GPA is not the only factor, a GPA starting with a 2 does hurt while nearly anything starting with a 3 from a decent school holds about the same weight to me. (I'm not responsible for hiring anyone as an engineer, but I am involved in college recruitment and going to career fairs for my company.) Now, if you are considering a bad GPA to be anything below a 3.5 or 3.25 or something, then I'd have to say that imo you put too much stress on a GPA."

The answer to this question turns entirely on the type of job that is being sought. I will go further and say that students who are not driven to succeed, who do not have a high gpa, probably will not be seeking out too many of those jobs that need a high gpa. Therefore, it is understandable that they would reach the conclusion that a high gpa was not necessary.

4/13/2010 9:21:45 PM

I didn't have the greatest GPA coming out of college. I also had to work while I was in school to help pay for my tuition. I also wanted to have some semblance of a social life too.

I think employers look at GPA as a good sign of a person's work ethic. I also think that anybody with a GPA of at least a 3.0 shows an employer that they are intelligent enough. Yeah, a 4.0 candidate might be a genius, but a 3.0 is capable, at least for engineering.

The key to any good candidate lies in the intangibles. A good GPA will get you in the door, but being smart doesn't get you a job. A less than stellar GPA is only acceptable when the intangibles make up for it.

Employers probably imply that a resume without a GPA from a recent grad means that their GPA wasn't all that great. Obviously something else had to stand out for that person to be considered. Everyone is aware of the "rules" to abide by when developing a resume, to be sure to list your GPA if it was a good one, and to omit it if it wasn't. There aren't too many people that would deviate from these standards.

I really believe that employers are looking for a well-rounded person. A smart person, with people skills, able to communicate and use proper English, and possessing competencies and skills that they won't have to already teach to someone. They also have to feel confident that the person won't embarrass the company through conduct outside of work. That's why the interview will ultimately decide who the best candidate is, since most of these skills can be determined through the process.

In my opinion, most 4.0 individuals are lacking in one of these categories. I also believe that 4.0s that can do it all probably had no problem getting a job out of college, and they would easily have an upper hand compared to other candidates when looking for a job. A 4.0 that lacks social skills (I'm looking at you, Comp Sci guys) probably have a limited ceiling. A 3.0 that can at least communicate and is pretty smart may have a higher ceiling, which could be more favorable to employers. The 4.0s without social skills are still absolutely vital to the success of some companies, but I think most would agree that they wouldn't want to have an entire unit or work group comprised of them in large numbers.

When it's all said and done, if you don't have a great GPA coming out of college, you better be able to exemplify the intangibles when the opportunity comes.

4/13/2010 9:44:39 PM

Quote :

"the truth is, people with 4.0 gpas are much more likely to have co-op experience and extra-curricular activities than not."

Link plz. I'm not saying this is true or false, I'm saying prove this.

4/13/2010 9:57:25 PM

Quote :

"I also think that anybody with a GPA of at least a 3.0 shows an employer that they are intelligent enough. Yeah, a 4.0 candidate might be a genius, but a 3.0 is capable, at least for engineering. "

definitely. thats exactly how I feel when I am working at a career fair. I mean, we definitely need people with attention to detail who are going 100% (ie I am currently working on a strictly audited nuclear project and I am directly involved in the process, so it easily stands out if you are just "mailing it in"), but as long as the GPA is decent, there is a lot more we are looking for than good grades.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 10:18 PM. Reason : ]

4/13/2010 10:12:00 PM

I mean, was anyone posting in this thread a 4.0, or are we just speculating here?

4/14/2010 12:26:31 AM

dude... this is TWW

do you really think anyone has a 4.0 on this site?

4/14/2010 11:21:30 AM

I did. It wasn't that difficult.

[Edited on April 14, 2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

4/14/2010 12:26:17 PM

in math and physics, too? wow, good job!

4/14/2010 1:55:51 PM

I see I need to work harder to troll this thread.

I can say that I have worked at one medium-sized company where the CEO told me that for technical jobs, they screen for a 3.75 GPA minimum. I still think that was a bit silly to have that high of a standard, but it was a good job and a great company to work for. Also, when I was consulting at McKinsey, it would have taken a LOT of exceptional items on someone's resume for us to bring in someone under a 3.5 for an interview.

I feel like my GPA did bring some extra opportunities my way. I certainly didn't get any of my jobs or grad school offers because of the 4.0, but it would be silly to think it didn't contribute.

4/14/2010 2:03:01 PM

^ that's exactly what I'm trying to say... sure, you can land a mediocre job with no problem no matter what your gpa is, but for those highly competitive jobs, a GPA really does matter

4/14/2010 2:11:33 PM

way to backpedal

Quote :

"perhaps you guys are in fields that don't require very smart people... I can see then that GPA wouldn't predict success very accurately."

4/14/2010 3:16:51 PM

^^ so... who decides what is a mediocre job? this is all subjective, and the GPA is important only to an employer that asks for it. get out in the "real world," and it's all but forgotten.

4/14/2010 3:53:22 PM

GPA is overrated

I was mid 2's and look at me now

4/14/2010 4:20:38 PM

Quote :

"sure, you can land a mediocre job with no problem no matter what your gpa is, but for those highly competitive jobs, a GPA really does matter"

Now this is getting ridiculous. Start providing your sources for these statements or I'm calling out your BS for these overgeneralized and unsubstantiated statements. Yes, excuse the IR Serious Cat on the intrawebs, but folks come to Study Hall to get legitimate information, not this crap. Source it or shut it.

4/14/2010 8:15:28 PM

All other factors being equal, an employer is more likely to choose the candidate with stellar grades

http://www.careerbuilder.com/Article/CB-469-Getting-Hired-Does-Your-GPA-Really-Matter/

"As a former recruiter, I don't even glance at their cover letters or work experience or clubs and activities. I just look at the GPA" (implying only the GPA matters - absolutely no excuses and nothing else will make up for a low GPA. not even work experience)

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/do-everyone-with-a-35-gpa-target-school-really-all-are-guaranteed-interviews-are-all-recruite

Quote :

""sure, you can land a mediocre job with no problem no matter what your gpa is, but for those highly competitive jobs, a GPA really does matter""

Your GPA will most likely come into play if you're applying to the "elite, highest-paying, most selective" positions, Queen-Hubert says. Such industries might include business services, investment banking, consulting, technology, engineering, accounting or health care.

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-1577-College-Internships-First-Jobs-Does-Your-GPA-Matter-to-Employers/

When you’re graduating nowadays, you may be competing with 100,000 applicants (undergraduate, graduate students, and experienced unemployed professionals) nationwide for a single job opening. So the questions will be “How am I going to differentiate myself among the crowd to get hired?” I would say that work experience is no longer enough, since there are many of unemployed experienced job applicants are hunting for jobs. Graduating from a reputable universities may give you an edge, but a 4.0 G.P.A certainly distinguish your resume among the crowd especially if combined with some related work experience and related academic background.

Recently I conduct interviews with many top executives enrolled in the Executive MBA programs at my school. Almost all of these executives agree on one point, A student with a 4.0 G.P.A shows courage, hard-work ethics and intelligence; these attributes are what we’re essentially looking for when hiring new employees.

http://howtogeta40.clicknsmart.com/2009/why-does-a-40-gpa-matter/

[Edited on April 14, 2010 at 9:07 PM. Reason : ]

4/14/2010 8:38:35 PM

Quote :

"Also I read that GPA is very important right after you graduate because you are not likely to have much experience anyway"

"not likely" makes it seem like it's a matter of chance. The only one who has control of whether you have work experience or not is you. But you're probably right about one thing -- GPA is most important right after you graduate, and other than grad school, no one's looking at it again.

Speaking from the perspective of a manager who hires engineers, I can tell you that for my organization, GPA is of secondary importance to relevant work experience.

Cheating and grade inflation are major issues that water down the usefulness of GPA as the sole indicator of success in the workplace.

Obviously different companies will have different policies, and many do still have an absolute threshold for GPA.

In this economy, we're not hiring as many new college grads as we did 3 years ago. So GPA aside, if you didn't co-op, you're extremely unlikely to get an interview.

4/14/2010 9:33:16 PM

Anybody can have work experience, whether they have low or high GPA, but not many people can get 4.0s, you need to be gifted to do that, that is why it is more important and separates you from the rest.

Also I agree with one of the previous posters that people with higher GPA are more likely to have work experiences than not. People with higher GPAs obviously work harder, so they are more likely to be better in other areas. I don't see why so many think people with 4.0s can't be good at other things. All people I've seen that are 4.0 have been good at everything, GPA, experience, extra curricular, etc.

4/14/2010 10:26:35 PM

Keep in mind that you're doing a fair amount of cherry-picking from those articles you cite. Being similarly selective from the very same links you used:

Quote :

"The majority of employers (62 percent) don't have a minimum GPA requirement for hiring college graduates, according to CareerBuilder.com's "College Job Forecast 2008.""

Quote :

"Employers understand that students have different circumstances. Employers do take a university's reputation into consideration, but they also understand working to pay your way through school, extracurricular involvement and extenuating circumstances can lower your academic marks. Having relevant experience like internships is key to getting ahead in today's cutthroat job market. Luckily, a superior GPA from a top-ranked university isn't required to get an internship, according to the Princeton Review. Internship coordinators look for candidates with a go-getter attitude, something that can be expressed in a cover letter and interview ? not a resume or transcript."

There is no hard and fast rule; in general, the importance of the GPA varies widely both between and within companies. But there are, comparatively, very few circumstances in which a higher GPA (all else equal) hurts your case.

My general experience has been that your quote that "Your GPA will most likely come into play if you're applying to the 'elite, highest-paying, most selective' positions" is fairly accurate. I say this having had actual experience interviewing for, working in, and then recruiting for those types of jobs, and knowing a lot of people who also work in those circles.

If you're ambitious and are aiming for the top consulting, private equity, or i-banking firms, then GPA (AND everything else) is all that much more important because you're already at a big disadvantage by virtue of being at NC State. This is a sad but true reality; those firms don't recruit at NCSU because they don't see it as being worth their time and effort, and as such they don't generally have employees who are invested in giving apps from NCSU special attention or going to bat for a candidate from NCSU when deciding who to interview. There's only one partner at McKinsey who went to NC State, and *he* laughed when I suggested putting some resources towards recruiting there.

That said, you should also keep in mind what Optimum said: "who decides what is a mediocre job?" There are enough firms out there that you can find plenty who don't rely on GPAs for screening purposes, and a lot of those would probably be a great fit.

4/14/2010 11:02:53 PM

Quote :

"People with higher GPAs obviously work harder, so they are more likely to be better in other areas."

... obviously.

4/15/2010 6:33:51 AM

basically, gz390, I've been on this site for close to 10 years now and one thing you have to understand is that there is a very strong preference among the users of this site for the belief that gpa is not important.

Look guys, I don't see why we can't all admit the obvious, which is what I've been saying since page #1... For a mediocre job, gpa isn't that important. For a highly competitive job, GPA is huge.

If you have set the bar low for yourself and for your career aspirations, you will not be disappointed.

4/15/2010 7:56:25 AM