I would like to stop getting mail altogether. It's all junk

Maybe once a week delivery or something

8/11/2011 10:59:17 PM

Secure electronic mail. Verified by biometrics.

Do away with mail altogether lol

8/12/2011 8:25:43 AM

I only trust my mail to couriers with secure cranial data storage.

8/12/2011 8:43:27 AM

electronic mailboxes that receive by NFC. postal workers can continue to deliver manually and I don't have to worry about spam paper.

8/12/2011 9:41:02 AM

I saw a news story (some evening NBC show I think) about USPS's shutdown of several thousand post offices. People in small towns were going crazy. Some bullshit about their post office being around for decades, being the "staple" of the town, etc. It was pure stupid. In one really small town, where the PO was to be closed, the residents were bitching because that means they'd have to drive 15 minutes to the next town to go to the PO (they'd still have delivery, from that town's PO) What a bunch of whiny batshit crazy turds. First off, how often are you really going to the PO? Secondly, 15 minutes? Really? Bitching about 15 minutes? Where I grew up, you drove at least 15 minutes to get to anything... store, school, PO, etc. Hell, in Raleigh I drive 15 minutes to get to my PO and it's like 5 miles away. Stupid people piss me off.

8/12/2011 10:10:34 AM

Honestly they should just do pickup/dropoff/stamps/sales contracted through places like CVS or Walgreens or grocery stores. It's not a skilled profession, so you really won't be at a disadvantage doing that. Delivery can be the way it is with rural carriers, who are essentially contractors.

8/12/2011 10:19:55 AM

Quote :

"People in small towns were going crazy. Some bullshit about their post office being around for decades, being the "staple" of the town, etc. It was pure stupid."

Small towns, eh?

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/14/1342849/century-post-office-hangs-on.html

8/12/2011 10:23:22 AM

It shouldn't have to be profitable. The benefits of a postal service isn't making some spare change selling stamps, it's about boosting the entire economy by having a stable shipping and communication infrastructure. Same with public transit. The point isn't to turn a profit, it's to reduce the traffic load, reducing commute time and gas expenditure for everyone and getting more longevity out of the roads between repairs. People expecting profits from either as justification for their existence are short sighted morons.

edit: I mean really, do you expect roads to turn a profits? Why not?

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

8/12/2011 10:41:59 AM

Likely the same people who complain that $0.44 is way too much for someone to come to your house, pick up a letter, and deliver it elsewhere.

8/12/2011 10:50:12 AM

Quote :

"Small towns, eh?"

I was referring to what the story was about, not a general view of things.

8/12/2011 2:32:29 PM

Quote :

"stable shipping and communication"

shipping: fedex / ups / dhl / etc.
communication: email / cell phone / facebook / etc.

we have alternatives. let the private sector handle this one. it was good when we needed it, but we just don't anymore.

8/12/2011 3:12:44 PM

The private sector, by definition, is not stable. There are regular booms and busts, companies go under and new ones rise up. Do you want to wait a month to send a package while UPS negotiates a merger or sorts out layoffs? Have you seen the markets the past week? Do you understand the concept of volatility?

Further, do you want the entire sector of something vital like shipping to be profit based, such that what you pay isn't based on the expenses of the service but on how far they can stretch the price elasticity on consumers? Do you know what it actually costs to send a text message? About .00016 cents. Providers make a profit in the thousands of percents off each one because they can get away with it and there's no competition to lower it. Hm yes let's make our national shipping subject to the same.

Do you really think UPS and Fedex are going to keep offering the same prices if the USPS isn't there doing shipping at less-than-profitable prices? You're asking to be gouged just to be consistent with a simplistic anti-government ideology. Right wingers advocating against their own interests? Well I'll be damned.


[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM. Reason : .]

8/12/2011 4:01:40 PM

Do you understand the concept of competition?

Don't answer that - you don't understand the concept. It's not even clear that you understand how businesses operate in the real world. Competition naturally arises in a free market, because people think of better, more efficient ways to operate. When you're operating a huge enterprise like FedEx, your customers don't want there to be any possibility of a lapse in service. If service does lapse, they dump you for another (more reliable) company. Don't believe it? Then you've clearly never worked in customer service, because it happens every day, and most companies in this kind of economy are doing whatever they can to maintain their customer base.

TLDR: people don't put up with shitty service if they're able to find less shitty service at a good value. When the government takes over, you can expect shitty service, especially when they outlaw competition. The government's mistake with USPS was allowing private enterprise to take hold in package/mail delivery - it made it way too obvious how inefficient government actually is.

Quote :

"Further, do you want the entire sector of something vital like shipping to be profit based,"

Abso-fucking-lutely.

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 4:27 PM. Reason : ]

8/12/2011 4:14:12 PM

i'm definitely not a right winger and the public sector for sure isn't a shining example of stability (hence this topic was created). you're assuming we'll wait months for packages and that prices will skyrocket. stop thinking in extremes.

8/12/2011 4:49:32 PM

My cell phone and cable bills haven't been getting any cheaper. Must be the free market at work.

8/12/2011 4:54:50 PM

We don't have a free market. A few companies have that market totally cornered thanks to artificial barriers to entry created by government.

8/12/2011 5:16:44 PM

With or without the USPS, what makes the postal/shipping market any different?

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 5:31 PM. Reason : ]

8/12/2011 5:31:30 PM

Anyone could get a truck and an office and be in business. Obviously, it's a little more complicated than that as the operation gets bigger, but there isn't much keeping someone from saying, "I'll delivery this item to this location for x amount of y."

The problem with government exists on every level. By design, government creates work for itself, which makes it inefficient. A business doesn't want work for the sake of work - they want customers and efficiency. Not making a profit? Trim the fat.

The idea that profit is "bad" or "evil" is incredibly fucking stupid. It's the equivalent of saying that productivity is bad. "Wait, they planned/organized a company, created a good/service that people wanted, and sold it?? THOSE BASTARDS!!!!"

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 5:46 PM. Reason : ]

8/12/2011 5:42:41 PM

I believe the barrier to entry makes it significantly more complicated for new players to enter the market than what you've described.

I don't think anyone has suggested (in this thread) that profits are inherently evil. Str8Foolish's concern seems to be that if the USPS exits the market, we'll be left with essentially two players with largely indistinguishable offerings. Not at all unlike the cell phone market, where prices aren't exactly dropping due to the competition.

...but somehow postal services would be different?

What will happen to low density rural and remote areas that prove unprofitable?

8/12/2011 6:33:10 PM

Quote :

"Do you want to wait a month to send a package while UPS negotiates a merger or sorts out layoffs?"

Sounds like we have a closet anti-public sector union guy on our hands. I mean, we wouldn't want anything to interrupt that unparalleled government efficiency, would we?

8/12/2011 7:35:30 PM

You'd almost think that exact thing didn't happen 14 years ago.

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 7:41 PM. Reason : (waiting a month while stuff happens)]

8/12/2011 7:40:18 PM

Quote :

" My cell phone and cable bills haven't been getting any cheaper. Must be the free market at work."

actually, it is. it's called the cost of living and that does tend to go up. a dollar today isn't what it used to be, but you're not exactly making $0.12 an hour either. the costs of providing new services and marketing and advertising increases the cost to the customer too. it's a common business practice. also, companies always try to beat last year's profits every year. don't expect to pay a nickel for a Twinkie like back in the good ole days...that's a pipe dream.

8/12/2011 10:37:32 PM

Get rid of USPS, then try to send your grandmother a card for 44c. Ain't gonna happen.

8/12/2011 11:16:05 PM

^^ and, get ready for it to get more expensive as libruls try to explain to us why yet another service is a "right", so we have to pay more for it to make it more affordable

8/12/2011 11:48:45 PM

The Crabtree Post Office is closed permanently. That seemed like a high volume location (probably jacked up rent forced it out)

It sucks because I guess I got spoiled living within walking distance of the Avent Ferry one, and moving over near Crabtree was hoping to have one close by. (I use a PO Box for business)

I guess my options are.

1) Use home address for business (do not really want to do that, but its convenient)
2) Keep Driving to Avent Ferry
3) Open one at the Method Rd Station (slightly closer but the station is completely horrible and has no parking)
4) Get one at a private business (like the UPS store that is walking distance from my new house, but does not have 24 hour access, probably more expensive)

It looks like the beginning decline of USPS is going to be closing of a bunch of retail locations, and Saturday delivery getting the axe. Eventually they will have subcontractors providing a lot of their services for less money.

8/12/2011 11:57:25 PM

Quote :

"and, get ready for it to get more expensive as libruls try to explain to us why yet another service is a "right", so we have to pay more for it to make it more affordable"

Yes liberals are really counting on knuckle-draggers like you with 3 dollars to pitch in for their MASSIVE PROGRAMS

8/13/2011 8:15:52 AM

Quote :

"Eventually they will have subcontractors providing a lot of their services for less money."

If you're going to have government services, this is how it should be done by default. Why does some bureaucrat get to pick an arbitrary salary and create a permanent public position? Subcontractors should be bidding down the price. That competition helps keep prices under control.

8/13/2011 12:21:42 PM

Quote :

" Subcontractors should be bidding down the price. That competition helps keep prices under control. "

Sounds like you've never been part of a bid process...

who chooses the bids? Do you just always go with the lowest price?

I'm not sure how i feel about the USPS though, they served the purpose once upon a time, but they are obsolete really. The only time i've ever had to send a letter is when doing so on behalf of my parents because they don't use online bill paying when it's available.

For gov. i believe Bill Maher got it mostly right when he said "Government isn't about turning a profit, It's about taking care of the things that shouldn't have to turn a profit." OTOH, the gov. of Alaska collects so much money from leasing to oil companies tehy don't charge taxes, why can't this work nationally? Why not have GSEs be things that actually CAN turn a profit and keep the tax rates really low?

There are many ways to skin this cat, one of the worse is having "hope" that people will somehow do the right thing because of a nebulous idea of "profit motive."

[Edited on August 13, 2011 at 8:49 PM. Reason : ]

8/13/2011 8:46:03 PM

To interject here again, you may think the USPS is useless, but they provide a lot of roles. All the major books (Newsweek, BusinessWeek, Hollywood Reporter, Billboard, etc) go through the USPS. While e-mail and online bill pay are rising, letters, especially from businesses, are still a huge market. Fucking FedEx uses USPS to deliver packages locally after they are shipped to the local hub. Also good luck getting the major private players to set up local hubs in the middle of buttfuck nowhere. The USPS provides a crucial role in ensuring that the mail reaches all over the country. They are also facing a huge problem with a Congress that is absolutely fucking them sideways. Congress pulled $50-75billion from their budget, and the postal service is fighting for it back, but will be lucky to even get $5billion back let alone the ~$8billion to cover the shortfall this year.

What really needs to happen is a revamp of the postal service. Bureaucracy has led to a large amount of inflation in the budget of the post office, especially as mailing standards (especially for the major books) have gotten more strict without a good cause. Also, inevitably, Saturday service will be cut out. While this will hurt, it will cut down the budget considerably.

[Edited on August 13, 2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason : .]

8/13/2011 10:39:18 PM

Yeah I have mixed feelings about usps.

They have a bloated inneficent operation, but they are also cheaper than any other service. Fedex & UPS do not have to visit every single residence in the united states every day. They only deliver higher margin packages primarily to businesses.

8/13/2011 10:41:53 PM

Fact of the matter is that the vast majority of rural bumfuck towns are completely unprofitable to deliver mail to, which is why private mailers tend to use USPS at that level of delivery. Ironically, it's conservatives in these bumfuck towns who would just love to see the USPS disappear.

8/24/2011 3:39:13 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/in-internet-age-postal-service-struggles-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html?_r=1&hp

Hopefully, they kill this bitch. Worst bureaucracy ever. Sell it off to anyone who will buy. I don't know if I should be surprised or not that they are unionized. Their offices have the dumbest, laziest workers possible.

9/5/2011 12:42:59 AM

I had a very bad experience with USPS regarding an item damaged in overseas shipping. It was shipped insured, and yet I never was able to get them to pay a cent for it. I finally pretty much gave up. Fuck them; I'll never ship anything USPS again.

9/5/2011 1:11:50 AM

The usps is tax payer subsidized spam. cut mail delivery down to once a week. replace all small town post offices with grocery store drop boxes and the like.

It doesnt need to be profitable, but it doesnt need to waste a shitload of money like it does now. theres nothing i get ever thats so urgent it cant wait a week to be delivered. Anything that does need immediate delivery should be done electronically or can be cost extra (either through ups/fedex or through usps certified mail or something).

[Edited on September 5, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason : a]

9/5/2011 11:38:28 AM

The Avent Ferry post office is the only one in Raleigh where the staff is not rude as hell.

9/5/2011 2:40:09 PM

^qft, the older bald dude that works at that office is super nice

9/7/2011 1:30:31 PM

Avent Ferry post office does have a friendly staff.
The last package I shipped from there took over a month to make it to Ohio though.
Note to self...Always get insurance and delivery confirmation. Ship via FedEx and get real package tracking.

[Edited on September 7, 2011 at 1:42 PM. Reason : l]

9/7/2011 1:41:45 PM

Simple fix: Mail should be a choice of the people. If you want mail, tell the PO you want mail. If you don't want mail, tell the PO you don't want mail.

9/9/2011 2:50:23 PM

I've had good service at the Avent Ferry, Wrenn, and Century Building post offices.

I've also had my fair share of problems with FedEx and UPS.

At least with respect service and product, I don't think USPS is really any worse or better than FedEx or UPS.

9/9/2011 4:52:06 PM

Quote :

"It doesnt need to be profitable, but it doesnt need to waste a shitload of money like it does now. theres nothing i get ever thats so urgent it cant wait a week to be delivered. Anything that does need immediate delivery should be done electronically or can be cost extra (either through ups/fedex or through usps certified mail or something). "

That's great for you but there are still a lot of people/businesses who use USPS to deliver bills/payments. Are you suggesting a one day pick-up and delivery schedule? Why do you hate small businesses/the elderly/ poor people?

9/9/2011 6:39:15 PM

Quote :

"^qft, the older bald dude that works at that office is super nice"

If all usps employees were nice as that fellow they would not be bankrupt....dude trys to sell you stamps, extra postage, delivery confirm, pretty much anything you could need.

9/9/2011 10:11:47 PM

The USPS could be saved very easily. Just privatize the damn thing. Have congress fix the price of a stamp, negotiate a universal service agreement, and sell off the company. The new owners will hopefully break the union in right-to-work states, slash wages, close unprofitable offices, lay off some of the workforce, and return the profits to investors. Society at large prospers.

9/9/2011 11:23:45 PM

Yeah, let's privatize it and fuck over all those in rural areas, Alaska, Hawaii, and those in non-profitable areas. The post office has room to cut some budget, but if you read my posts from before, it is not exactly all their fault and privatizing is going backwards in terms of service.

The USPS is the only carrier required by law to deliver to everywhere in the US, is the primary carrier of a large amount of the print industry, is the primary carrier of almost all domestic mail, and is the local deliverer for a lot of Fed Ex's mail. As I sad before,

Quote :

"Get rid of USPS, then try to send your grandmother a card for 44c. Ain't gonna happen. "

[Edited on September 10, 2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason : .]

9/10/2011 12:36:04 AM

There are many models of government provision of service. Nationalization is not the only way. I specifically said "negotiate a universal service agreement." Your grandmother will still get her letter. All privatization would do is put someone at the table that cares about costs and allow the postal service to get creative at solving problems, rather than just throwing overpriced union labor at it, bilking the taxpayer in the process.

[Edited on September 10, 2011 at 1:34 AM. Reason : .,.]

9/10/2011 1:33:18 AM

Repeal or modify the 2006 law.

Quote :

"the Postal Service has been asking the Congress to alter the payment schedule of a mandate in a 2006 law that, unlike any other federal agency, requires the Postal Service to prefund retiree health benefits in amounts approximating $5.5 billion. In addition, the Postal Service has asked to gain access to $50 to $75 billion in overpayments it has made to the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and a $6.9 billion it has overpaid to the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). Since inception in 2006, the Postal Service has paid some $20.9 billion into the Retiree Health Benefit Trust Fund. Under current law, the Postal Service is scheduled to continue to make $5.5 to $5.8 billion in payments up to and including 2016. "

http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2011/pr11_052.pdf

Should be an easy fix, but the GOP wants to shovel more money to FEDEX, UPS et. al.

9/10/2011 1:29:49 PM

I think the USPS is a remarkable organization and is extremely successful at doing what it was created to do. I like Bill Maher's take on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aitvFZTOrp4

There is a very legitimate question though about whether we still need the USPS given current communications technology and private parcel companies. I am open to the idea of scaling back the postal service and reinvesting the money in providing broadband to un-served and under-served areas. Perhaps we start by scaling back delivery to once per week and increase the number of people served by each post office (perhaps cut the number of post offices in half).

9/10/2011 3:53:57 PM

No, those other federal agencies should be required to find their pensions too, just as every private firm does.

9/10/2011 5:26:22 PM

Why do that when you can lie and worry about getting the money later? That's the principle our entire financial system and government is built on.

9/10/2011 6:13:03 PM

I can't believe liberals aren't calling out the stupid suggestion that USPS should save themselves by not funding their pension.

That kind of attitude is why liberal dreams such as SS became insolvent in the first place.

9/10/2011 7:26:12 PM

Social Security has a $22,000,000,000,000 surplus.

9/10/2011 8:15:20 PM