because no one reads the last post:

Quote :

"I'm not advocating against monogamy, but I think it's going to be impossible for me to find someone who meets 100% of my needs"

based on this thread, i think you're right...you'll never meet someone who will put up with 100% of your crazy and you'd definitely need that to find someone willing to stay with you for life

if it makes you feel better to put it into words as if he doesn't meet your "needs," go for it

7/28/2011 1:10:23 PM

Quote :

"true. But if a large group of people are all known polyamorists, its a lot easier than meeting someone randomly, getting to know and like them and then pulling out the "oh hey, btw, I'm not going to only date you""

I think it's fine and dandy for you. I mean, if that's what you like. Personally, I think it takes the challenge out of the game. Would you really be interested is something that's given to you for free and you didn't have to earn it?

7/28/2011 1:14:26 PM

Quote :

"Well, that's what most boys want and thats what the boys push for. She just says "okay". It's dangerous because they don't know about the other guys."

That's what most guys want because most guys are socially inept, and as such, are very needy/jealous/clingy. Yes, they'd be easy to turn into a boyfriend, but they aren't a high value boyfriend. They try to date the first female that is nice to them and puts out.

Quote :

"I'm not in it just for the sex. If I was, then I would be an expert at picking up guys at bars. As it is, I like sleeping with people I know because they're cool and I can expect the sex to be a lot better because they know me. "

This is an antiquated view. There are plenty of cool guys out there not looking for anything serious. You don't have to give it up right there and then. You can get to know them without making them part of some weird love triangle. You still form a personal connection with that person, you just don't aim to make it exclusive.

Point is, I don't see the point of restricting yourself to 2-3 partners or whatever. I agree with your original point that you get "better, more consistent returns" when you're playing the field. This is what a lot of guys do, and you can do it to.

7/28/2011 1:14:30 PM

Quote :

"Monogamous relationships have always been super stressful for me because I tend to put a lot of myself into them and I end up making assumptions or having certain expectations of the other person that they don't actually ever fulfill."

this may be an issue.

are you expecting too much from your partner?
maybe you are going for the completely wrong type?
or maybe you are giving too much of yourself (yes thats an issue, no one should ever lose their identity to a relationship)?


and also
i have no qualms with polygamory at all.
so my questions may be completely off base and that lifestyle really is more suited for you.
just a thought.

however i think i'd find it more stressful to have more than several partners as opposed to one.

i think it would be hard to grow emotionally and mentally with someone unless you have a really close bond...

however i can't say i know for certain, the only reference i have are my wild child days which were fun, but im totally over it.
i do not want to date again.

and i don't really see how you can have a secure relationship with someone who is having the exact same relationship with someone else.
does that make any sense?



but in the end it's just preferences man, preferences.



[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:20 PM. Reason : xvcxvxcv]

7/28/2011 1:17:26 PM

Quote :

"i do not want to date again"

but you said...

7/28/2011 1:20:06 PM

lol

7/28/2011 1:20:42 PM

Quote :

"and i don't really see how you can have a secure relationship with someone who is having the exact same relationship with someone else. does that make any sense? "

But the point is no relationship is ever exactly the same. You get different things from different partners simply because no 2 people are ever alike. And the relationship is pretty secure simply because you know that if they're not getting what they need from you, they can get it elsewhere, and the same for you.

also in re: giving too much to one relationship

Quote :

"I think part of the problem is that I like sex so when my options are between seeing my bf and having sex with him versus seeing a friend and not having sex with them, then I usually choose the sex option. Which means I end up spending a lot of time with just one person (if doing the monogamy thing)."

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:27 PM. Reason : dd]

7/28/2011 1:24:51 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, when I was first making friends with a lot of poly people, it seemed to me like there was a lot of drama going on. And there is. I think it's inevitable because there are going to be people who don't care about other people's feelings or people who don't tell the truth and there will be some just plain assholes. I'm trying to stay away from those people."

At this point it's just funny.

You know where I would go if I were looking to find a group of people likely to not care about other's feelings, sleep around, and lie about stuff? A polyamory community.

7/28/2011 1:26:14 PM

Quote :

"But the point is no relationship is ever exactly the same. You get different things from different partners simply because no 2 people are ever alike. And the relationship is pretty secure simply because you know that if they're not getting what they need from you, they can get it elsewhere, and the same for you."

i'm a little confused by this.


give me examples of "things"
are we talking physical attributes? or personality traits?


OOOOOHHHH

Quote :

"I think part of the problem is that I like sex so when my options are between seeing my bf and having sex with him versus seeing a friend and not having sex with them, then I usually choose the sex option. Which means I end up spending a lot of time with just one person (if doing the monogamy thing)"

im ust have missed that.
so you just really really like sex??

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:30 PM. Reason : sfxfd]

7/28/2011 1:29:25 PM

Quote :

"And the relationship is pretty secure simply because you know that if they're not getting what they need from you, they can get it elsewhere, and the same for you. "

whats it? anal?

joking aside, what are these needs that people haven't able to provide? sounds like you just haven't picked the right guys to date..

7/28/2011 1:29:29 PM

Anyways, I'm disappointed that there are so few people on here who have actually tried polyamory. I was hoping for some realistic "This is why polyamory worked/didn't work for me" points of view.

7/28/2011 1:29:44 PM

is it that common?

7/28/2011 1:30:46 PM

no

people like this live their lives the same way that annoying "bisexual" chick you knew in college behaved

it's ridiculous

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:33 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 1:31:08 PM

I've met for and cared about guys who are great at sex, but they just aren't capable of being dominant, which is something I enjoy on occasion. Or vice versa. Or are into bondage, which is something I haven't tried much of but sounds fun. And they all have differently shaped bodies and sex organs (especially the woman I'm interested in )

Aside from sex, there are lots of people into different things that interest me, like fire spinning, or wood turning, or hiking and camping, but none of them are into ALL of it.

Quote :

"is it that common?"

And I guess not. I guess TWW community is more inclined towards negative views of what they see as "vice", which I'm guessing is from a lot of Christian upbringing and viewpoints.

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:38 PM. Reason : f]

7/28/2011 1:34:52 PM

This has always been one of those things that "sounds good -- in theory" to me. Being able to sleep with multiple people and nobody minds? Sounds pretty awesome.

But I can't believe that nobody minds, long term. Sooner or later, you're going to decide that you like one of your fuck-pals better than the others, which is going to lead to a feeling of attachment, which is going to lead to you being jealous of the other girls he's banging. Or one of the guys is going to decide he likes you more than the other girls and the same will happen in reverse. Either way, you get to deal with basically the same drama that comes with traditional relationships.

7/28/2011 1:36:06 PM

well of course not!!
it's ridiculous to think youll find a carbon copy of yourself!
(and honestly i dont think it would be much fun)


cody's not into all the stuff i do and that's when i find friends that are or i go do it by myself (i have lots of classes and stuff i go to alone )

i like it though it lets me keep an identity away from cody.


but anyway you may find better answers here:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/index.php?s=ad0dacda6ab03938b3b2adfae6a48427
http://forum.polyweekly.com/

although im sure they are a little biased.

Quote :

"I guess TWW community is more inclined towards negative views of what they see as "vice", which I'm guessing is from a lot of Christian upbringing and viewpoints. "

i wouldn't say that.
just because they have a opinion that is in the majority doesnt make them "wrong" any more than you.


[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:41 PM. Reason : dgdfg]

7/28/2011 1:38:13 PM

it's not from "christian" values, it's from living in reality

the point is that people like this don't mind fucking a lot of people whom they don't have "woozy" feeling for

which is kind of gross and making you a fucking vector

blech

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:40 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 1:40:13 PM

vector.

i like that.

7/28/2011 1:42:55 PM

If you think these views are unique to TWW then you don't understand what type of person who goes to NCSU.

If you the think views are unique to NCSU, you don't what type of person lives in the USA.

7/28/2011 1:44:53 PM

Quote :

"are you expecting too much from your partner? maybe you are going for the completely wrong type? or maybe you are giving too much of yourself (yes thats an issue, no one should ever lose their identity to a relationship)?"

all of the above...when someone says they can't find a person who meets all of their "needs," it means they're in denial (or completely incapable of facing the truth) about their own issues

i have a "problem" with polyamory because it's bullshit...i'm sure someone, somewhere, is capable of living their entire life without loving another person in a way that causes them personal sadness/grief/loneliness/whatever when a person they care about meets someone else that causes them to pull away...but i'll never meet the one person capable of that, and it sure as hell isn't sylvershadow

if nothing else, when you're old and your boobs hang to your knees and your vajayjay just doesn't get wet anymore except when you piss yourself, you'll probably wish you had put more effort into mitigating the crazy you suffer from and less time calling up fuckbuddies every time you're lonely (which, given this thread, is probably quite a bit)

7/28/2011 1:47:49 PM

I didn't say they were wrong, but like nastoute, most people on here are only going by theory, a theory they learned mostly from christian values. He's never claimed to try it so he can't actually give a real opinion on it, only building ideas of how it would work from what he knows, which is monogamy.

7/28/2011 1:48:29 PM

This society is one of serial monogamy with hopes and expectations for "forever" monogamy.

That's what we do, that's what we expect.

If you're not on board... than you're living a little bit in crazyville and we're going to treat you accordingly.

7/28/2011 1:49:41 PM

Quote :

"if nothing else, when you're old and your boobs hang to your knees and your vajayjay just doesn't get wet anymore except when you piss yourself, you'll probably wish you had put more effort into mitigating the crazy you suffer from and less time calling up fuckbuddies every time you're lonely (which, given this thread, is probably quite a bit)"

oh siggnity snack

truth has never been more vulgar

7/28/2011 1:51:24 PM

Quote :

"vector. i like that."

i'm pretty sure he was using vector as a term for "disease carrying organism"

Quote :

"just because they have a opinion that is in the majority doesnt make them "wrong" any more than you."

Yeah, but polyamory works for plenty of people. That's a fact. People who claim it doesn't work are wrong.

This thread might as well be a bunch of straight people telling gay people that their lifestyle is dysfunctional. Bunch of antiquated bullshit.

Quote :

"This society is one of serial monogamy with hopes and expectations for "forever" monogamy. That's what we do, that's what we expect. If you're not on board... than you're living a little bit in crazyville and we're going to treat you accordingly."

Yep. And everyone needs to live in a rectangular house surrounded by other identical houses and have a heterosexual spouse and two kids and a minivan. Or they're crazy.

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 1:52:53 PM

Quote :

"This society is one of serial monogamy with hopes and expectations for "forever" monogamy. That's what we do, that's what we expect."

this is where I say something about if everyone is jumping off a cliff....

Also, considering most women outlive their male partners, I'm not sure what I'll be losing when I'm that old.

Also considering the number of men that go for "newer models"....

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 1:55 PM. Reason : d]

7/28/2011 1:54:13 PM

yeah, life sucks... especially for women

7/28/2011 1:55:46 PM

Quote :

"This thread might as well be a bunch of straight people telling gay people that their lifestyle is dysfunctional. Bunch of antiquated bullshit. "

Thank you! I think that basically cuts to the heart of the thread.

That, and I'm gonna give it a go and see how it works out for me. So with that, I'm outta here for a time.

7/28/2011 1:56:30 PM

Daddy
Sylvia Plath

You do not do, you do not do
Any more, black shoe
In which I have lived like a foot
For thirty years, poor and white,
Barely daring to breathe or Achoo.

Daddy, I have had to kill you.
You died before I had time---
Marble-heavy, a bag full of God,
Ghastly statue with one grey toe
Big as a Frisco seal

And a head in the freakish Atlantic
Where it pours bean green over blue
In the waters off beautiful Nauset.
I used to pray to recover you.
Ach, du.

In the German tongue, in the Polish town
Scraped flat by the roller
Of wars, wars, wars.
But the name of the town is common.
My Polack friend

Says there are a dozen or two.
So I never could tell where you
Put your foot, your root,
I never could talk to you.
The tongue stuck in my jaw.

It stuck in a barb wire snare.
Ich, ich, ich, ich,
I could hardly speak.
I thought every German was you.
And the language obscene

An engine, an engine
Chuffing me off like a Jew.
A Jew to Dachau, Auschwitz, Belsen.
I began to talk like a Jew.
I think I may well be a Jew.

The snows of the Tyrol, the clear beer of Vienna
Are not very pure or true.
With my gypsy ancestress and my weird luck
And my Taroc pack and my Taroc pack
I may be a bit of a Jew.

I have always been scared of *you*,
With your Luftwaffe, your gobbledygoo.
And your neat mustache
And your Aryan eye, bright blue.
Panzer-man, panzer-man, O You---

Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.

You stand at the blackboard, daddy,
In the picture I have of you,
A cleft in your chin instead of your foot
But no less a devil for that, no not
Any less the black man who

Bit my pretty red heart in two.
I was ten when they buried you.
At twenty I tried to die
And get back, back, back to you.
I thought even the bones would do.

But they pulled me out of the sack,
And they stuck me together with glue.
And then I knew what to do.
I made a model of you,
A man in black with a Meinkampf look

And a love of the rack and the screw.
And I said I do, I do.
So daddy, I'm finally through.
The black telephone's off at the root,
The voices just can't worm through.

If I've killed one man, I've killed two---
The vampire who said he was you
and drank my blood for a year,
Seven years, if you want to know.
Daddy, you can lie back now.

There's a stake in your fat, black heart
And the villagers never liked you.
They are dancing and stamping on you.
They always *knew* it was you.
Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through.

7/28/2011 2:01:24 PM

Quote :

"i'm pretty sure he was using vector as a term for "disease carrying organism""

no shit.
what else would it be?


i wasn't saying she was.
i liked the way he used it.

Quote :

"Also considering the number of men that go for "newer models"...."

yeah i really think you might be attracted to the wrong "type" (if you will)
this may be the right path for you

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:07 PM. Reason : sfdfs]

7/28/2011 2:06:20 PM

Sorry I assumed you were a good person and wouldn't appreciate a person being called a vector?

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:07:55 PM

um, anyone with multiple partners is going to be at a significantly higher risk for STDs than those who are monogamous.

The term applies, you sanctimonious fuck.

7/28/2011 2:10:13 PM

i never said that

7/28/2011 2:10:30 PM

Quote :

""Also considering the number of men that go for "newer models"...." yeah i really think you might be attracted to the wrong "type" (if you will) this may be the right path for you "

nah, she's probably talking about the shit that happens after 20 years of marriage

which happens to pfff... damn near everyone?

7/28/2011 2:10:44 PM

well thats what i meant too.

people will always look but not everyone "trades"



[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:14 PM. Reason : i guess i dont grasp the importance of new pootang or peen. ]

7/28/2011 2:11:38 PM

Quote :

"um, anyone with multiple partners is going to be at a significantly higher risk for STDs than those who are monogamous. The term applies, you sanctimonious fuck."

You sure are assuming a lot about this person. Even porn stars practice safe sex.

Regardless of whether or not it applies (it doesn't), it's a fucked up thing to call someone.

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:14:37 PM

really?

because I thought it was super smart and awesome

which is what I was going for

...

actually it's my go to term for people like that

like... I won't touch that with a 10 foot pole because she is vectoring all over the place

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:16:08 PM

oh god
i lol'd over here.


i freaking love that term.


im gonna steal it.

7/28/2011 2:17:44 PM

Quote :

"This thread might as well be a bunch of straight people telling gay people that their lifestyle is dysfunctional. Bunch of antiquated bullshit."

I don't view polyamory as a bad or immoral thing, I just don't see the point. If I'm sleeping with two or more girls on a regular basis, I see absolutely no benefit to letting them all know that. I'd rather it stay a mystery rather than it become a situation where I'm picking favorites, which is inevitably what would happen.

7/28/2011 2:17:46 PM

Quote :

"I don't view polyamory as a bad or immoral thing, I just don't see the point. If I'm sleeping with two or more girls on a regular basis, I see absolutely no benefit to letting them all know that. I'd rather it stay a mystery rather than it become a situation where I'm picking favorites, which is inevitably what would happen."

Well it seems like you're equating polyamory with "having sex with a bunch of different people". That's not really the gist of it. As far as I know, it's about being open to romantic relationships (not just sexual) with more than one person. ex. You might have a girlfriend, and your girlfriend has a girlfriend. Or you and your girlfriend might have a three-way relationship with another person.

7/28/2011 2:26:04 PM

Quote :

"Even porn stars practice safe sex. "

I don't know what kind of porn you watch, there is close to 0% condom use.

Just last year there was an HIV outbreak that halted production for a while, and tons of cases in the last several years.

I'd call 'em vectors too.

7/28/2011 2:26:54 PM

^^

what do you think that they have some kind of three date rule?

ha

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:26:58 PM

yeah, porn's version of "safe sex" is not get AIDS

that is not to let someone HIV infected into their regulated community

it's not the same version of "safe sex" as the rest of us think

7/28/2011 2:28:20 PM

Quote :

"I don't know what kind of porn you watch, there is close to 0% condom use. Just last year there was an HIV outbreak that halted production for a while, and tons of cases in the last several years. I'd call 'em vectors too. "

Ya, but they are at least required to have random checkups. What I'm trying to say is you can have a lot of sex with different people and not have STDs. It's pretty dumb to call someone like that a disease carrier, when you know nothing about them.

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:30:57 PM

ok, now im legitimately a little confused.

if you have a hobby and the person you are dating doesnt enjoy that hobby, why find another "boyfriend" who shares the interest.

why can't you find a friend?
why does it have to romantic?


honest questions.
[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:33 PM. Reason : -->

7/28/2011 2:32:31 PM

Quote :

"Well it seems like you're equating polyamory with "having sex with a bunch of different people". That's not really the gist of it. As far as I know, it's about being open to romantic relationships (not just sexual) with more than one person. ex. You might have a girlfriend, and your girlfriend has a girlfriend. Or you and your girlfriend might have a three-way relationship with another person."

No, I recognize the difference, I just wouldn't see it as a useful arrangement for myself. Relationships are already too complicated, multi-person romantic relationships set the stage for some serious fucking drama.

7/28/2011 2:38:05 PM

Quote :

"Also, considering most women outlive their male partners, I'm not sure what I'll be losing when I'm that old. Also considering the number of men that go for "newer models"...."

That's pretty bitter about the dedicated male partner that you'll (even by your own admission) never have.

And just so we don't leave this technical point unanswered....

life expectancy
males: 75.6
females: 80.8

standard deviation: about 7 years for both

I'll let someone else do the real math, but I'm pretty sure that only puts it at like 70% chance the man will die first. Both partners have a significant chance of dying first, if they're the same age to begin with.

7/28/2011 2:50:36 PM

This has nothing to do with monogamy or polyamory.

The chick just likes getting railed and "polyamory" has a classier ring to it than "chick who likes getting railed".

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2011 2:51:39 PM

Quote :

"if you have a hobby and the person you are dating doesnt enjoy that hobby, why find another "boyfriend" who shares the interest. why can't you find a friend? why does it have to romantic?"

Sometimes you develop tension with people outside your primary relationship. Monogamous people would restrict those feelings--polyamorous people would be open to pursuing them. I'm guessing they just prefer to be open to their desires, and if they and their partner are comfortable with that, good for them.

Quote :

"No, I recognize the difference, I just wouldn't see it as a useful arrangement for myself. Relationships are already too complicated, multi-person romantic relationships set the stage for some serious fucking drama."

Cool, so keep being monogamous. I feel the same way. I'm sure many people make it work without drama. Then again, some people thrive on drama.

7/28/2011 2:55:49 PM

Quote :

"I've met for and cared about guys who are great at sex, but they just aren't capable of being dominant, which is something I enjoy on occasion. Or vice versa. Or are into bondage, which is something I haven't tried much of but sounds fun. And they all have differently shaped bodies and sex organs (especially the woman I'm interested in ) Aside from sex, there are lots of people into different things that interest me, like fire spinning, or wood turning, or hiking and camping, but none of them are into ALL of it."

Forgot financial stability and social responsibility, just give me someone who can do bondage and spins fire and does the the things I like. Does anyone else view this as naive and irresponsible. There must be more to life and relationships than good sex and similar interests.

7/28/2011 3:32:39 PM

Quote :

"Anyways, I'm disappointed that there are so few people on here who have actually tried polyamory. I was hoping for some realistic "This is why polyamory worked/didn't work for me" points of view."

Hey, I gave a pretty detailed account of my encounter with the community on the front page. Polyamory doesn't work for me because I've moved beyond the point where sex is the dominating aspect of relationships, and getting past that into emotional needs, a poly-relationship would make me insanely jealous, paranoid, and untrustworthy. I may have dodged the exact proposition given to me for a poly-relationship, in that I didn't give the details exactly, but that's partially because I ended up having casual sex relationships with the girls in question, and at least one of them still reads tdub. It was already a friends with benefits situation where they were semi-close female friends who enjoyed having sex with me and wanted to try polyamory within that situation. Originally I was on-board, and it was actually at that time that I read The Ethical Slut. The reason that I didn't stay in that relationship was because I didn't think the particular women were doing it for the right reasons, and I knew I wasn't. We were just coming off as serial monogamists, and outside of the sex (which, again, was great) I wasn't very happy.

There just weren't enough personal advantages to me outside of "increased sexual partners", and even then I've seen firsthand how stressful that can be. Nothing about that point in my life was stable, and while I was happy in that I had an excessive amount of sexual pleasure, I was a nervous wreck when I wasn't getting off. I, personally, need the stability and intimacy of a monogamous relationship that I honestly don't think I could get anywhere else. Admittedly, I don't think I'll ever get the degree of sexual satisfaction in my current monogamous relationship that I could get otherwise, but the point for me is that I have more invested there than just sex, and it's not something I'm willing to give up. I can see where this wouldn't be as significant to otherwise, but it's what I need for me.

Quote :

"I'm sorry netstorm, but assumptions that I do things to be anti-societal is wrong. I do many things that "i'm supposed to do" by societal standard like "the american dream of starting a business". Then again, starting a business was still my choice. It's characterized as my freedom of choice and I can stop when I want to. Marriage is not a choice. Marriage forces you to be monogamous. I don't need something to FORCE me to be with someone. I can be monogamous without a piece of paper telling me to. If I change my mind, that's natural. If I had a choice, I'd force myself to not change my mind, but going against your own mind is challenging, stressful, and leads to angry, resentment, abuse, etc...from your frustration of being jailed in your own decisions that you couldn't predict would turn out a certain unpleasurable way. The divorce rate is something like 75%. I choose the same path as 75% of Americans that "change their minds" after commitment. The only difference is I get all the benefits of being monogamous without losing half my shit or dealing with a corrupt court system."

I'm not sure you read my post. I agreed fully that monogamy has plenty of flaws and is just as much of a trainwreck in many ways, because people seem to have the same issues with relationships no matter where they stand. And I didn't make any assumptions about you, you said you were in the "anti-society anti-monogamy boat". Sorry that I misinterpreted your stance.

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 4:11 PM. Reason : f]

7/28/2011 3:45:53 PM