I bet MS won't use such a system.


I donno if you heard but a suit that's headed to court will touch on the issue about the reselling of digital goods. It'll probably go up the chain and hit supreme court since its a big issue today. If the courts says its legal, then it could push a shift into the used digital goods segment (something that greenman gaming already does).

Quote :

" The Copyright Act of 1976 explicitly guarantees what’s known as “first sale doctrine” — the idea that having purchased a good, the owner of said product has the legal right to resell it. The question of how first sale doctrine should be applied to digital products is very much a legal gray area."

And honestly, if I were to buy a gaming console, not having a used market would probably not kill my decision to get one provided there's enough good sales for the games. I'm never going to spend $60 for a game; PC or console. But even on new releases (at least for PC and sometimes the consoles) you can find them for $20 or more off with included shit. Amazon always offers that $20 amazon giftcard for select AAA title games and they offer release date shipping for $1.

I'm just wondering how big of a shift MS would take with their online distro store. It would be cool if MS had the option to buy an xbox game AND PC version at the same time. Wasn't there a game that did this?

2/11/2012 1:11:21 AM

I ditched consoles after MS broke their 100% backwards compatibility promise when transitioning from xbox > 360. I'm glad I did, and I did it over something much more minor than this.

I see there are some similarities in this argument to the piracy arguments. A piracy/used game purchase equals a lost sale. Yes and no. I used to buy used console games all the time. If used games were just as much as new games I'd simply not buy the game at all and do without - a lost sale either way. I recognize that I'm probably in the minority in that regard. Even then when I walk in a gamestop these days the discount they give you for buying used is usually a whopping 10%. I might be more inclined to buy new for a little extra just to avoid the possibility of picking up a scratched disc.

^
I don't know. I kinda find it funny that there's an act that explicitly gives consumers the right to sell something they purchased... but when it comes to games (and probably movies and music) there's suddenly a HUGE fight to be had. Why? Seems pretty open and shut but if the law doesn't spell it out for every dummy there's some wiggle room to lobby to go after more $$$.

2/11/2012 6:41:02 AM

Quote :

"MS broke their 100% backwards compatibility promise"

say what?

2/11/2012 10:25:59 AM

don't forget about the budget priced 6670 card.


anyone heard anything about the PS4 yet? I hope it's not a total shitpile like this.

2/11/2012 11:36:55 AM

I did laugh when I saw the 720 would have something similar to a 6670. Just pathetic.

2/11/2012 11:58:14 AM

i like this dude better than Thomas Y.

2/11/2012 12:29:38 PM

Quote :

"MS broke their 100% backwards compatibility promise"

Quote :

"say what?"

Uh... yeah? Last I checked (it was over a year ago) MS only had about half the games I own for the xbox on the backwards compatible list. They initially promised 100%, about 50-60% of my games were on their list, so they broke that promise.

Edit: I'm reading now that they supposedly never promised 100% but I seem to remember that. Maybe it was a rumor or maybe there's been some revisionism going on. I remember they brought a new guy to head the bc team and that's when the letdown news started coming back. Fewer and fewer games, efforts to reduce expectation, lots of people upset about it. Either way they didn't port enough of my games to make a 360 purchase worth it for me and either way they over promised and under delivered big time for the 360's bc feature.

Peter Moore: "Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility." Probably right, I was just one of the rare people that actually put my money where my mouth was, took a stand, and never bought a 360. I transitioned to the PC and it worked out for me.

BTW: If they promise anything similar for the '720' I'd take it with a huge grain of salt.



[Edited on February 11, 2012 at 1:36 PM. Reason : -]

2/11/2012 1:18:19 PM

Love how you yards are burying an unannounced, non-existent console based on your own speculation. All this bullshitting and bravado is hilarious.

Just a couple of nuggets to chew on: look at current digital distribution services, how long do games stick at full msrp (59.99)? What, maybe a month? Just because a game is digitally distributed doesn't mean the laws of economics don't apply. Of course games will get cheaper over time, don't be stupid.

For the hardware, please stop making the same stupid fucking PC vs console argument. Yes, of course a 500 dollar video card in a 1500 dollar computer is going to be more capable than anything in a 3-500 dollar console. Everybody understands this.

2/11/2012 2:31:33 PM

Quote :

"I'm reading now that they supposedly never promised 100% but I seem to remember that."

You're remembering it wrong. That never happened.

And most likely they gave up on the whole backwards compatibility issue because, simply put, by giving a shit about it, you're in the minority. Most people buy a new console to play new games, not old ones.

2/11/2012 3:17:04 PM

Maybe he's thinking about Playstation?

2/11/2012 4:42:56 PM

I hope Microsoft actually goes through with this. God knows after the shit I went through with my 360 that I would love to see these assholes get shit canned in the next generation.

2/12/2012 2:02:49 AM

I honestly don't believe anything I've read about the next xbox so far. Not a word of it.

Especially this rumor about used games. This would do 2 things for the Xbox.

1) make developers love them.
2) make users hate them.

Thing is, developers will already develop for xbox no matter what, so doing something out of the ordinary to accomidate them would be dumb, meanwhile if they alienate users that will actually have a noticeable impact on console sales.

2/12/2012 2:49:38 AM

Quote :

"no, because the developers got their money from the original buyer. this is just a way for them to be greedy and basically sell the same game twice."

Quote :

"Or two people have got to play the game and theyve been paid once"

Same as with any other good. If the product were truly deserving of two sales then either the person who bought it new wouldn't get rid of it or the person who bought it used wouldn't wait and would buy it new.

What this really boils down to is game developers seeing how much money Gamestop makes by ripping people off with their used game business and wanting that money for themselves.

2/12/2012 11:35:47 AM

Quote :

"Same as with any other good. If the product were truly deserving of two sales then either the person who bought it new wouldn't get rid of it or the person who bought it used wouldn't wait and would buy it new."

I understand the intent of this quote but it's just not true across the board. Myself, along with the majority of people I know/hang out with who game, just don't care to accumulate any games we don't intend to play anymore (PS3 here but the same concept applies). This usually means when I finish one it gets resold (or traded to a friend or something). Might as well put some $ back in my pocket instead of letting a game I've finished/am done playing with collect dust on a shelf in case I get the urge to play it randomly in a year.

And as far as the 'if it was good enough they wouldn't wait,' it really comes down to instant gratification. Some people want to play X game the hour it comes out and some people want to play the game but are ok waiting and paying a little less. Look at cars, instruments, movies, books. There are tons of people in all those categories who want to own/use said good just as much as the person who buys the item brand new, but they are perfectly ok with not having the latest and greatest and letting someone else take the "used" depreciation hit.


TLDR: I can totally understand the gamer who buys games the day they come out and doesn't sell them, but I also know there are lots of people who buy used games and sell them back because it is just more economical often times and it has nothing to do with the quality of the games.

2/12/2012 12:15:03 PM

^I don't really understand how what you're saying addresses my point. All I meant to say is that the game developers are not losing out on revenue any more than the makers of any other product that can be bought and sold second hand, and any attempt to get money out of a second-hand user is pure greed.

2/12/2012 6:51:17 PM

I agree with you on the greed point. I apologize, I guess I mistakenly took your quote a little out of context.

I just meant that I don't think the quality of the good necessarily always affects whether someone buys it new vs used or whether they choose to sell it; however, in either case the attempt to get money out of the re-sale is definitely greedy and not something that will go over well with the consumers.

2/12/2012 6:58:15 PM

when you have to pay for an xbox live account to play online, that's one thing

when you have to pay for an xbox live account to play online and then pay again if you buy a used game, that's bullshit

2/13/2012 2:12:50 PM

Could have already been said, but how will effect Gamefly games or rentals in general?

2/13/2012 4:35:24 PM

that strictly depends on how they implement this

2/13/2012 5:19:37 PM

are there any xbox only titles that are worth a shit besides halo? a lot of my friends have moved out of the area and are on ps3 and I was thinking about getting one, or maybe just trying to trade my xbox elite for a ps3. any thoughts?

Gran Turismo would be pretty cool but I do prefer the xbox controller. but free ps3 live or whatever would be cool and so would having the option to get nfl ticket. and blu ray.. hmmm

3/15/2012 11:17:25 PM

and netflix...


Forza 4 is fun as hell. Best Forza ever.

3/15/2012 11:27:31 PM

If the ps3 controller didn't suck and psn didn't suck so hard ps3 would clearly be the superior system.

I'm krallum and I approved this message.

3/16/2012 11:51:02 AM

im tired of all this multiplayer crap

what happened to single player games that can stand on their own

3/16/2012 12:25:32 PM

Quote :

"Third, some new games like Call of Duty have an Elite multiplayer structure that funnels people towards spending $20 to get better weapons, faster experience, etc. That, in itself is already one of the greediest fucking things in gaming and it is here to stay."

mechanics like this are an effort to get a cut of the revenue used game sales and rentals generate. price discrimination still exists, you'll end up paying less for new games when the CONTENT CREATORS get more of the revenue their titles generate. I'm 100% for this, since gamestop and other used game outlets have 0 intrinsic value.

example: there's NO used pc game market or rental system - yet you'll never pay more for a pc version of a game than a console version

3/16/2012 1:16:04 PM

That's because you can easily and illegally download pretty much any PC game you want.

Also, nowhere near as many people play PC versus console.

3/16/2012 1:21:09 PM

anyone who thinks any of this is a good idea is fucking retarded...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/02/the-next-xbox-and-playstation-consoles-are-all-about-controlling-consumers/

Quote :

"Rumors Suggest the Next Xbox and Playstation Consoles Are All About Controlling Consumers Despite the fact that both Sony and Microsoft have yet to actually say anything about a next generation of consoles, rumors are swirling around the internet about what gamers can expect from the companies’ next offerings. Much of the chatter revolves around the hardware, which is, after all, the main reason for building a new console. But other details are starting to paint a distinct picture. Internet connections, digital rights management and used games restrictions all point to a common theme — when the next consoles drop, both Sony and Microsoft want to be able to keep their consumers under control. The latest news is from a report by VG24/7, suggesting the Xbox will require a constant internet connection, which screams digital rights management to anyone familiar with videogames. It’s the sort of thing that doesn’t present any practical challenge to the majority of gamers – internet is pretty common amongst those who can afford an Xbox – but can be philosophically challenging. The implication is that game companies need to keep a constant eye on their customers to keep them in line. Ethernet becomes a leash. Consoles have always fared better than PCs when it comes to piracy, and as a result console games have traditionally been free of the sorts of digital rights management that PC gamers have been using for years. But while the simple requirement of a physical DVD is an impediment to casual downloaders of illegal content, that physical format has also left consoles with an Achilles heel that has been getting a lot of attention in the press these days: used games. Both the next Xbox and Playstation have been rumored to have restrictions on used games. It’s an attempt to move all games distribution into official channels, and it has already rankled consumers. We like hunting through bargain bins, and we like borrowing discs from friends. It’s all a lot of hot air, in my opinion. Digital distribution will effectively kill the used games market, and any posturing on the part of console makers won’t do anything except infuriate their fans. Once digital distribution takes over, the basic mechanics of a console interface will shut down most casual pirates. Those willing to jump through the hoops required to pirate console games represent a small minority of committed thieves who aren’t going to bow to any attempts to corral them. That doesn’t mean that the console makers still couldn’t shoot themselves in the foot through excessive posturing. They should learn from the PC industry here – attempts to tighten grips on consumers have a way of forcing more and more of them through the cracks in a company’s hand. Clamping down on piracy almost never restricts piracy. If anything it has a way of making developers and distributors into targets. If the picture that’s emerging is based on fact, Microsoft and Sony need to slow their roll. Accessibility is paramount for consoles, and if some of these measures are taken to extremes they could confound casual and hardcore players alike. As free-to-play, casual and social games up their profile in the industry every year, the focus should be on making games easier to access, not harder."

4/3/2012 10:45:18 AM

4/3/2012 10:48:59 AM

On one hand, I hate that developers and publishers keep pushing this stuff that treats every consumer like a thief and making it more difficult to play a game. On the other hand, I hate the Gamestops and Ebgames of the world and wouldn't mind seeing every one of their shops close.

4/3/2012 1:27:36 PM

If valve wanted to make a console (steam box), now is the time to do it. MS and Sony will have no idea how to correctly have a digital distribution platform or how to attempt to curb used games. It's going to be a massive headache for the consumers.

I can't wait until some basic feature like downloading a game to your console from a browser is locked behind xbox gold service.

"Pay us $50 a year, to access our online store so you can pay $60 to download a game (can't be cheaper even though we claim most costs goes into disc pressing) and then purchase the day 1 DLC for $15"

Also, any chance that games won't go down in price nearly as fast as they used to? Why should anyone lower the price of a game if there are no used sales?

I wish gamers would speak with their wallets instead of starting these pointless online battles only to be first in line for the next game or console.

4/6/2012 9:53:03 AM

Quote :

"I wish gamers would speak with their wallets instead of starting these pointless online battles only to be first in line for the next game or console."

agreed

4/10/2012 1:26:10 PM

^^ make games that don't get old. No one will sell them for $5 used if it could be some fun later..


I STILL own excite bike for nintendo.

4/10/2012 1:44:06 PM

Quote :

"Also, any chance that games won't go down in price nearly as fast as they used to? Why should anyone lower the price of a game if there are no used sales?"

<GameX> 1 released 6 months ago. Sales are stagnating and the company is not in the spotlight anymore. Lower the game price to continue generating sales and put the company's name back in focus.

The sequel to <GameX> 1 is about to release. People who didn't experience the first want to play it before the sequel, but they don't want to pay retail price. Make it cheaper.

<GameY> is a competitors game, but its much like <GameX> that released a while back. Make your competitor feel your wrath by making <GameX> cheaper to steal sales from them.

----------------

Dumb question is dumb.
I actually wouldn't mind if digital distribution became the main thing and game prices lowered because of it. I don't ever sell my games used (though I do sometimes buy used . . . but not often).

4/10/2012 1:51:48 PM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCITEBIKE-NES-NINTENDO-GAME-/230772477390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb1c8dce#ht_500wt_1156

4/10/2012 1:56:47 PM

If I purchase a game/album/movie/etc, it is mine to do what I please with. Including sell it, give it away, or share it.

4/10/2012 2:02:41 PM

Physical games are not long for this world. The next-gen systems (XBOX720, PS4, Nintendo Mii, Sega Exodus) will probably have a period of 1-2 years where you download a game onto your hard drive.

After that, the wave of the future will be cloud-based gaming. OnLive has already released a PC service (Steve Perlman is the golden god of online gaming). The entire argument about multiplayer fees and used games is almost pointless because the ability to buy any physical gaming product will be gone soon.

And are we really going to cry for Gamestop? They've exploited naive kids and uninterested parents for far too long. Ever seen a kid sell 8 decent games for $15 store credit? I'm not saying that they shouldn't buy games at a price that they can make money on, but they pay way below a fair value for the majority of trade-ins (and by fair value I mean where they can make a profit as well).

I was once in a Gamestop many years ago when a kid, who was maybe 14, had a Sega Genesis, Sega CD, ~20 Genesis games, and ~25 CD games. Gamestop offered him $60. This was like right when the Saturn came out. I told the guy "Step outside of the store and I'll give you $150 cash for everything you have." His mother was with him. The idiot sold it to Gamestop for $60 store credit, effectively trading what was then a fairly valuable ($500) collection for one Saturn game. Maybe the idiots deserve it. Maybe the poor deserve to be poor.

4/13/2012 5:12:09 AM

Probably been mentioned before:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/04/06/will-next-gen-consoles-run-on-last-years-graphics-cards/

Ha that's laughable.

4/13/2012 12:41:50 PM

^^Ha. I got harassed by a Gamestop manager when I tried to do the exact same thing... except I was trying to buy their Saturn collection and they were after one Dreamcast game.

4/13/2012 1:23:59 PM

I always resell my old games on eBay.

But I buy old games at GameStop.

Mainly out of convenience.

Could I get it online for a few bucks cheaper?

Sure, but then I couldn't have it right then.

4/13/2012 1:29:32 PM