Quote :

"I'm dating a Hindu who's never eaten meat in her life and has no interest in eating it either. What you eat has very little to do with choice and everything to do with your cultural background."

so, what you are saying is, there was a choice not to eat meat. Then again, eating is almost always a choice, yet the urges you do and don't recognize are not. That was more of what I was aiming for, which makes the analogy far less effective.

Quote :

"You don't choose your desire. "

True. But you can choose to ignore your desire in eating. As vegetarians most certainly do. Our body has cravings for specific foods many times due to the body "knowing" what those foods contain and what the body needs, and that craving magically coincides with something the body is lacking.

Quote :

"Further, there are homosexual reptiles, birds, mammals, even very close relatives to us."

And there are also monkeys that fling their poo at each other. Does that mean there is a poo-flinging gene or that it is perfectly natural for us to fling our poo at each other and that such behaviour is not a choice in any way?

Quote :

"Or perhaps that gay members of a tribe at times served as avuncular, additional child-raisers."

Or, it could be that homosexuality is just a choice that people make and that it doesn't matter one fucking bit.

Quote :

"You're missing the point entirely. Behaviors are choices, but preferences are not. "

ok. that's fine. where's the "i like cocks" gene? exactly.

Quote :

""Natural" means it occurs, as a given, in some proportion throughout the species no matter what. Which it does. Every culture on Earth has seen it. "

In which case murder is perfectly natural, too. Not a choice at all.

Quote :

"And for the record, gayness has been linked to hormone levels in the womb, it doesn't take a "gay gene" to make it natural."

Really? We can now predict homosexuality due to hormones? damn, show me the fag hormones! These studies often have huge problems with them, as an article that someone else posted in another thread showed perfectly, so you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

Quote :

"Once again, it's the stupid fucking cavemen like you who make it a shitty thing to be gay."

Really? i was not aware that I make it shitty for people to gay. wonderful ad hominem in the face of me pointing out a simple fact that homosexuality is not well received among people. beautiful work, man.

Quote :

"The worst thing about being gay is that aaronburro will think less of you."

where did I say that? oh right, I didn't. Or are you now disputing that there exists a stigma against homosexuality?

11/5/2011 7:10:29 PM

Quote :

"Really? We can now predict homosexuality due to hormones?"

Yes.

11/5/2011 7:16:34 PM

Quote :

"aaronburro: And there are also monkeys that fling their poo at each other. Does that mean there is a poo-flinging gene or that it is perfectly natural for us to fling our poo at each other and that such behaviour is not a choice in any way?"

Actually, a lot of children like to play with feces. We intensively condition children not to do that, and hopefully they don't. But there are still some adults who are into feces across a whole spectrum, from being kinda curious about it to secretly smearing it inappropriate places all the way up to being aroused by it.

Of course, none of this has to do with gay people...I'm just saying...you're kidding yourself if you think we're anything but poo-flinging animals at the end of the day.

11/6/2011 1:48:17 AM

If there's a gene for deliberate obtuseness, aaronburro has it.

It may be the only gene he has.

11/6/2011 1:10:55 PM

Quote :

"It may be the only gene he has."

honestly though, this was like the worst insult ever.

11/6/2011 4:06:09 PM

Quote :

"so, what you are saying is, there was a choice not to eat meat. Then again, eating is almost always a choice, yet the urges you do and don't recognize are not. That was more of what I was aiming for, which makes the analogy far less effective."

She has no desire to eat meat, period. There's no choice involved except the "choice to not do something you do not want to do." I guess you can call that a choice. I don't really consider something a choice if the other option is in no way appealing or compelling.

Quote :

"True. But you can choose to ignore your desire in eating. As vegetarians most certainly do. Our body has cravings for specific foods many times due to the body "knowing" what those foods contain and what the body needs, and that craving magically coincides with something the body is lacking."

You don't understand. She has no craving for meat, at all. She doesn't even know what it tastes like, and she's repulsed by it simply by the concept of it being formerly living flesh.

Quote :

"And there are also monkeys that fling their poo at each other. Does that mean there is a poo-flinging gene or that it is perfectly natural for us to fling our poo at each other and that such behaviour is not a choice in any way?"

No, because that's a non-consensual activity that violates the rights of others.

Again, you're doing what you've done this whole thread which is side with "naturalness" when we're talking about heterosexual sex, and side against "naturalness" when somebody points out that homosexuality also occurs in nature.

Quote :

"Or, it could be that homosexuality is just a choice that people make and that it doesn't matter one fucking bit."

I was just explaining how it's not unthinkable that it would arise naturally. Once again, it's amazing how quickly you turn on a dime as to whether something being "natural" matters or not.

Quote :

"ok. that's fine. where's the "i like cocks" gene? exactly.[quote] Are genes the only things that can cause non-choices? It's well established that homosexuality correlates very highly with hormonal levels during pre-natal development. [quote]In which case murder is perfectly natural, too. Not a choice at all."

Once again, you completely change positions on whether something being "natural" matters when it doesn't suit you.

Quote :

"Really? We can now predict homosexuality due to hormones? damn, show me the fag hormones! These studies often have huge problems with them, as an article that someone else posted in another thread showed perfectly, so you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it."

Christ almight, it's a whole field of research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

"These studies often have huge problems" is the vaguest possible generalization you can probably make, excuse me if I don't pay it any attention. "as an article that someone else posted in another thread showed perfectly" Lol so you cite a single unnamed article by an unnamed person that apparently debunks the entire field. Jesus Christ you are such a joke.

Quote :

"Really? i was not aware that I make it shitty for people to gay. wonderful ad hominem in the face of me pointing out a simple fact that homosexuality is not well received among people. beautiful work, man."

It's perfectly well received among many, many people. You, however, clearly aren't one of them.

Quote :

" where did I say that? oh right, I didn't. Or are you now disputing that there exists a stigma against homosexuality?"

The stigma exists only in certain cultures. It's glorified in others, tolerated in others.

Seriously though, why do you even care if it's a choice? I don't even understand why somebody would be so insistent, unless they themselves repress gay desires and have to believe it's a choice to save them from the gruesome realization that they might be a lil bit gay.

Seriously, aaronburro, did you ever choose to be straight?

[Edited on November 9, 2011 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2011 3:16:57 PM

Quote :

"Yes."

Really? show me that study. right fucking now. Show me the magic gaydar we now have!

Quote :

"She has no desire to eat meat, period."

because she has chosen to suppress the desire long enough. damn, that was hard.

Quote :

"No, because that's a non-consensual activity that violates the rights of others."

completely irrelevant to whether something is natural or not. monkeys do it, so it must be normal and thus OK fr us to fling poo around.

Quote :

"It's perfectly well received among many, many people. You, however, clearly aren't one of them."

again, another beautiful ad hominem and strawman. And you also completely ignore the countless others who do think it's horrible. I was merely pointing out something that many others have pointed out, and you attack me for it. what the fuck.

Quote :

"Seriously, aaronburro, did you ever choose to be straight?"

nope, because nature makes us straight, in the same way it makes us omnivores. we simply choose to be different. congrats on going in a circle, dumbfuck.



and your wikipedia aticle relies on ONE STUDY that discusses hormonal effects. nice. couldn't even find another article to back it up or replicate it. The other studies mentioned are very far from "hormones cause homosexuality" and are instead talking about other features that were allegedly correlated to homosexuality. I imagine those were debunked long ago and were only mentioned for shits and giggles. lemme go find the article that discusses several such studies...

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 8:32 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 8:26:38 PM

Quote :

"completely irrelevant to whether something is natural or not. monkeys do it, so it must be normal and thus OK fr us to fling poo around."

natural doesn't equal normal, or acceptable.

humans as much a part of nature as the ants crawling in your backyard. everything we do is natural. whether those actions are desirable or positive can be up for debate. the only difference between heterosexual and homosexual intercourse is that one can possibly result in offspring. that qualification doesn't make something un/natural.

and if you disagree with me, please define natural along with any rebuttal.

11/11/2011 9:22:28 PM

^ then why is it so important to show that homosexuality is "natural"? Why do people consistently point to butt-fucking monkeys and say "see, it's in nature!"? Why do proponents consistently try to say "it's nature." If everything is "nature," then what is the god damned point?

11/11/2011 9:32:47 PM

Quote :

"then why is it so important to show that homosexuality is "natural"? Why do people consistently point to butt-fucking monkeys and say "see, it's in nature!"? Why do proponents consistently try to say "it's nature." If everything is "nature," then what is the god damned point?"

people consistently go there in a reflexive response to the people who scream that its a choice. they're pulled into the specific terms of their opponent so to defend an apparent underclass and protect them against further hate and discrimination.

the only point i have in regards to discussions of homosexuality is that no one should give a fuck. and that if you were flexible enough to suck your own dick, and you did, it would definitely be gay.

11/11/2011 9:42:11 PM

Quote :

"the only point i have in regards to discussions of homosexuality is that no one should give a fuck."

I'm down with that. even if I think it's a choice, I really don't give a fuck if you choose it. is that cool?

Quote :

"people consistently go there in a reflexive response to the people who scream that its a choice."

but that's not really true. there are plenty of people out there trying to say it's not a choice before anyone else comes in and says otherwise.

[Edited on November 11, 2011 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ]

11/11/2011 10:15:22 PM

Quote :

"but that's not really true. there are plenty of people out there trying to say it's not a choice before anyone else comes in and says otherwise."

i disagree. the history of oppression against homosexuals has often been defended by the supposition that "its a choice." people who appear to be unprovoked in speaking to the "naturalness" of homosexuality are generally responding to a still resonating Cultural Claim. [of course, there are sad people speaking towards nearly every subject, thinking that flapping their gums, only repeating something they've heard elsewhere, will give them some identity and spare them the existential despair of leading a thoughtless existence]

Quote :

"I'm down with that. even if I think it's a choice, I really don't give a fuck if you choose it. is that cool?"

i'm cool with anyone who isn't a jerk, or isn't harmful to others. but as you go on thinking that way, i hope that you often reevaluate your stance and consider the potential ramifications of the "its a choice" idea being further propagated.

11/11/2011 10:32:48 PM

^What are the ramifications of "it's a choice"?

11/12/2011 12:46:04 AM

Quote :

"nope, because nature makes us straight, in the same way it makes us omnivores. we simply choose to be different. congrats on going in a circle, dumbfuck."

So nature makes us all bisexual?

11/12/2011 10:48:23 AM

First, this comparison of diet choices to sexuality needs to be stopped. They are two completely different things.

Second, the facts and evidence of what determines behavior needs to be established...

The factors in determining the person you are are extremely multifactoral. Genes, prenatal environment, post natal environment, and experiences during the different stages of life long development all play a huge role in forming your personality, preferences and behavior.

For example, children who are sexually molested at a young age tend to have a higher chance of becoming sexual offenders in the future. Do you think they wanted or decided to become the evil that victimized them?

Another example, fetuses who are exposed to high prenatal levels of stress hormones from a mother who is in a very stressful environment tend to have personalities that have anxiety and stress disorders.

Aaronburro, you really need to come to terms with your disconnection with evidence and reality and start reading a lot more books on science. Your personal views and opinions are clouding the facts.

11/12/2011 1:08:54 PM

Quote :

"Aaronburro, you really need to come to terms with your disconnection with evidence and reality and start reading a lot more books on science. Your personal views and opinions are clouding the facts."

admins please make this an automatic reply to every aaronburro post

11/14/2011 11:12:55 AM

Quote :

"What are the ramifications of "it's a choice"?"

empowering anti-gay proponents, giving them a justification for discrimination, enabling those who commit acts of violence to feel righteous

11/15/2011 3:03:36 AM

The only reason why someone would believe that it's a choice is so they can convince themselves that they can choose to be straight even though they're not. burro probably pretends it's another mans cock in his hand whenever he masturbates.

11/15/2011 3:10:52 AM