People can come up with all kinds of excuses, but I don't think you should be allowed to be a part of society after killing 4 people.

Quote :

"I'm simply wondering who you're going to blame if/when he kills again, which the odds say he will."

This guy seems to be a dirtbag anyway:

Quote :

"After it became known that Hayes was collecting a disability check while housed at Dix"

Quote :

"Hayes has never once apologized to her for what he did, she said."

5/18/2010 12:59:03 PM

oh ok. paranoid schizophrenia is an excuse not an illness. k thanks

5/18/2010 1:06:03 PM

Quote :

"Michael C. Hayes, 46, was found not guilty by reason of insanity on four murder charges by a Forsyth County jury in 1989."

Quote :

"that he has shown no signs of psychotic behavior or been prescribed antipsychotic drugs since 1989."

I find it very hard to believe this guy was cured of his mental illness in less than a year.

5/18/2010 1:08:31 PM

i agree with you. it does seem weird. maybe the psychologists and psychiatrists screwed up or maybe Hayes just plain fooled them.

however, i disagree with feeling the need to blame someone in situations like this. i equate serial killers/rapists that have mental disorders to natural disasters in that they are tragedies and not evil/criminal situations. supplying people with mental disorders with guns or ignoring their disease does seem criminal IMO.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 1:17 PM. Reason : PS GO COWBOYS!!!!]

5/18/2010 1:16:24 PM

ugh, dont you know natural disasters are god's way of punishing the gays??

5/18/2010 1:26:58 PM

Quote :

"Is he no longer a paranoid schizophrenic? Seems like schizo or not, if he hears voices in his head telling him to kill, we might not want to put him back out on the streets"

Quote :

"I find it very hard to believe this guy was cured of his mental illness in less than a year."

You two both have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

5/18/2010 1:37:43 PM

Quote :

"People can come up with all kinds of excuses, but I don't think you should be allowed to be a part of society after killing 4 people. "

Ultimately though, if he was a danger to society, he should have been found guilty and locked up for life. I for one have never liked the not guilty by insanity defense, but if we as a society are going to allow it then we need to abide by it as well. You don't get to keep someone locked up for life just because you didn't have the power or the guts to do it when you sentenced them the first time.

5/18/2010 1:39:11 PM

God knows this guy personally, they go to the same church

5/18/2010 1:39:57 PM

Innocent until proven guilty.

5/18/2010 1:40:13 PM

getting drunk and high and shooting 9 people and killing 4 of them = getting drunk and high and shooting 9 people and killing 4 of them

5/18/2010 1:41:48 PM

I don't know exactly what is laid out in the case managers duties...but if I had to guess he's not going to be there holding this guys hand, mixing his pills in with his applesauce before he says "open up, the airplane is coming in for landing." He's probably not going to be the angel on his shoulder telling him drugs and alcohol are bad. I wasnt aware the only way to get a gun was by perfectly legal means with adequate background checks and becoming registered.

The guy gets to leave Dix to work and obviously had the freedoms to have a girlfriend and kids. Seems like a pretty decent life for someone that gunned down 4 people. But thats just not good enough, he deserves all the liberties we can give him..hell, the wing of a charity in his honor for battling this disease so valiantly.

Atleast we know who to blame if and when this guys goes on a rampage again. The case manager for not doing his job, and the the person that sold him the gun.

5/18/2010 1:41:52 PM

"Danger to society" does not equal criminal. hurricanes, floods, nuclear reactors, oil rigs, global warming and genetically altered foods all pose a danger to society as well.

5/18/2010 1:43:24 PM

the mental illness should have simply saved him from the needle and given him life (whether it be in a mental institution, or prison).

5/18/2010 1:45:56 PM

Is it his fault he developed paranoid schizophrenia?

5/18/2010 1:49:30 PM

^ Is it those 4 peoples fault that he killed? Or their families?

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2010 1:50:36 PM

why does it HAVE to be someone's fault?

5/18/2010 1:53:36 PM

becuase someone pulled the trigger multiple times and killed 4 innocent people

5/18/2010 1:55:46 PM

when a hunter accidentally shoots another hunter or a kid playing with a gun accidentally shoots another kid do you say to fry them or lock them away forever? sure there is some blame to go around and some negligence is involved, but it's a tragedy and not a criminal/evil act

5/18/2010 2:00:13 PM

Quote :

"^ Is it those 4 peoples fault that he killed? Or their families?"

No, where did I indicate that?

Quote :

"becuase someone pulled the trigger multiple times and killed 4 innocent people"

Why does it HAVE to be someone's fault?

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 2:02 PM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 2:01:44 PM

Quote :

"Why does it HAVE to be someone's fault?"

Before anyone blamed anyone ITT, you said it was the government's fault

I then asked whose fault it would be if/when he killed again, and you just kept ducking the question

Quote :

"when a hunter accidentally shoots another hunter or a kid playing with a gun accidentally shoots another kid do you say to fry them or lock them away forever? "

I think there is a pretty big difference in an accidental shooting, and going on a drug and alcohol fueled shooting spree

5/18/2010 2:03:49 PM

I said that if anyone is to blame, it's the government for not providing adequate mental health.

Try to think beyond your nose here about why crime, poverty, and mental illness appear in society in the first place.

5/18/2010 2:07:19 PM

So basically, because society isn't perfect, you're willing to give the perpetrator of a multiple homicide a complete free pass on killing 4 innocent people?

If you showed 1/10 the compassion in this thread for the victim's families that you did for the killer, you probably wouldn't be viewed as someone so completely out of touch with reality

5/18/2010 2:08:34 PM

It might just be nice if there was a shred of retribution involved here. But thats ok, he had a mental disease, no need for that.

If i were to ever kill 4 people I could only hope that I could lay up in a goverment facility, leave when I see fit, collect a check and bang my girlfriend.

5/18/2010 2:08:39 PM

^^ and i started the thread by saying the existence of guns were to blame but i kinda got ignored

^ if you had a severe mental illness and killed 4 people during a psychotic break, i'm sure you would feel terrible about it and be very thankful that you could do all of those things and weren't in fact locked up forever

5/18/2010 2:11:24 PM

its amazing to me that anyone with a mental disorder can exist from day to day w/o murdering multiple people.

5/18/2010 2:12:53 PM

LET ME BLAME A MURDERER'S ACTION ON HIS TOOL OF CHOICE.

guns don't kill people you moron.

If this guy stabbed and gutted 4 people, would you be saying the same thing about knives?
What about hanging?
What about fire?

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/18/2010 2:14:08 PM

^ he's not a murderer though. he's a paranoid schizophrenic that had a psychotic break and apparently had a gun nearby

5/18/2010 2:17:44 PM

he is a murderer. he killed four people. I don't care why he did it. It doesn't matter if he is a nutcase or not, he should be locked up forever, either in the funny farm or prison.

5/18/2010 2:19:22 PM

Quote :

"and i started the thread by saying the existence of guns were to blame but i kinda got ignored"

I ignored your 'guns are to blame' because I figured you had to be joking

5/18/2010 2:20:05 PM

You know what I blame, right?

Quote :

"the mental illness should have simply saved him from the needle and given him life (whether it be in a mental institution, or prison). "

THIS.

If I sleepwalk and kill someone, should I be held responsible?

5/18/2010 2:29:32 PM

Actually, no. People have been found innocent of rape that occurred while asleep.

5/18/2010 2:31:18 PM

people have also been found guilty after trying to say they were sleeping as their defense in a murder case

5/18/2010 3:06:27 PM

Quote :

"the mental illness should have simply saved him from the needle and given him life (whether it be in a mental institution, or prison)."

right.

sane or insane, you shouldnt be allowed to rejoin society.

5/18/2010 3:08:44 PM

trolling ITT

5/18/2010 3:10:52 PM

i saw a similar episode on L&O.
one of the victim's family member kills the dude as soon as he is outta prison!

5/18/2010 3:15:35 PM

Your tire blows out in your car.

You lose control of your car and hit a minivan.

Four people die.

According to the posters in this thread, the only reason you're not getting put to death is because it wasn't exactly your fault. You should get life in prison, though.

5/18/2010 3:44:33 PM

analogy fail

5/18/2010 3:45:37 PM

^

5/18/2010 3:46:18 PM

wow that was really bad.

5/18/2010 3:47:29 PM

Nah, just a false analogy.
Mechanical Accident != murder as a result of paranoid schizophrenia.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 3:51 PM. Reason : not equivocation fail.]

5/18/2010 3:48:49 PM

Quote :

"as a result of paranoid schizophrenia"

don't forget

Quote :

"Hayes was drunk and high on illegal drugs"

5/18/2010 3:53:25 PM

Probably.

My point was that both were homicides that weren't the fault of the defendant. The person should not be found guilty of murder, and they should not be thought of as a "repeat offender."

Quote :

"Hayes was drunk and high on illegal drugs"

I didn't know three Bud Lights and a drag off a joint causes homicidal rage. Man am I glad we have a war on drugs.

[Edited on May 18, 2010 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ]

5/18/2010 3:54:14 PM

I didn't know he had three Bud Lights and a drag off a joint, where did you get that information? Or did you just make it up?

Quote :

"My point was that both were homicides that weren't the fault of the defendant."

If the driver who blew out a tire in your stupid analogy had alcohol in his system, he most certainly would've been at fault

5/18/2010 3:56:12 PM

How on earth would his drunk driving cause a flat tire?

5/18/2010 4:01:13 PM

I tell everyone what. If God comes down to tell me to kill you all I'll take a trip to the doctor first just to be sure I'm not crazy before I start plugging you.

5/18/2010 4:01:56 PM

^^The point isn't whether or not drunk driving would cause a blown tire, its if he commits vehicular manslaughter and is found to have alcohol in his system, HE IS AT FAULT

5/18/2010 4:04:45 PM

Why? How did his actions directly result in the deaths?

5/18/2010 4:05:21 PM

You see God, alcohol affects judgment, motor skills (dyswidt), etc and some crazy kooky lawyers might actually try to argue that the accident might not have happened if the driver wasn't drunk...and the judge or jury might agree!

And I'm assuming the three Bud Lights and drag off a joint comment were completely fabricated? Cause I heard he drank a half gallon of tequila and smoked some PCP. Stupid war on drugs.

5/18/2010 4:06:22 PM

Quote :

"why does it HAVE to be someone's fault?"

the simpsons did it.

5/18/2010 4:08:29 PM

Quote :

"Why? How did his actions directly result in the deaths?"

he pulled the trigger multiple times knowing projectiles would exit the barrel likely killing people.

a blown tire is in no way similar...now if someone intentionally turns into the path of another vehicle....

you make it sound like its a miracle everyone with a mental condition doesn't go apeshit every day....and moreover, the mental condition is a free pass to do so.

5/18/2010 4:15:43 PM