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Star Trek Voyager's series finale... if old janeway changed all that shit, that old janeway wouldn't have existed to go back and change all that shit, in which case the shit wouldn't be changed and old janeway would be pissed.

7/7/2010 12:51:15 AM

http://www.cracked.com/article_16625_8-classic-movies-that-got-away-with-gaping-plot-holes.html

#1 is awesome

Quote :

"#1. Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back We had to make this number one, not because of the size of the plot hole, but because it's friggin' Star Wars. That's right nerds, the indisputably best one of the series has a pretty gaping hole of its own. The Plot: You know the plot. Don't play that game. The Hole: So there's the famous sequence where Luke gets trained by Yoda on Yoda's shithole of a planet. To break up the sequence, the film cuts to the Millennium Falcon getting chased by the Empire to Lando's cloud city. When they arrive, they get captured, at which point Luke has finished his training. Well, that doesn't work. Were they chased for months? Or was Luke trained in an afternoon? Either we were spared some extended scenes on board the Millennium Falcon featuring starvation and debates about when they'd have to eat Chewbacca, or becoming a Jedi is easier than getting a cub scout merit badge. Pictured: The entire Jedi training process The latter explanation seems more plausible, as it just reveals Luke to be an even whinier bitch than he seemed. Talk about ungrateful, he's getting taught God-like abilities in about six hours, and he complains through literally every single one of them. It also means Yoda's insistence that Jedis start their training as young children isn't because the training's such a long arduous process, but because he's amused by the idea of children knowing how to choke each other with their minds. Now it's true that when Luke tries to leave, Yoda insists the training isn't over. But when Luke returns to Planet Shithole in Return of the Jedi to finish it, Yoda waves him off and tells him there's nothing else to learn. Then it turns out the final test Luke has to pass to become a Jedi is to defeat Darth Vader, the most powerful Jedi in the universe which kind of seems like a huge leap in difficulty after his one-day training session. That'd be like if the final stage of your driving test was to win the Indy 500. So to answer the question, at what point did George Lucas stop paying attention? It looks like it was part way through the second movie."

I actually came to post about the Empire Strikes back, but it wasn't about how short Luke's training was, it's actually kind of the opposite.

Han couldn't get away from the Empire because his hyperdrive was broken, right? So he hides in the Hoth system asteroid belt, then attaches to the star destroyer until he can float off with the trash and make his escape.

However, even if the Bespin was the closest star to the Hoth system (which is ridiculously unlikely since there are billions of systems in a galaxy) it would still have taken them several years to get there with a broken hyperdrive.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 2:00 AM. Reason : fixed image]

7/7/2010 2:00:04 AM

wtf are you people on about

lafta is 100% right

People wouldn't consider it a great twist if the twist was Chazz Palminteri 'realizing verbal was bullshitting him.'

7/7/2010 2:28:05 AM

^^
"In a galaxy far, far away"....maybe in their galaxy systems are much closer. Maybe they have some other trans-light drive in addition to their hyperdrive.

Quick Interstellar travel I always take with a grain of salt because given our current physical and cosmological models it's impossible. But it sure sounds cool.

It's lame that they called it the Hoth system when Hoth was the name of a planet in that system. That was just lazy writing.

7/7/2010 8:01:46 AM

^Well there has to be some kind of advanced propulsion system that makes them travel faster than we think. In the first one when the stormtroopers are chasing them from Mos Eisley they make it from the surface of Tatooine to outside of the atmosphere in like 30 seconds.

7/7/2010 9:13:32 AM

Leaving the atmosphere of a planet in 30 seconds is WAY more believable than getting between star systems in less than years. Plus maybe, Tatooine is really small.

The unbelievability of quick interstellar travel doesn't have to do with conceivable propulsion systems; it breaks our current understanding about the nature of the universe. Which is why I thoroughly am able to suspend my disbelief; it's so radically impossible that you just go with it.

7/7/2010 9:24:14 AM

Don't forget that the cop comes in asking "who is kaiser sose?". This clues verbal in that the name was leaked to the scene, possibly via a survivor. He hadn't included him at that point in the story, and probably never intended to. His goal was to get out of there and if divulging information was the only way, then power to him.

7/7/2010 11:54:45 AM

Quote :

"It's lame that they called it the Hoth system when Hoth was the name of a planet in that system. That was just lazy writing."

could be that Hoth is the only planet in the system, or the largest or something...
same kind of thing with Endor. i always got confused if the planet with Ewoks is Endor, or the moon of Endor. from starwars.com: "Secluded in a remote corner of the Outer Rim Territories, the gas giant Endor and its verdant moon of the same name ..."

7/7/2010 12:34:59 PM

I always figured that they just numbered the moons after the name of the planet. In Episode IV the rebel base was on Yavin IV I think. And the actual planet the moon was orbiting was just Yavin.

7/7/2010 1:57:50 PM

Quote :

"Star Trek Voyager's series finale... if old janeway changed all that shit, that old janeway wouldn't have existed to go back and change all that shit, in which case the shit wouldn't be changed and old janeway would be pissed."

temporal isolation/insulation theory, the basic idea is time travelers, once they have left their time lines to travel back into the past (by doing so usually creates alternate time lines depending on events they influence) are isolated/insulated in time from changes to the new time line, in effect, for them, their time line continues or ends (or rather continues without them but the "past" there had played out the same, or just plain ends completely) while they are integrated into a entirely new time line.

7/7/2010 2:03:02 PM

Quote :

"could be that Hoth is the only planet in the system, or the largest or something..."

It always bugged me that every planet had a single, global climate. The desert planet of Tatooine, the ice planet of Hoth, the forest moon of Endor, the swamp planet of Dagobah, the city planet of Coruscant, etc.

Heaven forbid any of the writers be creative or shoot at more than one location.

7/7/2010 2:30:30 PM

Quote :

"the city planet of Coruscant"

lol and which climate would this be?

7/7/2010 2:40:33 PM

you know, a city.

like you find in nature.

shut up and leave me alone.

7/7/2010 2:44:09 PM

I agree with your point, just saying that last example was silly .

7/7/2010 2:46:09 PM

Quote :

"could be that Hoth is the only planet in the system, or the largest or something..."

Star systems are named after, you know, stars.

7/7/2010 3:03:11 PM

Quote :

"It always bugged me that every planet had a single, global climate."

More examples:
Kamino - Nothing but ocean
Mustafar - Nothing but lava
Bespin - Nothing but clouds
Alderaan - Nothing

7/7/2010 3:04:51 PM

Quote :

"Alderaan - Nothing"

ZING

7/7/2010 3:34:21 PM

Han Solo has an amazing futuristic ship that can warp time and space, yet instead of computerized fire control he has two 1940s gun turrets.

7/7/2010 3:39:42 PM

Look, the Falcon is a hunk of junk. Everybody cops to that. Solo specifically kitted the thing out to be fast, not to have nice guns.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 3:54 PM. Reason : Stock radio in your autocross car.]

7/7/2010 3:54:23 PM

SHE MAY NOT LOOK LIKE MUCH

BUT SHE'S GOT IT WHERE IT COUNTS

7/7/2010 3:58:51 PM

Quote :

"It always bugged me that every planet had a single, global climate. The desert planet of Tatooine, the ice planet of Hoth, the forest moon of Endor, the swamp planet of Dagobah, the city planet of Coruscant, etc."

Quote :

"Kamino - Nothing but ocean Mustafar - Nothing but lava Bespin - Nothing but clouds"

Not saying it can't be part lazy writing, but it's not unrealistic to have a single planetwide climate. I mean imagine earth just happened to have 3 times as much water, and you have Kamino. Or if earth was farther from the sun, you have Hoth. Mustafar's probably just a planet early in development. Bespin is a gas giant with a breathable atmosphere. Our world could have probably been called a "forest world" before grass became prominent.


The only unrealistic one is probably Dagobah being all swamp.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 5:28 PM. Reason : ]

7/7/2010 5:27:37 PM

Tatooine also has two suns so I'm sure that helps make it a desert planet.

7/7/2010 5:31:05 PM

Not really. There's no way of knowing distance and size of the stars relative to the planet. We can't simply assume they're two Sun-sized stars who tag team and provide double the heat.

7/7/2010 5:34:31 PM

Desert worlds aren't really unrealistic either. Shit mars is a desert world. We don't know if Tatooine even has a natural ecosystem, it's possible it was just a half-assed terraforming job with some imported animals, the SW galaxy has been around a long time.


Oh, here's another plot hole I remember. If Han is trying to hide from Jabba, why is he on Jabba's home planet at the start of the first move? And why did it take so long to find his base between ESB and ROTJ? It's not like he was hiding, he's got well known bounties that anyone off the street can come in and pick up, and two random jedi could immediately find out that the planet was hutt controlled in ep 1 with some sort of intergalactic travel guidebook. Plus Jabba didn't seem too shy about showing up at the podrace in Ep 1 or cruising around in his flashy sail barge.

7/7/2010 5:47:44 PM

any plotholes in 4-6 that require evidence from 1-3 should be automatically forgiven.

7/7/2010 5:50:26 PM

Doesn't get around the bounties and sail barge.

Besides, Jabba wanted him because Han screwed up while smuggling for him. Han was working for Jabba. Him not knowing where Jabba lives is retarded.

7/7/2010 5:54:01 PM

Most low level drug dealers don't know where the boss lives.

Its a matter of protecting your best interests...if lots of people know where you live, its more likely for your enemies to find out.

Its possible that Han met Jabba or one of Jabba's associates at a neutral location to receive orders and make payments.

7/7/2010 5:56:36 PM

AndyMac said:

Quote :

"Oh, here's another plot hole I remember. If Han is trying to hide from Jabba, why is he on Jabba's home planet at the start of the first move?"

Tatooine isn't Jabba's home planet. By the time of Return of the Jedi, he had a palace there, but nothing in the theatrical cut of Episode IV suggests that Jabba is on Tatooine.

Quote :

"And why did it take so long to find his base between ESB and ROTJ? It's not like he was hiding, he's got well known bounties that anyone off the street can come in and pick up, and two random jedi could immediately find out that the planet was hutt controlled in ep 1 with some sort of intergalactic travel guidebook."

It's not that they couldn't find him. The heroes spent that time infiltrating Jabba's court. Lando secured himself a position as one of Jabba's guards. Luke sent Threepio and Artoo as a "gift" to Jabba with a lightsaber smuggled in Artoo's dome. Leia posed as a bounty hunter delivering Chewbacca. Finally, Luke showed up. It was all pretty well orchestrated and took a while to plan.

7/7/2010 6:04:21 PM

Except for the part where Lando forgot to mention the trap door to the rancor pit.

7/7/2010 6:10:42 PM

Maybe he mentioned it and Luke just didn't give a fuck 'cause he's the Jedi in black.

7/7/2010 6:14:31 PM

obviously that giant door > rancor.

7/7/2010 6:23:26 PM

Quote :

"wtf are you people on about lafta is 100% right People wouldn't consider it a great twist if the twist was Chazz Palminteri 'realizing verbal was bullshitting him.'"

idk if you're being serious or not. That's not even close to the big twist. The twist is that Verbal is Keyser. Additionally, i guess you could add that some or all of what he said was made up. But the real twist is that Verbal is Keyser. If you don't know the deal ahead of time, you don't see it coming. The whole scene with Palminteri seeing the name on the coffee mug, and everything around the room realizing it was all made up was just a way to fill the viewer in. And then, of course, they have the fax of the sketch come through just as he runs past or whatever to really beat it home. and verbal slowly easing out of the limp, and the voice over and what not. Palminteri's character figuring it out or not wouldn't' change the twist. Just how it was revealed to the viewer.

7/7/2010 6:28:07 PM

What? I know. That's what I'm saying.

lafta said the twist was that verbal is keyser

someone else said the twist was that 'verbal was feeding chazz bullshit' but implied that verbal wasn't necessarily keyser, or that chazz didn't know he was keyser, or some shit.

I am agreeing with lafta. maybe i misread a post somewhere.

[Edited on July 7, 2010 at 6:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/7/2010 6:41:08 PM

Quote :

"Most low level drug dealers don't know where the boss lives. Its a matter of protecting your best interests...if lots of people know where you live, its more likely for your enemies to find out. Its possible that Han met Jabba or one of Jabba's associates at a neutral location to receive orders and make payments."

Jabba isn't some drug dealer though, he's more like John Gotti or Pablo Escobar

7/7/2010 6:42:01 PM

^ummm... he was saying Jabba is the boss.

7/7/2010 6:53:37 PM

I know, and I was saying he's a major boss, like the ones I mentioned. Everyone knows where they live.

Even low level drug dealers would know what city their boss lives in.

7/7/2010 6:57:56 PM

better acknowledge my explanation

7/7/2010 6:58:34 PM

I acknowledge the infiltration aspect, but they still said they were going to have to find him, and still gives no excuse for Solo to be on Tatooine in ANH.

Also,
Lando: When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter, we'll contact you
Luke: We'll meet at the rondezvous point on Tatooine.

Well, that was convenient now wasn't it.

7/7/2010 7:10:06 PM

ok look though

there is absolutely nothing suggesting jabba is on tatooine in the theatrical release of episode IV

han's presence there is not a plot hole

7/7/2010 7:12:07 PM

Well not in the context of the first movie on its own. Lucas made it a plot hole in the 3rd movie though.

7/7/2010 7:24:10 PM

well no

'cause jabba could've shown up tatooine long after solo left

7/7/2010 7:26:23 PM

Doesn't seem likely.

Episode 1 also exposes it, which was a terrible movie but still canon.

7/7/2010 7:31:32 PM

wait

interplanetary travel doesn't seem likely

in star wars

7/7/2010 7:34:36 PM

No I mean moving his base of operations in the previous 4 years considering all the stuff he had in that palace.

7/7/2010 7:38:52 PM

maybe he just beamed it down to the planet's surface

7/7/2010 7:39:12 PM

Quote :

"I know, and I was saying he's a major boss, like the ones I mentioned. Everyone knows where they live."

We need you in the Middle East son.

Sounds like you're well-informed.

7/7/2010 9:40:04 PM

You need help locating some middle eastern mafiosos?

7/7/2010 10:40:08 PM

maybe he's got a couple of palaces.

he could do summers in the hamptons and winters in tatooine.

7/7/2010 10:41:28 PM

I've never heard of the Hamptons system.

7/7/2010 10:43:48 PM

Quote :

"The unbelievability of quick interstellar travel doesn't have to do with conceivable propulsion systems; it breaks our current understanding about the nature of the universe. Which is why I thoroughly am able to suspend my disbelief; it's so radically impossible that you just go with it. "

Yeah when I first started learning about relativity and things like the 'twins paradox' it was terribly depressing, the sudden crushing of all my old Star Wars fantasies crafted from the movies, books, and video games I grew up with...

7/8/2010 12:00:34 AM