The team won, so nobody is complaining.

2/12/2012 3:01:37 AM

Yeah and I haven't wrecked my car while Texting yet. Doesn't make it a good idea

2/12/2012 3:03:25 AM

Carmelo is a top 10 player last time i checked.

2/12/2012 3:40:36 AM

^ Please tell me you don't mean because he is an All-Star starter.

2/12/2012 3:43:36 AM

Top 10 player on the knicks yes, but not a top ten player in his division this year

2/12/2012 6:19:02 AM

name 10 better players in the division

(this should be good)

2/12/2012 9:42:46 AM

See, I'm a stats guy and I understand most of the advanced statistics. I know eyes can be deceiving and all and I don't try to rely on my own to make objective decisions. That being said, there is something going on with teams at times. It happened with Tebow in Denver and it's happening with Lin in New York. And you ride it as long as you can despite his eFG%, or his PER or his WP48...

And yes that's a very Joe Morgan-esque view but as long as you don't eschew ALL advanced statistics as bogus I think that's OK.

[Edited on February 12, 2012 at 9:48 AM. Reason : x]

2/12/2012 9:47:46 AM

Look who joined the Lin-Wagon

2/12/2012 3:00:47 PM

No problem. I'll only list the inarguable ones having a better season than Melo who is currently making the nuggets and knicks better by not playing for them.


Pierce, Allen, Garnett, Rondo
Iguodala, Brand, Hawes, Williams, Turner, Vucevic, Holiday, Meeks , Young
Humphries
Chandler, Lin, Fields
Calderon, Davis, Johnson


That's 20. And I didn't even put marshon brooks or Jordan farmar

2/12/2012 3:02:27 PM

Having a better season= better player.

k, got it.

2/12/2012 3:48:13 PM

I'm,assuming that means all those players are also better than Deron Williams as well since he didn't get listed?

2/12/2012 4:36:03 PM

i was thinking Deron and Bargnani would be on the list

Iguodala, Pierce and Rondo could certainly be mentioned

didnt think he'd reach for the 40 year old Celtics players, but his anti-Melo hardon has been throbbing for years

lol at Vucevic...5 points and 5 rebounds a game...superstar

i miss the rally that used to completely dismiss Vick's terrible passing stats and argue that all he did was win

how'd you even make your list? Melo is 4th in PER amongst SFs

2/12/2012 4:49:49 PM

PER is a total garbage metric that was dismissed years ago. It is heavily biased towards players who shoot frequently, which is why its no surprise that Carmelo does well there. It has no statistical significance towards winning.

Bargnani has literally been one of the worst players in the NBA for the past several years. He was improved this year before he got hurt, but no one would want him over Carmelo.

Deron Williams has sucked huge this year, surprised you haven't noticed. Yes, Carmelo has definitely been better than Williams (though not by all that much).

If you don't think Allen, Pierce, and Garnett are better than Melo this year you have lost your mind, seriously.

And Eman. I said "this year". So yes, this year = this year.

But Melo has never played at anywhere close to a superstar level in any year of his career. The guy is a high volume shooter. Terrific if you want to sell jerseys, but not the best if you want to win games.

He was very good on the Olympic teams though when he focused on rebounding and scoring around the basket rather than shooting a bunch of jumpers he usually misses. So I definitely agree he has the talent to be a really good player, he just doesn't care to play like one.


^ I never dismissed Vick's statistics. I dismissed the ones that you guys were attempting to use like QB rating. QB rating is a totally flawed metric when evaluating a player like Vick or Newton. Now if you used something relevant like DYAR, then you'd understand that Vick was a great QB. The reason they were winning a lot of games is because he was so great. Notice, how his teams always have effective running games? Now, did you notice the Panthers had the best running game in the past 20 NFL seasons? Are you trying to tell me there is no correlation between an effective running game and having Cam Newton or Mike Vick as your starting QB?

C'mon guys.

[Edited on February 12, 2012 at 10:25 PM. Reason : a]

2/12/2012 10:22:19 PM

He will. He's never had the teammates to win.

2/12/2012 10:24:48 PM

so you at least admit Melo has superstar talent

i mean anybody who can score 50 points in a game obviously has talent, you'd be retarded to argue otherwise (even though you always argue otherwise)

but i thought you worshiped PER? please enlighten me on what obscure stats you currently put your entire faith in so I can glance at those particular ratings for 30 seconds and discredit them just like PER

Quote :

"did you notice the Panthers had the best running game in the past 20 NFL seasons?"

the Panthers did have the best running game in the past 20 NFL seasons...2 years ago with Delhomme at QB

2/12/2012 10:24:59 PM

^^ The Nuggets were loaded with Carmelo. They became one of the best teams in the league last year AFTER they unloaded Melo.

You can't make anymore excuses for the guy.

Chandler is having a monster season. The Knicks are winning games WITHOUT him that they couldn't win with him. Think about it.

2/12/2012 10:28:13 PM

funny how Carmelo led them to the Western Conference Finals yet somehow they're better without him when they haven't won a playoff series since he left

the best teams in the league usually lose in the 1st round after making the conference finals while they had a superstar

2/12/2012 10:32:39 PM

You would think after years of advanced statistics proving themselves to be reliable that you would be smart enough to see their value.

Then after events like Jeremy Lin vs carmelo Anthony where they smack your forehead with their alluring cockhead ...you still fight that feeling.

Unsalvageable . The whole human species

2/13/2012 5:43:49 AM

Quote :

"Wow he really came back down to earth tonight. 8-24 Fg with 6 turnovers uh oh"

Back-to-back nights playing 40 minutes...2nd game was away in Minnesota.

HOLY SHIT...HE DIDN'T DROP 30+ AGAIN...HE'S FALLING BACK DOWN TO EARTH!!

2/13/2012 7:41:54 AM

Let's be realistic here. His turnovers are really high and his outside shooting is suspect.

Defenses are going to start playing him for penetration. That's not to say he's not going to be an effective point guard, but it looks like his stardom is going to be short lived.

If I had to predict his numbers after the allstar break I'd go with

31 min, 15 ppg, 6.4 ast, 3.5 reb, 1 stl, 3 to, on 47%
Fg, 32% 3's, 72% ft

2/13/2012 7:51:46 AM

Quote :

"Now if you used something relevant like DYAR, then you'd understand that Vick was a great QB. "

Vick's NFL rankings in DYAR by season:
2001 - 35th
2002 - 16th
2003 - 32nd
2004 - 40th
2005 - 29th
2006 - 43rd
2007 - possibly first in his prison league
2008 - see above
2009 - just 13 attempts
2010 - 13th
2011 - 11th


Great = almost getting into the top 10 in that stat by the age of 31

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 8:24 AM. Reason : a]

2/13/2012 8:23:40 AM

Hmm, if that's correct ill admit I was wrong in that argument but that seems suspect.

They went 13-3 one year and the team was like 25% winning percentage without him

2/13/2012 8:31:07 AM

Ah wait. Isn't dyar a cumulative stat and didn't vick miss games that year? That could explain it obviously


V yes 2004 is the year vick dominated and sat vick for the last two weeks after they rolled the division.

Well needlenose Ned, I'd love to sit here and rehash an argument I had eight years ago but I'm not going to.

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 8:47 AM. Reason : later]

2/13/2012 8:33:21 AM

Season win totals for Vick's teams:
2001 - 7
2002 - 9
2003 - 5
2004 - 11 (assuming this is the season you had in mind - http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2004)
2005 - 8
2006 - 7
2010 - 10
2011 - 8


^Vick played in 15 games in 2004. Doubt the game he missed would have propelled him from 40th to top 10. Though it would be fair to say he may have got top 10 without missed games the last 2 years. However, to say he was ever more than a league average QB while he was with Atlanta is categorically false

Looking back at GP for him, he only played in less than 15 games twice - 2001 (8 games as a rookie) & just 5 games in 2003

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 8:46 AM. Reason : bottom part]

2/13/2012 8:38:38 AM

Why the fuck is Michael Vick being discussed in this thread?

2/13/2012 9:35:06 AM

Lin has clearly established himself as a much better player than Kobe has ever been

2/13/2012 11:09:32 AM

Lin has clearly established himself as a much better player than Vick has ever been

2/13/2012 11:13:04 AM

Lin's legs gave out on him in the 2nd half against the T-Wolves. Awfully tough to hit a jumpshot or penetrate effectively when you have dead legs.

Fatigue is temporary. Lin's ability to run the D'antoni offense and score in a variety of ways is clearly evident, and he should only improve.

[Edited on February 13, 2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason : 2]

2/13/2012 11:41:12 AM

Quote :

"SCULLY TOUGH"

2/13/2012 11:42:01 AM

Silly swype

2/13/2012 11:44:15 AM

Floyd Mayweather is such a douche

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/daily-take/201202/floyd-mayweather-plays-race-card-jeremy-lin

2/14/2012 9:46:51 AM

^

2/14/2012 1:06:31 PM

He should go back to what he does best.

Beating his girlfriend.

2/14/2012 1:36:11 PM

Ignorant fucks like him are one of the many reasons why racism will never die.

2/14/2012 7:58:21 PM

Lin's already got 5 TOs in the 1st half

2/14/2012 8:01:51 PM

yeah, another bad game for him. Shooting 4-9, too

2/14/2012 8:20:10 PM

True, but he is also leading the team in scoring at the half.

Even if it is only 9pts.

2/14/2012 8:22:08 PM

He should lead them in scoring if he is taking the most shots...

2/14/2012 8:25:28 PM

dagger

too many TOs still, but Amare certainly didn't help a lot with his 8-22 or whatever

[Edited on February 14, 2012 at 9:38 PM. Reason : ~]

2/14/2012 9:37:31 PM

Oh, the LINSANITY!

2/14/2012 9:37:33 PM

Quote :

"yeah, another bad game for him"

2/14/2012 9:41:04 PM

Quote :

" The team won, so nobody is complaining."

2/14/2012 9:46:28 PM

i was following on gamecast from the second half on, and it was very tebowesque, especially when they were down so much. it was like, "if he can bring them back and drop over 20, then it's going to be really hard to keep saying he's just a fluke."

hitting the 3 with .5 seconds left was about as perfectly as it could have been scripted.

2/14/2012 9:46:35 PM

THIS IS NOTHING LIKE TIM TEBOW

FUCKING STOP WITH THAT COMPARISON

2/14/2012 9:49:38 PM

The media has already dubbed him Steve Nash 2.0 and the best PG in the NBA, why not compare him to every athlete ever?

2/14/2012 9:55:01 PM

whatever...the question isn't whether he's the real deal, that's a separate discussion.

but a guy who wasn't starting coming on and leading a losing team to repeated success, with people doubting whether or not he's a fluke or has legit skills, and somehow pulling out last second victories, and you can't see ANY comparison? not even addressing the "aww, shucks" nature of both of them.

maybe you think tebow actually isn't a good QB and Jeremy Lin has skills, but missing the comparison seems pretty shortsighted.

2/14/2012 9:55:19 PM

and the Orange and Blue colors...

2/14/2012 9:56:14 PM

It also has to do with the fact they are both devout Christians.

2/14/2012 9:56:28 PM

I agree with fuckjuice. It was a very Tebowesque game. He played like shit the first 3 quarters, and then brought them back from behind with an awesome 4th, complete with the game-winning play.

2/14/2012 9:57:41 PM

People want to compare him to Steve Nash which is pretty hilarious to me. If you want to say they're both pass-first point guards with great court vision, then OK, but that's about the only valid comparison.

Nash is a 50/43/90 shooter, Lin is 50/25/80 with some free throw practice

But the main reason I hate the comparison and my main knock on Lin and the main reason I'm making this post, is Lin just isn't that good of a passer. Yeah he's probably averaging 8-9 assists the last half dozen games, but have you seen him actually pass the ball? Somebody like Nash or CP3 or Kidd delivers it right to the chest, even on no-looks, jump-passes and other razzle dazzle. Lin kicks it to the perimeter to a shooter who has to jump to catch the pass. He drives and dishes down low to a big who has to bend over to catch a pass.

He knows when to pass it, and who to pass it to, but he needs to work on his range of motion or something.

Quote :

"THIS IS NOTHING LIKE TIM TEBOW FUCKING STOP WITH THAT COMPARISON "

actually he does talk with a very similar accent and cadence and he is a hardcore bible thumper...let alone the obvious media hype comparisons...so it is actually a lot like tebowmania

2/14/2012 9:58:28 PM