Quote :

"e pluribus unum"

Out of the many...one!

5/22/2010 7:42:07 AM

it has everything to do with racism. what you're saying is everyone is happy to take care of their own but in America it can't happen because nobody wants to pay for a social program thats going to help bring blacks and hispanics out of horrid living conditions.

5/22/2010 9:49:05 AM

No, what I'm saying is that it's much easier for a country that consists almost entirely of a single demographic with common ancestry and religion--along with associated common belief system, social priorities, visions, and goals--to reach a consensus on what the goals and success criteria of a particular government run social program should be and how much that program is worth in terms of public dollars.

Which is completely different from the shit you're spewing.

5/22/2010 10:17:10 AM

^I like your thinking principal skinner! I mean armon tanzarian...

5/22/2010 1:23:15 PM

Quote :

"yep. in america its all about white privilege and keeping the browns out of the club."

Jesus tittyfucking Christ.

If we had a dollar for every time this moron brought up "white privilege" in a wholly unrelated discussion we could pay for everyone to have healthcare and free college tuition.

mambagrl, trolling us all to socialist paradise.

5/22/2010 1:45:30 PM

It's fun knowing someone can disappear from TWW for a year or more at a time, come back to TSB...

...and nothing's changed

5/22/2010 2:29:55 PM

Quote :

"If we had a dollar for every time this moron brought up "white privilege" in a wholly unrelated discussion we could pay for everyone to have healthcare and free college tuition."

nice

5/22/2010 2:38:07 PM

Quote :

"Please move somewhere without internet access"

i lol'd

5/22/2010 7:33:57 PM

Quote :

" No, what I'm saying is that it's much easier for a country that consists almost entirely of a single demographic with common ancestry and religion--along with associated common belief system, social priorities, visions, and goals--to reach a consensus on what the goals and success criteria of a particular government run social program should be and how much that program is worth in terms of public dollars. Which is completely different from the shit you're spewing."

we're both right.

the reason it can't happen here is because white people would have to include so many brown people protestants would have to include so many catholics or whatever the situation may be in the welfare.

If everyone was a white baptist, conservatives would have no problem with socialism. This is why they think everything should be done at the localist of levels. This way people in Cary don't have to pay for schools in Tarboro and they can allocate all of their money to schools in cary.

5/23/2010 2:09:14 AM

To be honest I'd probably enjoy Denmark, and a 35 hour work week with a month of vacation per year sounds awesome, even if I don't get to take home much money. This is why I strongly considered teaching after all . Little salary but plenty of vacation time and great government benefits.

On the other hand, I really like America and don't want to leave.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 2:50 AM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 2:50:18 AM

^^ there aren't enough rolly-eyes in the world...

5/23/2010 3:00:40 AM

^^^ what ^ said.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 8:48 AM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 8:19:26 AM

Its not going out on a limb to suggest there are people in this country that want to keep minorities down. The same people that blatantly oppressed minorities are still around. They've just found more sophisticated/politically correct ways of forcing minorities into inferior living conditions.

You must be one of those people that think all the george wallaces of the world instantly became true loving christians after brown vs board of education. No. They just went back to the drawing board.

5/23/2010 10:22:08 AM

The only thing I've suggested is why it's easier for a country like Denmark to implement wide ranging social programs: because it's easier for them to agree on things.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Surely someone of your intellect can see that.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason : How has Coolio not been in this thread yet?]

5/23/2010 10:42:32 AM

The problem with your argument is that you have failed to use any real evidence other than racist generalizations. No political party has ever held a absolute majority of parliament in Denmark, so I'd argue they have a much more difficult time agreeing on on things.

5/23/2010 11:04:11 AM

mambagrl is a racist.

5/23/2010 11:57:55 AM

^^ I'm not sure how the fact that nearly the entire country of Denmark falls under a single demographic is a "racist generalization".

I'm also not sure how suggesting that Danes may find it easier to reach consensus on major social issues because of fundamental broad-based commonalities (such as religion) is a "racist generalization".

I was also unaware the idea that people with things in common perhaps find it easier to reach decisions, conclusions, and consensus really needed much of an argument.

5/23/2010 12:46:23 PM

Quote :

"Kris: No political party has ever held a absolute majority of parliament in Denmark, so I'd argue they have a much more difficult time agreeing on on things."

Or that an absolute majority's worth of parties agree on all the major issues, and spend their time campaigning over minor concerns...

I'm with Tanzarian and theDuke on this one 

5/23/2010 1:25:54 PM

Quote :

"'m also not sure how suggesting that Danes may find it easier to reach consensus on major social issues because of fundamental broad-based commonalities (such as religion) is a "racist generalization"."

You're justifying a claim based on generalities rather than actual evidence.

Quote :

"I was also unaware the idea that people with things in common perhaps find it easier to reach decisions, conclusions, and consensus really needed much of an argument."

It depends on if the things in common are at all related to the decisions, conclusions, or consensus. For example, if we got together a big group of left handed people together and got them to come to a conclusion about abortion, do you think they would have any less difficulty than a group of right and left handed people?

Quote :

"Or that an absolute majority's worth of parties agree on all the major issues, and spend their time campaigning over minor concerns..."

What the hell are you talking about? It's obvious that the majority supports any programs in place in Denmark, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't debate about them.

5/23/2010 1:35:44 PM

Quote :

"Kris: What the hell are you talking about? It's obvious that the majority supports any programs in place in Denmark, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't debate about them."

I was talking about your argument that Danes "have a much more difficult time on agreeing on on things" -- that's why it was in the quote box

Any particular evidence you'd like to offer for your ill-conceived assertion beyond the fact no political party has an absolute majority in a parliamentary government?

5/23/2010 1:37:40 PM

Quote :

"Any particular evidence you'd like to offer for your ill-conceived assertion beyond the fact no political party has an absolute majority in a parliamentary government?"

They have 5 major parties and the difference in ideaology between the Venstre and the Social Democrats is more than far more than even between the Republicans and Democrats here.

I suppose you'll just follow that up with "NAH-UH" again right?

5/23/2010 1:46:58 PM

Theres a supermajority so who is it that disagrees with socialism?

Nobody disagrees except the far right, libertarians and tea partiers.

Its not racist to point out who these political groups (tea partiers) consist of. They consist of the same people that never wanted the government interfering. Slavery, civil rights, healthcare and immigration. Just look at recent comments from their leaders Palin and Paul. They are self proclaimed rednecks who think banks, communities and other private businesses should be able to keep minorities out. Palin even went as far as going down to Arizona unnecessarily to make sure it was known she endorsed their new racist law

There just isn't much diversity in these tea partiers and it would be a very minute movement if you didn't have southern baptists. Yes the same southern baptists whose preachers assembled (not THAT long ago) to produce the kkk and terrorize the civil rights movement with the help of law enforcement. Guess where some of the preachers who were young men and law enforcement agents from the 60s end up when they get old?

I'll give you a hint. The former kkk members in the south didn't vote for Obama. There also happens to be a large number of people down here who publicly want Obama dead but he was elected so they surely are the minority and there surely would be small opposition to socialism without them.

I'm not going out on a limb at all saying its racist whites who keep socialism from happening and that it wouldn't be a problem if everyone was just like them because then there wouldn't be racism.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM. Reason : tea party has anti civil rights as their platform]

5/23/2010 1:59:48 PM

Quote :

"You're justifying a claim based on generalities rather than actual evidence."

I realize demographics are based on generalities. Where's the racist part?

Quote :

"It depends on if the things in common are at all related to the decisions, conclusions, or consensus. For example, if we got together a big group of left handed people together and got them to come to a conclusion about abortion, do you think they would have any less difficulty than a group of right and left handed people?"

Clearly ancestry, religion, and handedness all have equal influence on social mores.

5/23/2010 2:23:32 PM

Quote :

"I realize demographics are based on generalities. Where's the racist part?"

Your claim here is that white danes are superior at establishing political systems.

Quote :

"Clearly ancestry, religion, and handedness all have equal influence on social mores."

I would argue that none of them are relevant to establishing public social programs.

5/23/2010 2:30:47 PM

Quote :

"Your claim here is that white danes are superior at establishing political systems."

I've claimed no such thing.

Quote :

"I would argue that none of them are relevant to establishing public social programs."

Shouldn't be relevant or aren't relevant?

5/23/2010 2:35:20 PM

indy: "mambagrl is a racist"
mambagrl: "No, I'm not. Because blah blah [a bunch of prejudiced bullshit] blah blah." (paraphrased)

:\

5/23/2010 2:37:03 PM

^best argument ever! Holy shit, thanks for sharing such enlightening and intelligent comments like those!

Quote :

"I've claimed no such thing."

Probably[ability to establish political systems] has more to do with the homogeneous population.

90% of the population are of Danish descent. 80% of the population belongs the same religion.

Quote :

"Shouldn't be relevant or aren't relevant?"

Are not relevant. They may be relevant to things like immigration or numerous other things, but nothing like what was talked about in the original post.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 2:41 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 2:40:28 PM

Quote :

"No, what I'm saying is that it's much easier for a country that consists almost entirely of a single demographic with common ancestry and religion--along with associated common belief system, social priorities, visions, and goals--to reach a consensus on what the goals and success criteria of a particular government run social program should be and how much that program is worth in terms of public dollars. Which is completely different from the shit you're spewing."

Quote :

"The only thing I've suggested is why it's easier for a country like Denmark to implement wide ranging social programs: because it's easier for them to agree on things. Nothing more, nothing less."

Nowhere have I suggested that white people are superior at establishing political systems.

Nowhere have I suggested that Danes are superior at establishing political systems.

Nowhere have I suggested Denmark has a better or worse political system than anywhere else.

Nowhere have I suggested that whites or Danes are superior at anything.

The only thing I've suggested is that groups with a common background may find it easier to reach a consensus. I've made no suggestion as to whether that consensus is right or wrong or better or worse than consensus reached another way.

You're reading things into what I've said that just aren't there.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 3:19 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 3:16:29 PM

Quote :

" [a bunch of prejudiced bullshit]"

wheres the prejudiced bullshit? we have a quote feature for that so you dont hve to look stupid.

Nowhere did I say all tea partiers were racist.

In fact, I made it very clear that not all of the far right was racist but the movement certainly would be much smaller and less significant without the racists.

5/23/2010 4:04:32 PM

I think that true racism has negligible impact on U.S. politics.

I think that xenophobia and misplaced nationalism both have some impact (in the immigration debate and in some protectionist policies).

I think that there's a lot more to the immigration debate than xenophobia, though.



This attitude of support for economic freedoms having a (more than completely negligible) racist motivation is just retarded.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:11 PM. Reason : there are racists out there, across the political spectrum...but they don't drive policy.]

5/23/2010 4:10:42 PM

^^
Dude, you're not worth my time. Your views are whacked out and wrong. You simply don't deserve any more attention.
(Your turn. This is when you say, "haha see?" and claim victory... )


^
OMG Thank you.

I will quote for truth. (Hey moron, God, Pupilsdil8, mambagrl! Are you listening?)

Quote :

"This attitude of support for economic freedoms having a (more than completely negligible) racist motivation is just retarded. .... there are racists out there, across the political spectrum...but they don't drive policy"

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:13 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 4:11:15 PM

^^so answer these question.

do you think people who were pro kkk and anti civil rights are no longer racist?

What do you credit for this change?

Why areas worst for the civil rights movement conveniently showing the highest resistance to modern social reform?

^Nothing you say can discredit my view on this because they are shared by several mainstream politicians. Its not absurd to think the way I think. It is absurd however to think racism completely vanished from the bloodstreams of politicians with the simple strike of a gavel.
if they are out there, how would they NOT drive political policy


[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:19 PM. Reason : thats contradictive]

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:19 PM. Reason : code]

5/23/2010 4:18:28 PM

Quote :

"do you think people who were pro kkk and anti civil rights are no longer racist? What do you credit for this change?"

What change? There'd only be change if you answered 'no' to the first question. No one's answered it yet.
(loaded question maybe? )

Quote :

"It is absurd however to think racism completely vanished from the bloodstreams of politicians with the simple strike of a gavel."

True. And it hasn't vanished from non-politicians -- just look at you.


Why am I responding to you? Damn troll.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 4:21:59 PM

Quote :

"Kris: They have 5 major parties and the difference in ideaology between the Venstre and the Social Democrats is more than far more than even between the Republicans and Democrats here."

And tell me again exactly what relevance the differences between Venstre and SD has with respect to your claim Danes "have a much more difficult time on agreeing on on things"?

---

Quote :

"Kris: I suppose you'll just follow that up with "NAH-UH" again right?"

Not at all, still waiting on relevant evidence to your claim beyond trying to tout the fact there hasn't been an absolute majority in the Folketing in 30ish years.

You've been using the same rhetorical devices on TWW for almost a decade now, it's time to upgrade  

5/23/2010 4:28:47 PM

Quote :

"mambagrl: Why areas worst for the civil rights movement conveniently showing the highest resistance to modern social reform?"

Just so I can follow along with this other debate, what areas are you referring to?

5/23/2010 4:33:55 PM

Quote :

" And it hasn't vanished from non-politicians -- just look at you. "

How am I racist?

o thats right. its racist to call out racism...we should just ignore and it will go away.

/cop out. the same cop out fox news used against reid pelosi rangle boxer and others who "played the race card"

^the christian far right. namely the south.

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:40 PM. Reason : the gun owning, bible slinging, confederate flag flying south]

5/23/2010 4:38:58 PM

Quote :

"its racist to specifically call out racism where it doesn't necessarily exist."

Quote :

"This attitude of support for economic freedoms having a (more than completely negligible) racist motivation is just retarded. .... there are racists out there, across the political spectrum...but they don't drive policy"

Quote :

"This attitude of support for economic freedoms having a (more than completely negligible) racist motivation is just retarded. .... there are racists out there, across the political spectrum...but they don't drive policy"

Quote :

"This attitude of support for economic freedoms having a (more than completely negligible) racist motivation is just retarded. .... there are racists out there, across the political spectrum...but they don't drive policy"

[Edited on May 23, 2010 at 4:44 PM. Reason : ]

5/23/2010 4:43:29 PM

sup fag lol

5/23/2010 4:56:20 PM

Quote :

"mambagrl: ^the christian far right. namely the south... the gun owning, bible slinging, confederate flag flying south"

Gotcha. How big a percentage of the South do you think "gun owning, Bible slinging, confederate flag flying" people are though?

If memory serves me correctly, this section of the country has had the highest net immigration of people for a couple decades now -- predominantly from the Northeast, and over the past 10ish years especially by blacks who found the South more welcoming than other parts of the country (IIRC the NY Times ran a story recently where it indicated 2 of every 3 blacks who left the South during the civil rights era are returning)

I don't doubt for a minute that the folks you're talking about exist; I still chuckle when I occasionally get told I'm going to burn in hell because I'm Catholic and thus not a "true" Christian. But I'm also a fairly conservative white male who didn't vote for Obama, has opposed almost everything he's done in office, and is pretty far from anything even remotely along the lines of being racist.

There's always the possibility I'm a white elephant (pun intended), but I suspect there are more people like me than not. At least I hope so

5/23/2010 4:57:31 PM

Intersting NYT article a friend sent me:

PAYBACK TIME: Crisis Imperils Liberal Benefits Long Expected by Europeans

Quote :

"Europeans have boasted about their social model, with its generous vacations and early retirements, its national health care systems and extensive welfare benefits, contrasting it with the comparative harshness of American capitalism. Europeans have benefited from low military spending, protected by NATO and the American nuclear umbrella. They have also translated higher taxes into a cradle-to-grave safety net. 'The Europe that protects' is a slogan of the European Union. But all over Europe governments with big budgets, falling tax revenues and aging populations are experiencing rising deficits, with more bad news ahead."

http://tinyurl.com/23jaklt

I don't think this means that the political/economic model followed by Denmark and other countries is totally untenable (as noted its really separated from our own by a matter of degrees), but I do think this article is a perfect illustration that extending social benefits beyond what we currently enjoy in the U.S. is not costless. Specifically, extending benefits to this extent makes it difficult to not only deal with short-run deficits, but also makes it more difficult to deal with long-term demographic changes (a problem the U.S. will also be facing in coming years).

[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 10:30 AM. Reason : ``]

5/24/2010 10:30:01 AM

THATS. RACIST.

5/24/2010 11:05:23 AM

^^Not to go about defending a socialist system all that much... but if they're only just now facing rising deficits, good for them. At the very least, it's better than what our government's done with the deficit (continue to spend, pretend debt doesn't exist unless convenient as a talking point, hope the money fairy makes the problem go away).

5/24/2010 11:23:17 AM

the "racism is why we dont have socialism" theory might be the most retarded fucking thing i've ever read.

Quote :

"it can't happen because nobody wants to pay for a social program thats going to help bring blacks and hispanics out of horrid living conditions. they dont use"

Im sure people paying the most tax dollars sit back and think "well shit...I don't use these programs but I would love to spend my hard earned dollars so some white people could be on social programs...but I dont want to pay for any blacks or hispanics"

get out of here

5/24/2010 11:58:49 AM

Unless mambagrl is implying that only blacks and and hispanics use these social programs.

Confirmed, mambagrl is in fact a racist



[Edited on May 24, 2010 at 12:34 PM. Reason : grl]

5/24/2010 12:31:46 PM

i can't believe you morons are arguing with mambagrl. Ignore her/he "it" and TSB will be a better place for all.

5/24/2010 1:11:57 PM

Its not only minorities who use the programs but they are the groups that could benefit the most from them. They were set back by systematic oppression and will stay back from that until the playing field is leveled.

Rich people don't want to level the playing field because that means their children who have had everything given to them would have to compete with selfmotivated upstart minorities. The birthrighted white privilege of their children is threatened by socialism.

5/24/2010 1:24:08 PM

^ since you have such a hard on for socialism I'll buy you a raft and you can swim on down to Cuba. They seem pretty on the ball.

5/24/2010 2:25:39 PM

^^
Also, "leveling the playing field" is the equality of means, not the equality of ends.
Socialism pursues the latter. It is inescapably authoritarian, and if forced upon people, evil.
Socialism is only ethical if 100% of its participants opt in. (something like a commune or monastery)

5/24/2010 2:37:40 PM

freedom is only ethical if everyone is charitable

5/24/2010 5:51:25 PM

I, for one, donate exactly jack shit to charity, and will continue this approach unless we take a dramatic, staggering turn away from entitlement programs and redistribution of wealth. As long as you're forcibly taking lots of money from me, I won't give a goddamn cent up voluntarily.

5/24/2010 6:06:23 PM