^ after using this for a few more hours, it's amazing... why would anyone want a laptop without this feature?

full screen apps automatically creating their own spaces, that you can swipe between or jump to from swiping up to mission control is the most efficient task switching method I've come across yet.

[Edited on July 21, 2011 at 5:54 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2011 5:53:47 PM

Quote :

"This mission control thing is dumb. Every time I use it the window groups are in different areas so you have to search for them. They change position based upon the last window you had open. That's silly."

Agreed, but if you go to System Prefs -> Mission Control, you can remove the checkbox from "Automatically rearrange spaces based on most recent use" and it will stop that. Why they thought to make that the default behavior, I'll never know.

7/21/2011 8:34:32 PM

Quote :

"The apps resuming their state after a reboot is pretty bad-ass too. I can see this getting some people in trouble,"

What do you mean?



Also, what's this about all the multitouch gestures being gone? I thought that was the direction that OS-X was moving further towards, not away from?

7/21/2011 11:11:58 PM

THere are more multitouch gestures, not less.

And what do you mean what do i mean?

Let's say i have safari open to a TWW window, with a post half typed out, iCal open looking at an appointment, and Preview open with a picture up. If I reboot, and log in, all these apps are in this exact same state.

This could get someone in trouble because they may have a personal email/website/whatever up, shut down their computer, then take it to a meeting, power it on, and expect a blank slate, but a picture of _____ shows up.

7/21/2011 11:32:40 PM

They're not gone, they're just...really muted by default. Stupid shit like 2 finger swiping is the exact same as 3 finger swiping by default, which is just a waste of potential. If you're gonna say that your OS is all geared up for trackpads and multitouch gestures, go all out and make the most of it.

Luckily, there are several 3rd party apps (such as BetterTouchTool) that allow for you to customize individual gestures to have complete control over everything, but IMO, it's just dumb that such 3rd party tools are practically required in order to get the most out of the new features. All the coolness should be enabled from the start and shouldn't require 3rd party software to unlock.

7/21/2011 11:32:58 PM

Quote :

"his could get someone in trouble because they may have a personal email/website/whatever up, shut down their computer, then take it to a meeting, power it on, and expect a blank slate, but a picture of _____ shows up."

haha, ok, yeah. just a matter of not being an idiot.

7/21/2011 11:34:40 PM

Quote :

"Stupid shit like 2 finger swiping is the exact same as 3 finger swiping by default, which is just a waste of potential."

Wait what? I just tried that here, by default, 2 finger does things like go forward or back in the app I'm in (safari in this case), where as 3 finger switches me between desktops (so much better than ctrl-arrow).

Actually, one thing I really don't like right now is the reduced contrast/saturation in the title bars. The window I have open right now, glancing at the title bar looks almost like an inactive window from Snow Leopard

[Edited on July 21, 2011 at 11:57 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/21/2011 11:55:21 PM

I've heard this kind of sucks from a few people, gonna stick with Snow Leopard. the look of it doesn't really appeal to me anyways.

7/22/2011 12:39:32 AM

Quote :

"Wait what? I just tried that here, by default, 2 finger does things like go forward or back in the app I'm in (safari in this case), where as 3 finger switches me between desktops (so much better than ctrl-arrow)."

I'll admit 99% of my Lion usage has been on a Developer's Preview copy (I'm reinstalling retail on my MBA now) and I haven't had a chance to look at what's really changed, but in the hour or so I've messed with the retail version on my Mini, my major complaint is still very valid. They should still give you the option to customize gestures without installing 3rd party tools. I've already gotten used to squeezing my fingers together to close windows and three figures swipes to delete something. That sort of level of customization just isn't available without installing something like BetterTouchTool. When I read about how Lion was gonna have even more support for gestures, the first thing I thought was "Cool, now I can finally get rid of BTT, but it's just not the case. I guess I just don't represent the average user, but I really don't see the point in touting gestures so much and then having them do so little.

Quote :

"I've heard this kind of sucks from a few people, gonna stick with Snow Leopard. the look of it doesn't really appeal to me anyways."

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/21/the-perils-of-bashing-an-os-youve-never-used/

7/22/2011 1:07:35 AM

Quote :

"That sort of level of customization just isn't available without installing something like BetterTouchTool. When I read about how Lion was gonna have even more support for gestures, the first thing I thought was "Cool, now I can finally get rid of BTT, but it's just not the case. I guess I just don't represent the average user, but I really don't see the point in touting gestures so much and then having them do so little. "

I disagree that this should be included. That would require an arcane amount of options in the pref panes that most people don't care about.

The fact that your need can be filled by a 3rd party is the idea situation. The people who want it can get it, while the UI stays clean for everyone else.

If BTT were blocked from working, or couldn't work, it'd be a different situation. It's good for 3rd party developers to be able to flourish.

7/22/2011 1:14:22 AM

Yeah, I guess it's probably a bit much to ask for that level of control. I just wouldn't have minded a few more options, but I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't see why they couldn't have met somewhere in the middle though.

7/22/2011 1:54:06 AM

I do notice some wonkyness in 2/3 finger detection. Sometimes it thinks i'm using 2 fingers when i'm clearly using 3 (that's what she said...).

7/22/2011 2:00:05 AM

Quote :

"THere are more multitouch gestures, not less."

3 finger bottom page/top page is gone.

Also to show desktop you now have to do this wonky 3 finger expand motion which just feels awkward. I wish you could actually CHOOSE what gesture to use when.

I just feel like functionality is removed when you take away what things did before and replace them with what Apple thinks is better. I wouldn't mind if they suggested new motions but let you keep the old ones. Redoing everything and not letting you use what you used before isn't good.

Apple users will now be sitting and trying to figure out how to do what and if they have to be productive at that moment in time everything gets frustrating.

7/22/2011 8:19:00 AM

Quote :

"Also to show desktop you now have to do this wonky 3 finger expand motion which just feels awkward. I wish you could actually CHOOSE what gesture to use when. "

I thought I saw an option to change which things do what in the mission control preferences. I'll double check when I'm near my computer...

7/22/2011 9:16:58 AM

No when you go into the trackpad settings both Launchpad and Show Desktop are locked to one motion. You can't change them. They're all pretty much locked and the only changes you can really make are from 3 fingers to 4.

7/22/2011 10:04:01 AM

I wonder if and how Automatic Termination might work together with Fast User Switching to make resource management less of a concern. It would be awesome to know that you could fast switch, and any auto save apps that are open in another user's account can be auto terminated if need be.

7/22/2011 1:11:22 PM

^^Like I said, BetterTouchTool is practically required if you even remotely care about gesture customization.

7/22/2011 2:53:33 PM

Yeah it's just sad that Apple completely ditches functionality that used to be there in favor of what they think is better. I don't mind them changing everything but at least give us the option to customize it back to how we like it without having to download a 3rd party app.

7/22/2011 3:45:10 PM

My Xcode productivity got a bit fucked by the removal of all the previous gestures. Three finger swipe up to switch to/fro src and header is something I used quite often. And two fingers replaced three for navigating, which I expected. Now instead of headers I end up in Misson Control.

7/22/2011 11:08:53 PM

overall the upgrade has been positive but a few major flaws

- displayport doesn't out put audio which means me outputting to the TV right now is useless unless i want to be near my laptop
- fullscreen apps and how a second monitor is handled is complete crap

7/23/2011 12:02:10 PM

^ did you try going to the sound preferences and changing the audio out to the displayport?

7/23/2011 1:00:35 PM

it's not listed in there - lots of forum posts confirming it was an issue in beta that never got resolved

7/23/2011 9:52:57 PM

Does your TV let you select mini phono/RCA as the audio source for HDMI?

7/23/2011 10:01:02 PM

i'm in a rented furnished apartment and haven't checked but i'm assuming it does not

the solution for now is to use my wife's macbook pro that hasn't been upgraded

7/23/2011 10:06:07 PM

Quote :

"- displayport doesn't out put audio which means me outputting to the TV right now is useless unless i want to be near my laptop"

Mine works like a champ. You do have to manually switch it over (I did it in VLC instead of settings) but I used it yesterday to watch a couple of movies. You did have audio out capabilities before Lion, right?

7/24/2011 10:40:49 AM

before lion it worked fine - using VLC as well - mbp 13" 2011 model - can't imagine it's a coincidence that others online are experiencing the same problem but i haven't really read anywhere where someone said it worked

i am using the now discontinued/illegal displayport -> hdmi cable but it's always worked fine and it wasn't working in lion beta prior to the hdmi group came down on the cable

i use a displayport to hdmi dapter at work and i'll be able to check that later today

7/24/2011 6:52:34 PM

only this that sucks for me is my microsoft mouse now scrolls in revers and has lost he function of the forward/back buttons

7/24/2011 7:14:02 PM

ive noticed some bugs with opening .avi files in quicktime. kind of annoying.

7/24/2011 7:21:53 PM

Quote :

"my microsoft mouse"

Well there's your problem!

7/24/2011 8:37:54 PM

Quote :

"i use a displayport to hdmi dapter at work and i'll be able to check that later today"

works fine with the adapter - only with the single cord does it fail it seems

7/24/2011 9:34:06 PM

lol @ lack of key repeat, despite there being a key repeat slider.

While fixed with a simple terminal command, I find it slightly odd to think people use foreign characters more often.

7/24/2011 9:41:22 PM

Quote :

"only this that sucks for me is my microsoft mouse now scrolls in revers and has lost he function of the forward/back buttons"

You should be able to change that in the mouse preferences.

7/24/2011 9:48:58 PM

Quote :

"works fine with the adapter - only with the single cord does it fail it seems"

Yeah I only use the adapter so no idea if mine would work with the actual cable. Since yours is working with the adapter, any chance that the actual cable has gone bad? I realize that others are reporting issues but I've learned there's a lot of really stupid mac users so it wouldn't surprise me to learn there's a lot of people not changing anything in the settings.

7/25/2011 10:47:25 AM

So Lion broke compatibility with pretty much every NAS out there. My NAS is an expensive paperweight until they issue a firmware update. I wish I had known that before "upgrading" and I would've held off.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388928,00.asp

7/25/2011 5:34:45 PM

Quote :

"lol @ lack of key repeat, despite there being a key repeat slider. While fixed with a simple terminal command, I find it slightly odd to think people use foreign characters more often."

I don't know. Other than typing FuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUU! or OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ONE!11111 when was the last time you used key repeat for something? Accented characters on the other hand, is a question I got all the time in support.

7/26/2011 12:17:11 PM

OSX has been extremely buggy and slow after upgrading. Everything seems less responsive and it tends to freeze up way more. I can only imagine what it's like on a computer with a slower processor.

7/26/2011 12:45:24 PM

^ Damn I feel stupid. I've been wondering how you organized Launchpad and never even thought to treat it like iOS. I can't believe it took me this long to actually think hard enough to figure that out.

7/26/2011 5:59:33 PM

^^ what machine did you put it on. my 2010 mini does fine except some slowness with startup/shutdown, but then again i have the base model.

7/26/2011 7:40:37 PM

My Lion install was slow for the first day or 2 on my MBP, because Spotlight was still trying to index everything. Once that was done, it was smooth sailing.

7/26/2011 7:41:44 PM

2010 Macbook Pro. Things just seem jerky and less responsive. Most of the time I'm running parallels so maybe there's bugs still to be worked out but everything has been really slow since I upgraded. I'm seeing random spikes from the kernel process that severely inhibits OS responsiveness that I never saw before upgrading.

7/26/2011 7:43:36 PM

^IIRC, Parallels was causing some big issues. They were supposed to be working overtime on an update.

7/26/2011 9:07:00 PM

^^ i also have a 2010 MBP, and parallels is generally always open.

You could have some other issue if you are noticing those slowdowns.

I have 4GB of RAM btw.

7/26/2011 10:48:31 PM

Me too. I'll keep watching and see what's causing the slow downs. Hopefully a Parallels update will fix it. Although the heavy kernal process I'm more worried about. Indexing is does and there doesn't seem to be a correlation between the kernal process and parallels. It just goes crazy A LOT more than before Lion.

7/26/2011 11:25:16 PM

Does it beachball or just stall?

It could be overheating maybe (proc temporarily throttles down)?

I also noticed that if a background program is actually doing something, while you're typing, there's a tiny blip when OS X tries to do a text autocorrect, is this what you're noticing?

7/26/2011 11:33:55 PM

Well sometimes typing will get 3-4 letters behind if the kernel process is up high and I can barely do anything. Everything pretty much freezes. I might just be trying to do too much at once. Haha.

7/26/2011 11:40:28 PM

Do you see anything wonky in Console.app?

I'd recommend keeping it open where you can see it, and seeing if anything dumps out on it when it stalls.

I've seen that happen when there was junk data on a plist (on a hackintosh...) for the network interface, and OS X would occasionally look for a network interface that doesn't exist.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 11:54 PM. Reason : ]

7/26/2011 11:53:51 PM

Interesting. Thanks! I'll monitor it tomorrow while working.

7/26/2011 11:59:59 PM

how to i take a screen shot with osx?

7/27/2011 12:09:45 AM

Quote :

"My Lion install was slow for the first day or 2 on my MBP, because Spotlight was still trying to index everything. Once that was done, it was smooth sailing."

This.

7/27/2011 12:10:15 AM

^^

cmd-shift-3

cmd-shift-4

cmd-shift-4 then press spacebar

These all puts files on your Desktop

cmd-control-shift-3/4 will put it on your clip board (so you can copy/paste it into an email for example)

7/27/2011 12:13:11 AM