this is Chit Chat, I'll rip into Apple regarding whatever I want

for example, since I have superior computer knowledge compared to, say, the average 90 year old, I am fully capable of using a PC and not having to settle for a Mac

5/20/2010 11:50:59 AM

ho'kay so...

5/20/2010 11:51:32 AM

also Apple is the only computer company I know that has a "black team" to recover/stop trade secret from hitting the press.

I wonder what prior experience you need to join the apple security team? CIA?

5/20/2010 11:53:49 AM

Be black I guess.

5/20/2010 11:54:33 AM

lol

5/20/2010 11:55:01 AM

Any computer manufacturer that at one point, instead of having a physical/mechanical eject button for floppy discs, required users to drag the disk icon to the trash bin to eject it

Is fucking stupid

5/20/2010 11:55:31 AM

i tried to find it but didn't see it.

did anyone point out the misspelling of factory in the title yet?

5/20/2010 11:55:42 AM

Quote :

"Any computer manufacturer that at one point, instead of having a physical/mechanical eject button for floppy discs, required users to drag the disk icon to the trash bin to eject it Is fucking stupid"

Still no eject button, holmes.

5/20/2010 11:59:03 AM

Quote :

"ONE BUTTON MOUSE"

5/20/2010 12:00:00 PM

I thought I used some Mac 7-8 years ago that actually did have one?

I have just always thought that was the dumbest thing. Want to eject a disc while the computer is powered off? Too bad.

[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ^lolol]

5/20/2010 12:00:34 PM

Quote :

"Still no eject button, holmes."

5/20/2010 12:00:45 PM

Ctrl + Alt + Delete?

nah nah nah nah nah

Its Control...OPEN APPLE...RESET

5/20/2010 12:01:28 PM

Quote :

"did anyone point out the misspelling of factory in the title yet?"

title character limit...

5/20/2010 12:04:12 PM

Are you complaining that Apple doesn't use the same key combination that you are used to on Windows?

Also, how has no one brought up that its named after a stupid fruit. That alone is reason enough to hate for me.

Quote :

"Still no eject button, holmes."

Thats a 'software' button, not a physical eject a tray button. (since there is no tray, but I'm sure you already knew that)


[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2010 12:04:45 PM

Quote :

"Are you complaining that Apple doesn't use the same key combination that you are used to on Windows?"

no, just that they essentially copied the CTRL+ALT+DEL combination, which I have been using on PCs before Windows 3.0 ever even came out

plus an NCSU alum 'invented' CTRL+ALT+DEL

5/20/2010 12:08:33 PM

Quote :

"no, just that they essentially copied the CTRL+ALT+DEL combination"

I thought you just said they didn't copy it which is why you're lol

5/20/2010 12:11:20 PM

the last Apple/Mac I used that I actually liked was an old IIe I used to munch numbers and words on

5/20/2010 12:12:56 PM

Quote :

"DIED OF DYSENTERY"

5/20/2010 12:16:46 PM

I've never liked Apple because my favorite color is blue and when Mac OS X experiences a hard lock up, the screen goes grey and tells you to restart. Where is the blue damnit!

5/20/2010 12:18:13 PM

Quote :

"Ctrl + Alt + Delete? nah nah nah nah nah Its Control...OPEN APPLE...RESET"

haha something similar happened to me last week. I was trying to ctrl + A on a Mac and it wasn't doing shit I asked my student what you're supposed to press on a Mac to highlight all the text and he goes, "There's buttons that do that?!"

5/20/2010 10:35:02 PM

^general rule is anything you did on windows with ctrl + whatever, replace the ctrl with cmd (command)

My parents don't know any keyboard shortcuts...lol

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 3:31 AM. Reason : .]

5/21/2010 3:30:25 AM

Quote :

"Another Foxconn Worker Dies, CEO Insists Factories Aren't "Sweatshops""

http://www.dailytech.com/Another+Foxconn+Worker+Dies+CEO+Insists+Factories+Arent++Sweatshops/article18494.htm

Quote :

"Foxconn brings more Buddhist monks to release souls of dead Apple plant workers from purgatory A ninth Foxconn worker fell to his death today just three days after the last fall. That brings the total to 11 falls at the Shenzen plant, which primarily manufactures Apple's iPads, iPhones, and iPods (other Foxconn locations manufacture motherboards for Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft game consoles and for personal computers). The deceased was a 19-year-old male. The fall occurred around 6:30 a.m., about the same time another young male fell to his death last Friday. Last year, Foxconn's plant workers had a suicide rate far below the average for rural China, which has one of the world's highest suicide rates. Last year, the company only had three suicides -- and one of those three was a suspected murder (of an employee who lost an iPhone prototype) that was eventually deemed "conclusively" to be a suicide. However, this year, a string of employees have been losing their lives in apparent suicides, falling off high windows and balconies in the Shenzhen factory town. Shenzhen holds anywhere from 330,000 to 420,000 employees. There's some question over whether the employees are not committing suicide, but rather falling to their deaths from sheer exhaustion. The company has reportedly been forcing employees to work long hours of overtime -- often unpaid -- to satisfy demand for the iPhone. The employees spend most of the day standing and reportedly can barely stand by the day's end. Yet another question is whether Foxconn's policy of security harassment of employees had any role in the deaths. Apple demands unparalleled security for its production facility and Foxconn has responded by recruiting a reportedly thuggish and brutal security detail. A video recently leaked of guards at another Foxconn plant pushing employees and pulling one employee aside and roughing him up. Shenzhen's security staff beat up one reporter who was trying to interview employees. Foxconn's CEO Guo Tai-ming finally addressed the suicides, speaking to Chinese reporters today. In the short interview he said that his company was struggling to deal with the 800,000+ employees it currently has spread out across a couple of massive factory complexes. He refuted claims that the Shenzhen factory was a "sweatshop". In the interview he stated: We are definitely not a ‘Sweatshop’ manufacturer. There are about 800,000 employees in China’s Foxconn, it is difficult for us to handle such a huge production team. We have (the) confidence to stabilize the whole situation. Many of the management issues, we must only (take action) instead of talking about it, but we have always done well on (that). The press media always loves to report Foxconn’s issues, if there are really problem behind the company, it already (have fallen apart), it will not wait until now. At the moment, a lot of things cannot be said. We are quietly doing (what we can to solve the case). Foxconn will now be playing Buddhist music on its assembly lines to try to soothe malcontent workers. It also is reportedly bringing in the Master of Buddhist Association of China to help counsel workers and release the souls of the dead workers from purgatory."

[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ,]

5/25/2010 12:03:00 PM

8-9 out of 400,000 is probably below average for industrial line workers...

5/25/2010 12:18:12 PM

^ neat we agree on something

regardless of the working conditions in the factory I think the article is overstating suicide as an occupational hazard of working in this factory


the World Health Organization reported (in 1999) that China's suicide rate was 13 per 100,000 for men and 14.8 per 100,000 for women

if we assume that this factory is an even split of men and women then the national average for our comparison is 13.9 suicides per 100,000


the Foxconn factory has had 7 suicides in the past 4 months - if suicides stay at this rate their number for the year will be 21 in a population of 400,000 employees

isn't their suicide rate (5.25 per 100,000) lower than the national average?



[Edited on May 25, 2010 at 12:44 PM. Reason : ]

5/25/2010 12:42:23 PM

more news:

Quote :

"Foxconn Retracts Letter Asking Employees Not to Kill Themselves"

http://www.dailytech.com/Foxconn+Retracts+Letter+Asking+Employees+Not+to+Kill+Themselves/article18543.htm

Quote :

"Turns to employee relocation, pay raises after yet another death Taiwan's Hon Hai Precision Industry's Chinese Foxconn unit has been having some problems at its Shenzhen plant lately. A string of suicides has compelled Apple, Dell, and HP to launch a string into the supplier. Foxconn previously responded by playing Buddhist music, offering employee counseling, and most requiring employees sign a letter promising not to kill themselves. Apparently that's not working out so well. On late Thursday, an employee slit his wrists, and according to the AFP has since become the eleventh to die this year. After receiving news of the latest attempt Sony, Nintendo, and Nokia joined a pending probe into the company's business that currently included Apple, HP, and Dell. In response to criticism about the letter, Foxconn CEO Terry Gou retracted it, saying it was inappropriate. Guo is also trying yet another tactic in hopes of convincing its employees not to jump off high buildings -- giving them a pay raise. Foxconn does give occasional raises, and claims that it has been planning to do so for some time, but never got around to it. Currently entry level workers are paid 900 yuan (about $131.80) per month and also have the chance to earn overtime or bonuses. According to Vincent Chen, an analyst at Yuanta Securities in Taipei, says that Foxconn typically bumps wages by 20 percent to meet holiday demand for consumer electronics. However, he says that a pay raise of 50 percent is not outside the realm of possibility. The pay raises will reportedly raise Hon Hai's operating costs by T$2.7B ($84M USD) and cut the company's profits by 10 to 12 percent, according to analysts at Citi. Other analysts disagreed, though. Chen comments, "I don't think this will impact Hon Hai's profitability...Hon Hai has raised salaries by up to 50 percent in the past, and it's still doing well." It is believed that at least some of the suicides were financially motivated. According to various employee accounts families of suicide victims with the company are typically paid between 8.5 and 10 years of pay. Faced with scant salaries, some depressed employees reportedly think they are doing their families a favor by killing themselves. Foxconn is also planning a mass relocation of about one fifth of its 400,000 employee Shenzhen workforce in Southern China to a plant in Western China. Workers often migrate to get jobs at Foxconn's plants. By moving the workers closer to home, Foxconn believes it can decrease their discontent."

[Edited on May 28, 2010 at 10:31 PM. Reason : .]

5/28/2010 10:31:06 PM

Quote :

"Employee Worked to Death at Apple Plant, Family Refused Full Benefits"

Quote :

"According to Chinese reports, a man recently was worked to death at an Apple plant. Foxconn, the manufacturer, is reportedly denying the man's family full benefits, as the death was not a suicide. (Source: Ming Pao)"

http://www.dailytech.com/Employee+Worked+to+Death+at+Apple+Plant+Family+Refused+Full+Benefits/article18591.htm

Quote :

"Foxconn refuses to pay family of employee who died of exhaustion after 34-hour shift as it wasn't suicide The Shenzhen factory-city in southern China that primarily serves as a manufacturing site for Apple's iPads, iPhones, and iPods has claimed another life, only this time it wasn't a suicide. The man was a 28-year old plant engineer who reportedly died of exhaustion after being forced to work 34 hours nonstop. Foxconn reportedly has been making employees work increasingly long hours to satisfy the growing demand for the iPad, including unpaid overtime. It also has reportedly been bullying employees at the Shenzhen Apple plant and elsewhere. The company is currently refusing to pay the family of the man, Yan Li, full benefits typically given for workers that commit suicide. Instead, despite having apparently worked him to death, the company plans to only give the family a smaller "humanitarian terms" payout. The man died shortly after suffering from shortness of breath. After the 34 hour workday, he had rested for 10 hours, then had returned to work and had worked for 12 hours before becoming ill and dying. Foxconn manufactures motherboards and other electronics for a variety of companies including Dell, HP, Microsoft, Nintendo, Nokia, and Sony. However the Shenzhen factory serves primarily as a manufacturing facility for Apple products big and small. It has all been the site of all the deaths thus far this year. Since the start of the year, 11 Shenzhen workers have committed suicide, while several more have made unsuccessful attempts. The string of suicides have brought to light the poor working conditions that the employees toil under daily. Hon Hai Precision Industry owns the Foxconn unit that operates the plant. The company has tried many approaches to stop the suicides -- Buddhist monks, "anger rooms", even contracts asking employees to promise not to kill themselves. However, the death toll has continued to rise. Foxconn's latest bid to halt the death toll is to give employees a long promised raise. The company just instituted a 30 percent pay bump at the Shenzhen facility, bringing workers' average starting wage from $132 USD a month to $172 USD per month, enough to buy one of the iPad Nanos they manufacture (after a month's work). The raise is rumored to be subsidized by Apple. Apple reportedly is taking a 0.7 percent loss on the iPad's cost to pay for the raise -- or rough $3.50 per iPad sold. This means that Apple's profit per unit sold will like drop from around $200 to around $196 per Wi-Fi iPad sold."

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2010 4:46:22 PM

Foxconn employees getting a 30% pay increase


Apple also rumored to be paying employees working on Apple products directly with an incentive program. iPad is rumored to be the first of said product lines.


The articles go both ways. I'll post the links if you really care that much about work conditions in China.


Did DNL write that article?

Quote :

"This means that Apple's profit per unit sold will like drop from around $200 to around $196 per Wi-Fi iPad sold."

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 4:51 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2010 4:49:45 PM

we all know you're an Apple fanboy, I am just posting tech news.

6/3/2010 4:57:45 PM

I am no fanboy and you are not posting tech news.

You are posting Chinese labor news related to a Chinese manufacturer.

Apple has as much to do with this as every other tech company in the world that uses Chinese manufacturers so I guess that is pretty much most of them. How many of them are stepping up to the plate to do something about the poor work conditions in China?

6/3/2010 5:00:55 PM

like I said, FanBoy

6/3/2010 5:01:22 PM

Call me what you want as long as you stay out of tech talk with your idiocy.

6/3/2010 5:01:54 PM

oh man, I pissed off the fanboy.

How is this not tech news? It is related to suicides at an Apple affiliated manufacturer who manufacturer tech products. Not to mention the source "DailyTech"

Also not every US tech product comes from Foxconn, Apple chose them for a reason.

It would seem like with the huge markup on Apple products they could produce their hardware in a more Apple environment. You know with windmills, solar panels, trees and free hippies to work the line.









[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 5:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2010 5:05:50 PM

Quote :

"oh man, I pissed off the fanboy. How is this not tech news? It is related to suicides at an Apple affiliated manufacturer who manufacturer tech products. Not to mention the source "DailyTech" Also not every US tech product comes from Foxconn, Apple chose them for a reason. It would seem like with the huge markup on Apple products they could produce their hardware in a more Apple environment. You know with windmills, solar panels, trees and free hippies to work the line."

like i said, keep this kind of idiocy out of tech talk.

6/3/2010 5:17:22 PM

or?

6/3/2010 5:17:56 PM

^

6/3/2010 5:18:38 PM

only a true Apple fanboys avoids the questions; you're on your way!

6/3/2010 5:19:28 PM

bait.

6/3/2010 5:20:06 PM

fish.

6/3/2010 5:21:42 PM

6/3/2010 5:22:12 PM

6/3/2010 5:34:20 PM

6/3/2010 6:26:49 PM

Quote :

"Employees at Apple's Hellish Foxconn Factory Feel Life is "Meaningless""

http://www.dailytech.com/Employees+at+Apples+Hellish+Foxconn+Factory+Feel+Life+is+Meaningless/article18624.htm

Quote :

"Authoritarian policies offer employees little freedom Ah Wei stands weary, at the point of breaking after a long 12-hour shift at Apple's Foxconn factory. He understands all too well the sentiments of the employees that committed suicide. Despite a 30 percent pay raise (which comes at a total cost to Apple of around $3.50 of its $200 in profit per iPad sold), he still only makes $172 USD a month, no where near enough to afford one of the hundreds of iPhones he makes a day. He still can't make enough to decently support his family, but he also is afraid if he quits he will be unemployed -- left with nothing at all. In a Bloomberg report he complains, "Life is meaningless. Everyday, I repeat the same thing I did yesterday. We get yelled at all the time. It’s very tough around here." Foxconn manufactures motherboards for virtually every major computer or phonemaker. Among its customers are Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Nokia, HP, and Dell. However, Apple is one of its biggest partners. Foxconn manufactures most of Apple's iPads, iPhones, and iPods. Amid rampant demand for iPads and iPhones, Foxconn has cracked down on employee freedoms and forced employees to work longer hours, often times unpaid. Conditions at the Apple plant are reportedly far worse than the working conditions at other Foxconn plants used by Dell, HP, and others. On the line employees are now forbidden to talk to each other. They only are allowed 10 minutes of bathroom breaks every 2 hours -- even if they are sick. Noise on the factory floor is so loud that it has damaged many employees hearing -- even that of employees like Ah Wei, who wears ear plugs while on the line. Many employees have reportedly requested transfers out of the hellish factory to one of Foxconn's other facilities, and had their requests denied. Ah Wei has tried three times to request a transfer, but has had no luck. The Shenzhen facility has trappings of a pleasant workplace. Palm trees surround the factory town that house as many as 420,000 employees. Inside the town there is a hospital, a collection of restaurants and even a swimming pool. However, one need only look at the employees to recognize the authoritarian atmosphere. Men are forced to wear matching blue uniforms whenever they go out, and women wear matching red uniforms. Security personnel are easily recognizable in their white uniforms. Liu Bin, an average employee at the plant complains that the company expects workers to work at least six 12-hour shifts a week (72 hours). Meanwhile they get inferior medical coverage, are constantly exposed to toxic solvents and vapors, and don't have enough money to buy nutritious food. At least one employee has reportedly died of exhaustion this year. States Liu, "It’s hard to make friends because you aren’t allowed to chat with your colleagues during work. Most of us have little education and have no skills so we have no choice but to do this kind of job. I feel no sense of achievement and I’ve become a machine." Terry Gou, Hon Hai Precision Industry's chairman of the Foxconn unit, is baffled by the suicides. The exec, who reportedly enjoys a decadent lifestyle and recently married a new young bride, says he can't understand why employees would take their lives. He states, "Are we going to have this happen again? From a logical, scientific standpoint, I don’t have a grasp on that. No matter how you force me, I don’t know." Gou is Hon Hai's largest shareholder with over 10.8 percent of the company's stock. He's estimated to have assets in excess of $5.9B USD, making him one of the world's richest men. Apple Inc., whose sales in industrialized nations are so dependent on Foxconn, is sticking by its partner -- for now. CEO Steven P. Jobs -- another one of the world's richest men -- comments, "We are all over this. Foxconn is not a sweatshop.""

6/6/2010 1:42:05 AM

BlackDog, I know that you're posting this to just get a rise out of people, but I'm starting to wish you'd stuck with the drug threads.

6/6/2010 3:15:55 AM

BLAH BLAH BLAH, beats people going postal with a machine gun at the work place...

6/6/2010 3:21:07 AM

Quote :

"While this is really bad what makes you think conditions aren't like this for a lot of the manufacturers in China? I doubt this is the only one where workers are treated so horribly."

The fact that I've actually been to a world class plant owned and operated by Caterpillar in China (and by "world class," I don't mean by Chinese standards, but rather my own standards, having worked in a US plant). It was the nicest plant that I have ever been in. It was about 76 degrees in there, you could eat off the fucking floor, the workers worked 8 hours a day (well, they actually worked for 7 of the 8 hours, 30 was for lunch and the other 30 was for breaks throughout the day). Not all manufacturers in China are hell holes like the Foxconn plant.

But this is what happens when you live in the US and the media ONLY reports on the plants that are hell holes. You never hear about the plants that are actually quite nice. So you get a slanted point of view of the country that leads you to spit out dumb shit. It's not really your fault, but rather a lack of reporting by the media. I would have thought the same thing as you had I never came to China.

Part of the problem is with the government not mandating any type of working standards, but it's no excuse for Foxconn.

And while the article gave you a figure of 130 USD as their monthly earnings, it's worth mentioning that 130 USD goes A LOT farther in China than in the US. But, even by Chinese standards, it's really quite low.

Quote :

"ding! ding! ding! We have a winner!"

No. No you don't.

Quote :

"Unless they are being forced to work then its not slave labor. If they continue to choose to work for such shitty wages thats their fault. We bring the work to them because they are willing to work so cheaply. Sure their other choice is to be even more dirt poor, but no one is forcing them to work in these places. "

This is the real winner. There's a lot more truth in this than I think most people here will realize. Not all work places are hell holes. There are a lot of decent jobs that do pay higher than what Foxconn pays out, and has better working conditions.

6/6/2010 3:44:04 AM

you really can survive off of $2 a day out in china with good food, i mean really good rice and noodles.

6/6/2010 3:48:09 AM

Quote :

"No. No you don't."

see...

Quote :

" for a lot "

so yes, we do have a winner. A lot != all. Did they not teach you that at the Cat plant in China?

Quote :

"This is the real winner. There's a lot more truth in this than I think most people here will realize. Not all work places are hell holes. There are a lot of decent jobs that do pay higher than what Foxconn pays out, and has better working conditions."

I, too, wish getting a job was as easy as 'hey i want to work for your company, thanks'


You've visited one plant in the most populated country in the world and suddenly you've seen it all and are an expert. Its a known fact that (while not all) but many of the work conditions in China aren't that great along with their wages. Some of us don't just take the medias word for it.

[Edited on June 6, 2010 at 4:06 AM. Reason : .]

6/6/2010 4:02:41 AM

Quote :

"A lot != all. Did they not teach you that at the Cat plant in China?"

Did you not learn that a lot != 1 plant of 400,000 employees at NCSU?

The business majors also went to a furniture factory, where the working conditions weren't bad, according to them.

You read about 1 fucking factory, run by 1 fucking company, having bad work conditions, and suddenly you feel that your over-generalization about an entire country holds true about all of the plants in China.

6/6/2010 4:07:31 AM

Quote :

"You read about 1 fucking factory, run by 1 fucking company, having bad work conditions, and suddenly you feel that your over-generalization about an entire country holds true about all of the plants in China."

This thread is about 1 factory. There are many like it, but this one is in the spotlight because its Apple related. Why you fail to understand this is the real issue here.

Quote :

"Did you not learn that a lot != 1 plant of 400,000 employees at NCSU?"

Makes no sense...but ok.

Quote :

"The business majors also went to a furniture factory, where the working conditions weren't bad, according to them."

So you've been to two factories now in China? Expert ITT.

[Edited on June 6, 2010 at 2:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/6/2010 2:43:03 PM

I wonder what it would do to Apple's profit margins if they actually paid their sweatshop employees decently.

6/6/2010 2:46:43 PM