Quote :

" Unless I'm in Arizona, since I would have to carry that shit around all the time now. Which is why the law sucks."

its always been the law that if you are an alien in the US you have to carry your paperwork. this does not change it.

if you are in another country, and are smart, you would do the same.

5/17/2010 9:02:46 PM

^ The risk of it getting lost or stolen is greater than being randomly stopped by cop and asked for it.

Again, unless you are brown and in Arizona.

5/17/2010 9:17:55 PM

you cant be randomly stopped and asked. you can only be asked if during the course of a normal investigation (traffic stop, etc...) and the officer has reasonable suspicion that you are illegal.

sounds like you and Eric Holder have a lot in common. you should read it before you talk junk about it.

5/17/2010 9:24:14 PM

Ok well then the risk of it getting lost or stolen is greater than being asked during the course of a normal investigation (traffic stop, etc...) and the officer has reasonable suspicion that you are illegal.

5/17/2010 9:27:06 PM

you are making a lot of sense.

5/17/2010 9:33:24 PM

Quote :

"reasonable suspicion"

explain. please. i'm begging you. what type of behavior is exclusive to illegal immigrants? what qualifies as "reasonable suspicion." i really wish the stuffy cunts who hide behind the term "reasonable suspicion" would come out and just fucking say, "hey brownies, show your papers"

5/17/2010 10:36:58 PM

i can give three examples off the top of my head,

-no drivers license or insurance
-maybe some in the car took off running when it was pulled over and stopped
-inability to speak english

again, if they are legal, they are supposed to carry around their information anyway for the purpose of being able to identify themselves.

why dont you want our nation's laws and borders enforced? again, this is standard shit everywhere else in the world. I welcome all immigrants to this country provided they do it the right way. if they dont, I have very little sympathy for their inconveniences.

5/18/2010 8:02:53 AM

Quote :

"you cant be randomly stopped and asked. you can only be asked if during the course of a normal investigation (traffic stop, etc...) and the officer has reasonable suspicion that you are illegal. sounds like you and Eric Holder have a lot in common. you should read it before you talk junk about it."

Really? You think Eric holder didn't rad it? lol.

FYI, the law ALREADY was that you can be asked in the course of a normal investigation. This law changes it so that reasonable suspicion can start by looking at the person's skin. That's all.

You're an idiot.

5/18/2010 8:35:35 AM

Uh, he didn't and admitted so much last week in front of Congress. There were several stories about it.

But thanks for playing. Your contribution here has been invaluable, as always.

5/18/2010 8:50:23 AM

good lord you're an idiot

5/18/2010 1:59:38 PM

dur dur dur

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0

are you ready to admit that you have also, not read the law? are you also ready to admit that it basically takes a federal law and makes it a state law?

since the federal law already exists, the debate should be in the differences. what are they?

or, you could just blindly insult the person with a differing opinion from you because you have NOTHING of substance to add instead of trying to make a counter point.

5/18/2010 2:13:40 PM

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

here is a copy for you



[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2010 2:21:16 PM

haha the Attorney General of the United States has concerns about the Arizona immigration law, not based on the actual law itself, but based on what he's read in newspapers and seen on television

Also, if 50% of hispanics are in favor of the law, are the other 50% of hispanics racist against brown people?

5/18/2010 2:51:45 PM

the stupid Arizona Immigration Law adds nothing to what is already existing. the left is just pretending like its some whole new concept. they are pulling your strings, making you dance like puppets.

5/18/2010 3:00:12 PM

apparently Janet Napolitano also cannot be bothered with reading the immigration law, but certainly can criticize it.

OMG FAUX KNEWS!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/18/napolitano-admits-read-arizona-immigration-law/

5/18/2010 3:39:20 PM

I know Holder's read it, but that isn't what's important. You're just lying to yourself if you think that law didn't "add anything."

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 4:32 PM. Reason : Meh, probably not lying to yourself; probably just stupid.]

5/18/2010 4:20:28 PM

two questions for you, all knowing terpball

since you are so against this racist rag of legislation, you should have no problems finding the answers

1. What power does an Arizona law enforcement official have under the new Arizona law that a federal law enforcement official in Arizona did not already have?

2. What type of identification does a non-citizen have to carry in Arizona under the new Arizona law that the very same non-citizen did not already have to carry under the already existing federal law?

5/18/2010 5:08:46 PM

Quote :

"2. What type of identification does a non-citizen have to carry in Arizona under the new Arizona law that the very same non-citizen did not already have to carry under the already existing federal law?"

I'll answer that one for him. He/She has to wear a patch on their clothing indicating their illegal immigration status. Thats what FauxNews told me anyway.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2010 5:16:27 PM

clearly, having to have identification = living in Hitler's Nazi Germany

5/18/2010 5:21:07 PM

^its got to start some where

(I'm just trolling ITT, I don't oppose or support this new law)

5/18/2010 5:23:25 PM

Quote :

"-no drivers license or insurance -maybe some in the car took off running when it was pulled over and stopped -inability to speak english"

none of these are exclusive to illegal immigrants. not one.

-if a white person (or black, or asian, for that matter) is pulled over and does not have a drivers license, they'll get a ticket. that's about it. the same is not true for anyone appearing to be hispanic.

-if someone takes off, cops should assume they are illegal? that's stupid. anyone with priors or some warrant to their name could take off.

-aside from the fact that english is not the official language of the united states, this would only apply to brown people. if a car full of french-canadians is pulled over, i highly doubt they'll be interrogated over suspicion of the language that they are using in their own car.

5/18/2010 7:23:53 PM

Cops: Arizona's anti-illegal immigration law mandates 'racial profiling'
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/05/18/2010-05-18_police_arizonas_antiillegal_immigration_law_mandates_racial_profiling.html

5/18/2010 7:27:28 PM

^sounds like the cops' perspective is basically "we don't want to do the feds' jobs for them"

5/18/2010 7:32:48 PM

Quote :

" -if a white person (or black, or asian, for that matter) is pulled over and does not have a drivers license, they'll get a ticket. that's about it. the same is not true for anyone appearing to be hispanic. -if someone takes off, cops should assume they are illegal? that's stupid. anyone with priors or some warrant to their name could take off. -aside from the fact that english is not the official language of the united states, this would only apply to brown people. if a car full of french-canadians is pulled over, i highly doubt they'll be interrogated over suspicion of the language that they are using in their own car."

1. it would be true for the hispanic person if they are a citizen or a legal alien and have their visa

2. if you run from the cops, you are going to be chased no matter what color you are, as you said...so maybe not a great example on my end

3. language barrier would be a perfect suspicion and could be equally applied to all colors and nationalities...if you are a citizen here you are likely going to know some English...if you dont know English you are likely a visitor and should have your paperwork


so again, whats the problem?

5/18/2010 9:30:50 PM

1) no, it would not be the same. the hispanic person has the burden of responsibility to prove his/her legal status, while nobody else has that same responsibility. that's profiling. also, it would be hard for a hispanic person to prove their legal status if they were born in the US. they wouldn't have their green cards because they would have never been issued one.

2)this was a bad example from the get-go, so i'll leave it alone

3) there are enclaves in many cities where people don't speak english (maybe not so much in arizona, but still). that doesn't make them illegal. and this isn't a strong argument to begin with. if the entire fear of illegals is that they don't speak english, then its a sad law. and you can't advocate profiling based on language when there is no official language to begin with.

5/18/2010 11:12:12 PM

Quote :

"1. What power does an Arizona law enforcement official have under the new Arizona law that a federal law enforcement official in Arizona did not already have?"

For RS to "legally" start by looking at the color of someone's skin, hearing someone's accent, etc. This is a violation of the 14th amendment, and TITLE VI, etc..

5/19/2010 8:14:14 AM

Quote :

"For RS to "legally" start by looking at the color of someone's skin, hearing someone's accent, etc. This is a violation of the 14th amendment, and TITLE VI, etc.."

again, where is in this in the law and where is it different from the already existing Federal law?

it clearly states that "during the course of a legal investigation." if a cop is not following that, he or she should be dealt with, so dont give me the "you know it will happen" BS.

5/19/2010 8:19:12 AM

Quote :

"1) no, it would not be the same. the hispanic person has the burden of responsibility to prove his/her legal status, while nobody else has that same responsibility. that's profiling. also, it would be hard for a hispanic person to prove their legal status if they were born in the US. they wouldn't have their green cards because they would have never been issued one. 2)this was a bad example from the get-go, so i'll leave it alone 3) there are enclaves in many cities where people don't speak english (maybe not so much in arizona, but still). that doesn't make them illegal. and this isn't a strong argument to begin with. if the entire fear of illegals is that they don't speak english, then its a sad law. and you can't advocate profiling based on language when there is no official language to begin with."

1. WTF are you talking about? a hispanic alien ALREADY has to prove their right to be here by Federal Law. a hispanic citizen will have a driver's license, credit card and a number of other forms of identification in their wallet just like the rest of us. in a state with a large legal hispanic population I am sure this scenario has been played out before. how do the rest of us identify ourselves? we have no green card. it isnt complicated.

now if a cop is sitting in a Wal-Mart parking lot, forcing brown people to show ID, that is another issue and is illegal.

2. fine...although if a cop pulls a van load of people over and the back empties out in all directions we all have a pretty good idea that some law is/has been broken...immigrants or not. reasonable suspicion.

3. if a person speaks ZERO english and cannot understand basic commands and questions it is 99% likely they are not a citizen. they are likely a vistor...legal or illegal. it is called 'reasonable suspicion.' it is not 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' dont get the two confused. if that person is a citizen, it will be discovered relatively quickly although they will probably suffer some minor inconvenience which is more due to the fact that they dont speak the language than a 'racist' police officer.



there are bad eggs. there are bad officers who will abuse this, just like bad officers abuse laws today. they should be swiftly dealt with. the fact remains that we have to secure the borders. if you have an alternate solution, by all means let us hear it. the citizens of that state have spoken and this is their solution.

5/19/2010 8:29:02 AM

^^ The law, as a whole, allows the legal investigation with the RS that can begin with looking at or hearing somebody. This "suspicion" is up to the full discretion of the COPS, so the COPS can allow race or ethnicity to raise their RS to the point where an investigation will start. The law just says that race or ethnicity can't be 100% of the reason, but it can be 99.9% of the reason. It's so fucking obvious, but you're going to defend it until you die because you're a dense bigot douchebag.

5/19/2010 8:41:35 AM

there it is! again with the name calling and again with the lack of any reference to any text.

defeat is a stinky cologne terpball and the racism bullshit is fucking weak.

5/19/2010 10:06:12 AM

Quote :

"a hispanic citizen will have a driver's license, credit card and a number of other forms of identification in their wallet just like the rest of us."

it has already been discussed that drivers license is not proof of citizenship. and.. a credit card?

[Edited on May 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason : do you always carry your passport? i don't.]

5/19/2010 11:38:24 AM

just saying that if someone produces a valid ID, then has other paperwork on them, whether it be a credit card, student ID, library card, whatever...and the names and info match, it is likely they arent going to have much problem.

I do see your point though and it is a good one. if a driver's license can be had without citizenship or legal immigrant status it is faulty. maybe illegals should not be issued driver's licenses?

I always have my license on me and 90% of the time I also have proof of insurance, credit cards, and my voter registration...but not my passport.

[Edited on May 19, 2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/19/2010 12:08:24 PM

Quote :

"Arizona Official Threatens to Cut Off Los Angeles Power as Payback for Boycott"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/19/arizona-official-threatens-cut-los-angeles-power-payback-boycott/

HAHA good stuff

5/19/2010 12:28:18 PM

wow, he's willing to cripple the own power plants within his state. genius.

some other power plant in another state would be more than happy to provide to LA (and they'd probably pick up the tab for re-routing the grid, too)

[Edited on May 19, 2010 at 1:10 PM. Reason : ]

5/19/2010 1:04:12 PM