yeah, GS pay isn't that great for the most part, although the retirements can be pretty attractive.

11/29/2010 8:43:35 PM

Quote :

"OK, in fairness, the closest thing we've had to a popular revolt has been savaged by much of the media, the political establishment, the academic world and popular culture. Zero focus was given to any merit their points might have and, instead all the energy these organizations had was dedicated towards discrediting not the ideas, but the legitimacy of the Tea Party."

lol you're going to blame the academic world but not the billionaire Koch brothers who actually hijacked the movement

11/29/2010 8:49:09 PM

I definitely agree with the point that Congress should take a pay cut.

11/29/2010 9:02:08 PM

Yeah I mean what the fuck right

It's egregious

11/29/2010 9:03:14 PM

^^ I'm not "blaming" anything, I'm just making an observation. It isn't like the opponents of Tea Party policies waited until they found out the Koch brothers got involved and then went after it.

Quote :

"Salaries aren't bad but they aren't great either compared to the private sector."

This is true, but GS employees are virtually never fired, have excellent retirement benefits, have rather nice vacation options and pretty solid benefits. No, you're not going to get rich, but people stick around for 20+ years with government jobs for a reason.

11/29/2010 9:08:10 PM

As far as engineering jobs the gap in pay isn't made up for with FERS + TSP. You can take the gap in pay and apply it directly to a 401k and you'll end up MUCH better off with the private job. The vacation time isn't anywhere as close to as good as what is available in the private sector, and the portion of your insurance that the government picks up in most cases doesn't seem to be as good either.

The engineers in the private sector really make out well compared to their government counterparts I only suppose because they have a more direct effect on a companys bottom line. All the other jobs SG&A, HR, etc I can see where the government job looks pretty comfy.

11/29/2010 9:24:52 PM

As a local gov't. employee, i'm pissed off that the feds are just now considering this. There are local units who haven't had raises in 5+ years....

11/29/2010 9:28:42 PM

Quote :

"(why not pay cuts?)"

11/29/2010 9:49:41 PM

http://www.opm.gov/oca/payagent/2009/2009PayAgentReport.pdf

Quote :

"When the existing locality payments (i.e., those paid in 2009) are included in the comparison, the overall remaining pay disparity as of March 2009 was (145.82/119.40-1) X 100, or 22.13 percent."

That is what the private sector is making more than the GS folks.

If you don't believe me on the pay gap vs FERS/TSP, take that 22%, plug it into a compound interest calculator. See what you have after 30 years, then realize that when you retire you'll likely be able to take out 50-100% more than what you'll receive with FERS/TSP.

11/29/2010 9:52:31 PM

I don't understand how salaries weren't already frozen. NC state employees have been frozen now for 3+ years. Even the teachers aren't getting their guaranteed experience raises.

11/29/2010 9:57:51 PM

everyone relax. im sure those in charge of the TSA scanner rollout will get the bonuses they're due.

11/29/2010 10:01:47 PM

Quote :

"lol you're going to blame the academic world but not the billionaire Koch brothers who actually hijacked the movement"

I wouldn't say they hijacked it, it was a headless movement. They dumped money into it, but they at no point had any control over what the movement became.

11/29/2010 11:01:15 PM

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/11/30/hoyer-calls-for-military-pay-freeze/

Quote :

"In a call that may well tip the scales in favor of serious cuts to the entire defense budget, senior House Democrat Steny Hoyer called today for active duty troops to take a pay freeze, just as their civilian counterparts will"

Let the real rioting commence!

11/30/2010 9:41:16 PM

I see no problem with that. The more difficult it is for the state to obtain soldiers the better.

11/30/2010 9:42:51 PM

Lets not fund the federal government, we dont need them, dont pass a temp. funding bill (like for a month so when the teabaggers come in they can cut cut cut cut cut cut all those social programs that they cant cut).

12/3 is D-Day!

Also, the average pay is wrong, everytime I read something about it it goes up again, like now I think it is at $125,000. That is a GS 14 and the feds only go up to a GS 15. There are alot more GS 13 and below than 14 and above...of course Congress and the White House all make more than $125,000 but they are on a different pay scale.

The pension is pretty bad for FERs, most will work until they die.

[Edited on November 30, 2010 at 10:16 PM. Reason : w]

11/30/2010 10:06:20 PM

Quote :

"(why not pay cuts?)"

because if you actually look at the pay tables, and factor in the employee's level of education and what people with similar levels of education make in the private sector, it's actually more equal and in some cases fed employees get underpaid. i know a couple immigration lawyers who were in private practice and took a large paycut when they went into federal service.

and we all took stats, right? wonder what sort of weight the millions of low-wage unskilled jobs in retail and other services put on this?

also, this is apples and oranges. the job done by an accountant at the treasury isn't like the work done by one at h&r block. i don't work for the fed, but i do work in local gov. and the job description I have is so different from it's private counterpart, i'd probably need to retrain should i leave this position (but i like what i do, so fuck it).

and how many of you badass engineers work for federal contractors, anyway? seems like i remember at least a couple of our wonderful tww libertarians/"independents" working for some sort of defense industry contractors.

here in NoVa, it's common wisdom that, if you want to be stuck in middle income, work for the federal gov. if you want to REALLY take home the $$$, be a contractor.

Quote :

"everyone relax. im sure those in charge of the TSA scanner rollout will get the bonuses they're due."

just like [insert corrupt/stupid private sector employee here] right!?!?!?! but don't worry, i'm sure it's just the government that's keeping an awesome engineer or what ever the fuck you are from being a true atlas, right?

i know someone's going to post that flawed usa today article on this, so i'll go ahead and mention it doesn't factor education level at all.

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 6:42 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 6:34:03 PM

Look at total compensation and not strictly salary. Pure salary may be lower in many instances, but total compensation is another story.

12/7/2010 8:20:11 PM

See my post from 11/29. At least for engineering jobs total compensation on a comparative basis is still lower for a Fed job.

12/7/2010 10:05:11 PM

.

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:34:19 PM

I saw that, but total fed employees vs. private sector I'd bet it's lower.

12/8/2010 8:25:48 AM

^read this thread

message_topic.aspx?topic=603345&page=1

I specifically like

http://epi.3cdn.net/8808ae41b085032c0b_8um6bh5ty.pdf

12/8/2010 8:49:48 AM

this pay freeze means nothing.

Every elected official should take a pay cut until unemployment is back to 5% and the deficit starts shrinking.



/fantasty land

12/8/2010 9:19:13 AM

Quote :

"because if you actually look at the pay tables, and factor in the employee's level of education and what people with similar levels of education make in the private sector, it's actually more equal and in some cases fed employees get underpaid. i know a couple immigration lawyers who were in private practice and took a large paycut when they went into federal service. and we all took stats, right? wonder what sort of weight the millions of low-wage unskilled jobs in retail and other services put on this? also, this is apples and oranges. the job done by an accountant at the treasury isn't like the work done by one at h&r block. i don't work for the fed, but i do work in local gov. and the job description I have is so different from it's private counterpart, i'd probably need to retrain should i leave this position (but i like what i do, so fuck it). and how many of you badass engineers work for federal contractors, anyway? seems like i remember at least a couple of our wonderful tww libertarians/"independents" working for some sort of defense industry contractors. here in NoVa, it's common wisdom that, if you want to be stuck in middle income, work for the federal gov. if you want to REALLY take home the $$$, be a contractor."

It is past time for Feds to be getting a pay freeze. State government has had to deal with all of these factors for a long time and have been getting pay cuts (furloughs etc.). Time for the Feds to suck up and feel the pain for something that was ultimately their responsibility.

12/8/2010 9:35:27 AM

You heard it here first: it was federal employees' fault that we're in a deficit.

12/8/2010 10:15:19 AM

yes. their continued waste and ineffectiveness has caused us to spend more money than we should.

12/8/2010 10:29:15 AM

No it was the federal governments fault however. To this point it has been state government employees getting fucked it is past time for all government employees to feel the pain of their employers ineptness.

12/8/2010 10:30:01 AM

I'd rather they just fire the 80% of the federal workforce that is inefficient.

12/8/2010 10:46:33 AM

Quote :

"i know someone's going to post that flawed usa today article on this, so i'll go ahead and mention it doesn't factor education level at all."

I prefer the Reason article which compares government employees in 2008 to those same employees in 2000 and finds that total real compensation has risen something like 60% over that time. Or is it unfair to compare government employees to themselves?

But you do have to keep in mind that the statistics are skewed. Most states do not have a compensation problem, so averaging them in makes the problem look better than it is. Far better to only include in the statistics states that have centralized state employee unions.

[Edited on December 8, 2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason : /.]

12/8/2010 10:50:07 AM

Quote :

"LoneSnark: I prefer the Reason article which compares government employees in 2008 to those same employees in 2000 and finds that total real compensation has risen something like 60% over that time."

Why has real compensation risen so much?

Is it the baby boomers all moving up in to the maximumish pay range at the same time?

I don't understand how they coulda pulled that off otherwise.

12/8/2010 10:58:44 AM

the same way ethanol produces managed to get paid far more in 2008 than in 2000: assertive lobbying by a special interest group, namely government employees and their unions.

12/8/2010 11:30:14 AM

Quote :

"At least for engineering jobs total compensation on a comparative basis is still lower for a Fed job. "

In my limited experience with the USACE and NAVFAC, the federal government engineers aren't as good and don't work as many hours as private sector. I'm not saying there aren't good Fed engineers, because I've met a few exceptional ones. But on the whole, there seem to be a lot more poor to mediocre engineers in federal jobs than in the private sector. That may have something to do with the underperforming engineers in the private sector being the first to be let go when things turn south; I don't know. It may also just happen to be the engineering sectors I've been exposed to.

[Edited on December 8, 2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason : the military has a knack for putting people with specific expertise into unrelated fields]

12/8/2010 12:57:39 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of the Research Scientist engineers. I guess I forgot that the DoD is a huge place with all sorts of "engineers".

12/9/2010 7:11:38 AM