pryderi:

Basically she was asking for a $12,000(4yrs*3k) handout in order to keep her vagina from getting babies and making her feel pms-y while in college.


Fun fact time!
Let's assume 20% of college girls apply for this.... (800k females * 12k for total price)
it's only a 9.6 billion dollar program. hell. i have that much in my back pocket. FUND IT


[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:20 AM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 10:15:02 AM

It cost her $3000 a year because it wasn't part of her insurance. Just about any medication is going to be ridiculously expensive when not insured, that's how the health industry penalizes the uninsured. As the research I linked on the other page shows, actually providing contraception lowers premiums over the long term. Objections to this are not rooted in the money aspect of it.

Quote :

"it's only a 9.6 billion dollar program."

It isn't a "program". This is about a law that would require insurers to provide it, not a government program to provide it. Congrats on demonstrating your ignorance of the most basic, basic facts of this issue.

Quote :

"handout"

It's not a handout, this is about an insurance she's a part of and her and her employer pay into.

Quote :

"in order to keep her vagina from getting babies and making her feel pms-y while in college."

Now here's what the issue is really about: Some people just hate the idea of women having as much sexual freedom as men. So strongly that they'll actively advocate against their own financial interests in the name of slut-shaming.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:23 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 10:19:21 AM

Wait so which one do you want. Is this about free insurance for her now? Because that's an economic issue as well. (~2 Trillion)

Or is this another social-government-welfare population control / women control pet project the left is obsessed with at the moment? (>10 billion for this specific drug in college) It's also an economic issue, but you are right. It's mostly a social experiment

3/15/2012 10:25:48 AM

Quote :

"Wait so which one do you want. Is this about free insurance for her now? Because that's an economic issue as well. (~2 Trillion)"

No, it's about her insurer that she already pays for providing contraception as part of women's health. This saves money overall for the insurer, the college, the students, and everybody except the folks who profit from unintended pregnancies happening.

Quote :

"Or is this another social-government-welfare population control / women control pet project the left is obsessed with at the moment? (>10 billion for this specific drug in college) It's also an economic issue, but you are right. It's mostly a social experiment"

Yes, it's a social experiment in "letting women control their own bodies". That's not quite control, it's actually exactly the opposite. You're the one who has already demonstrated you want to control their bodies, otherwise you wouldn't so obviously demonize women who have recreational sex in your first post on this page.


[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:30 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 10:29:06 AM

Women are not currently allowed to freely go out and obtain birth control in the United States?

We are just now beginning to allow women to have birth control with this new form of coverage you are sponsoring? That's what you are arguing about??

HA. /thread.


[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason : And 'we' want to control womens bodies? Yeh man u got us. Remote controlled women is the future]

3/15/2012 10:35:04 AM

This would require insurers to provide contraception as part of their women's health package. This is so that women don't have to pay $3000 for a yearly supply of birth control, and instead can get it as they would any other insured medication.


Do you have any other questions about the basic nature of this controversy? I've never seen somebody so strongly opinionated about an issue they don't even know the nature of. It's almost as though you act opinionated for the sake of acting opinionated, perhaps to hide your general ignorance.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 10:49:00 AM

make sure the 'mens package' has 1000mg tren, epistane, test injections, anavar and dbol.

i just want the right to control my body. i know you want to have feverish control over it but i won't rest until this is 100% free and legalized.




[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 10:52:51 AM

It's a little stunning that you think "Not wanting to be pregnant/have ovarian cancer" is as frivolous a desire as "Wanting to beef up my pecs"

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 10:55:10 AM

It's about my body! It's not yours to control Str8foolish!

YOU CANT CONTROL MY BODY!

You don't understand. I can't afford it. therefore you are preventing me from obtaining it. therefore all democrats hate men. therefore you are evil social engineers. therefore you MUST provide me a financial way to have it for free!



#LOLDEMOCRATS

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 10:57:09 AM

It wouldn't be free you dumbass, it would be paid for by her insurance premiums, which would be lower over the long term for all the insured members if contraception were provided.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 10:58:19 AM

It's 100% obvious that there would be absolutely no cost in giving out 10-20 billion dollars worth of birth control.


100%

3/15/2012 10:59:29 AM

Hahaha holy fuck

Before this thread I thought pack_bryan might just be an awesome troll

nope

3/15/2012 11:01:47 AM

Quote :

"It's 100% obvious that there would be absolutely no cost in giving out 10-20 billion dollars worth of birth control."

Right now we're giving out 100's of billions of dollars in pre-post natal care, delivery, plus unplanned and often unhealthy children being added to the insurance rolls for 18-25 years afterwards.

Do you avoid oil changes too, because you don't want to shell out $30?

3/15/2012 11:03:58 AM

Yay more racists, leftists, work-ophobes are joining the thread!

This is definitely going to convince more of us that offsetting 10-20 billion dollars to the burden of the taxpayers and private sector is the perfect solution for "letting women control their bodies" as a constitutionally protected privilege!

YAY for more govt!

^AWESOME. so this is about population control. Thanks for coming clean finally. I know it's a serious concern for the left since the fundamental principles you believe in are that humans are bad and need to be controlled by govenments.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 11:06:02 AM

Quote :

"^AWESOME. so this is about population control. Thanks for coming clean finally. I know it's a serious concern for the left since the fundamental principles you believe in are that humans are bad and need to be controlled by govenments."

What the fuck man? What is your problem? Do you seriously, honestly believe that "enabling people to only have babies when they want to" is population control? Nobody's being forced to take contraceptives, here. This is population self-control.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 11:12:43 AM

exactly. remove the shitty deformed population that your welfare state can't afford to take care of...

problem solved!

3/15/2012 11:18:07 AM

This is insurance rolls, not welfare. It's the other people on insurance who have to pay for these unwanted pregnancies, not the taxpayers.

Is there a single aspect of this issue you actually understand? Just one?

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 11:24:02 AM

"The Pill" is used for more reasons than birth control:
Excerpt of Fluke's testimony:

Quote :

"Without her taking the birth control, a massive cyst the size of a tennis ball had grown on her ovary. She had to have surgery to remove her entire ovary. On the morning I was originally scheduled to give this testimony, she sat in a doctor’s office. Since last year’s surgery, she’s been experiencing night sweats, weight gain, and other symptoms of early menopause as a result of the removal of her ovary. She’s 32 years old. As she put it: “If my body indeed does enter early menopause, no fertility specialist in the world will be able to help me have my own children. I will have no chance at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies, simply because the insurance policy that I paid for totally unsubsidized by my school wouldn’t cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it.” Now, in addition to potentially facing the health complications that come with having menopause at an early age– increased risk of cancer, heart disease, and osteoporosis, she may never be able to conceive a child."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/06/context-sandra-fluke-contraceptives-and-womens-hea/

Why is Viagra covered by insurance?

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM. Reason : ....]

3/15/2012 11:31:57 AM

^So she's blaming her genetic problems on a private university that doesn't cover birth control because it is against their religious beliefs? That's ridiculous. It's a shame that some people can't have children. But it's a fact of life and nobody's fault.

And Viagra shouldn't be covered, I think most reasonable people would agree on that.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason : k]

3/15/2012 12:20:56 PM

why stop at just regulating a specific function of it with hormones.

why not just remove the whole uterus and prevent a host of other possible cancers and issues.

i won't even bother to engage ^^/^^^ in conversation about how passionate you would be about covering sex change surgeries as a social 'right'.

/////

all radical left woman-controlling social issues aside.. let's just keep the momentum going on this bullet train to hyper inflation and crushing the healthcare industry

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 12:26 PM. Reason : -]

3/15/2012 12:26:00 PM

the fact that an individual attended Georgetown SPECIFICALLY to fight something the university as a whole doesn't believe in (which is their right) disgusts me.

3/15/2012 12:36:00 PM

Quote :

"the fact that an individual attended Georgetown SPECIFICALLY to fight something the university as a whole doesn't believe in "

That's a fact? Where did you get this information?

3/15/2012 12:55:40 PM

Quote :

"So she's blaming her genetic problems on a private university that doesn't cover birth control because it is against their religious beliefs? "

Birth control pills strongly deter ovarian cancer. What do you know, another person in this thread who has no fucking clue what they're talking about but KNOW that this Liberal Woman Who Has Sex must be wrong about whatever her cock-hole is sputtering out.

Quote :

"the fact that an individual attended Georgetown SPECIFICALLY to fight something the university as a whole doesn't believe in (which is their right) disgusts me."

Source, please. I really wanna see what triple-twisting of some quote went into arriving at this conclusion.

Quote :

"let's just keep the momentum going on this bullet train to hyper inflation and crushing the healthcare industry"

The only way providing contraceptions as part of insurance plans for women would "crush the healthcare industry" is by reducing the profits they gain from unwanted pregnancies. Other than that, doing so would reduce the overall costs for businesses, employees, universities, students, and the healthcare providers themselves (Assuming they aren't collecting larger payoffs from health providers to funnel unwanted pregnancies to them).

Quote :

"all radical left woman-controlling social issues aside"

You are seriously brain damaged, or evil, to claim that women having access to affordable, optional birth control is "controlling" them.

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 1:02:18 PM

dear health care industry, let me (big govt) force you to give 20 billion dollars worth of birth control to teenagers for ' ***free***' and pretend like its not going to cost any money or raise prices on everybody else


lets keep doing this for every single thing that we consider our stupid populous to idiotic to get for themselves and call it '[_____insert group we label as inferior_____] rights'







[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:20 PM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 1:12:46 PM

Quote :

"dear health care industry, let me (big govt) force you to give 20 billion dollars worth of birth control to teenagers for ' ***free***' and pretend like its not going to cost any money or raise prices on everybody else"

It's not free, they pay for it in their premiums like everything else.

It wont raise prices on everyone else because all the research done on the issue indicates that it's more cost-effective overall to provide the birth control than deal with the unwanted pregnancies, which insurance companies also do.

Not providing contraception forces everybody else to pay for abortions, pre-natal, delivery, and post-natal care of the mother, plus the health care of that unwanted child who is statistically more likely to suffer ill health than a wanted child.

Quote :

"lets keep doing this for every single thing that we consider our stupid populous to idiotic to get for themselves and call it '[_____insert group we label as inferior_____] rights'"

You're retarded. The most responsible way to get medication of any kind is through insurance. The most cost-effective way to administer insurance is with birth control RATHER than abortions/pre-natal care after the fact. The only reason it's not offered is because anti-woman businesses preferentially shop for insurance that doesn't provide it, so there's incentive for insurers not to provide it simply because it would cut anti-woman organizations out of their market. It's a clear cut case of bigotry distorting the market.


[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:30 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 1:25:28 PM

i need to be like you guys more and think of more 'rights' and start protesting for the government to pay for it for me (directly or indirectly)

3/15/2012 1:30:35 PM

This has nothing to do with the government paying anything. If anything, bigoted organizations like Georgetown are indirectly making you pay higher health insurance premiums right now by denying birth control and instead devoting their resources to the far more expensive costs of unwanted pregnancies.


I mean, I'm amazed. I've explained this simple fact 50 times from every angle and you still don't get it. Sandra Fluke could probably walk up to you personally and hand you $3000 and you'd still scream "STOP TRYING TO TAKE MY MONEY YOU LIBERAL WHORE!"

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:33 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 1:31:58 PM

let me print this 20 billion for you to 'medicate' your women in this social experiment then. since there's obviously no cost to any organization for it.


god knows. they'll finally be saved by the elite liberal party. how have they survived all these centuries without proper birth control pills to take daily

3/15/2012 1:36:03 PM

conclusion: bad troll

not smart enough to keep his persona up and actually become epic/funny

but nobody's that fucking stupid in real life, not even aaronburro

3/15/2012 1:37:25 PM

don't worry mcdanger. you'll soon be able to get your woman some BC pills for a reasonable price

i'll be happy to increase my premium to help pay for it for you

all prenatal / abortions / pregnancy costs will magically disappear when we implement this program

it's the least i can do to help save a fellow citizen who is incapable of taking care of himself and big superman government can come into the rescue and save

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:50 PM. Reason : -]

3/15/2012 1:48:56 PM

Quote :

"how have they survived all these centuries without proper birth control pills to take daily"

Mostly by abandoning what few career prospects they had (Thanks to gender discrimination) and entering marriages characterized by servitude and deference to the husband-breadwinner.

3/15/2012 1:49:44 PM

Quote :

"i'll be happy to increase my premium to help pay for it for you"

It will decrease your premium, not increase it.

Quote :

"all prenatal / abortions / pregnancy costs will magically disappear when we implement this program "

The larger part of them will, far in excess of the cost of providing the birth control, this is already evidenced and studied.

http://www.businessgrouphealth.org/benefitstopics/topics/purchasers/condition_specific/evidencestatements/contraceptiveuse_es.pdf


[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:51 PM. Reason : .]

3/15/2012 1:50:25 PM

hey guys i have an idea. we could save even more costs on healthcare if we simply voluntarily neuter males at birth.

YES. HEALTHCARE BUDGET CRISIS AVERTED

it's genius. no bc. no abortions. no nothing!!! and even better... it could be a government program.. (i know i won your whole hearted support there.. but be calm!)

it feels so good finally to embrace full liberalism. ha. i have an even better one.... let's make a law that requires you to have a certain IQ to reproduce. then we can control our society and FORCE it to integrate better and be less racist!

[Edited on March 15, 2012 at 1:58 PM. Reason : ,]

3/15/2012 1:55:56 PM

Quote :

"voluntarily neuter males at birth."

Hm yes, women are like babies, who's to say if anything they do is truly voluntary?

3/15/2012 2:10:03 PM

ok we can up the age to something like age 10 if you like. or whatever age you like..... when do you think a human can properly judge and form an opinion to help in the great liberal plan to stop huge abortion/birth/pre natal costs that are obviously wrecking this grand government healthcare plan?

3/15/2012 3:55:24 PM

Most insurance policies already cover voluntary male sterilization, it's called a "vasectomy" and I strongly urge you to look into one.

3/15/2012 4:28:06 PM

you know.... to come perfectly clean str8foolish... deep down i really dont reject anything you say...

it all comes down to this.... as soon as we learn how to easily fuse 2 hydrogen atoms and create nothing but energy and harmless gas as a byproduct .... we're going to be able to take care of everybody's health care/ food / etc etc etc... all kinds of awesome humane social projects.

it's gonna be in our lifetimes too. people only see the short term doom and gloom. no republican is against this. it's nothing but a cleverly designed mass media frenzy

just wait until about 2035-2040.

until we get to that day though... there's a little plowing and toiling and laboring and sweating. humans are going to have to work just a tad... until then....

STOP FOSTERING AND ENCOURAGING LAZY IDIOTIC HUMAN BEHAVIOR SO MUCH. ITS TEARING EVERYBODY ELSE DOWN WITH IT AND SCREWING US ALL IN THE LONG RUN

3/15/2012 5:02:40 PM

Back then we didn't have these fancy birth control methods. Like pulling out.

3/15/2012 8:25:31 PM

WE ARE LITERALLY PAYING WOMENZ TO HAVE SEX WITH LARGE BLACK MEN

3/27/2012 10:40:31 AM

Quote :

"Seriously, you wouldn't say any of the shit you say on here if we were in a face to face discussion as opposed to online. You're just getting a charge out of being a dickbag because you won't get your ass kicked. Do your friends know that you're like this, or are they the same sort of frightened suburban pussies you are?"

lol

3/27/2012 11:16:09 AM

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:20 PM. Reason : ...]

3/27/2012 1:17:52 PM

The pill ranges from $15-60 for a monthly supply, depending on your insurance (if you have any). For women who can't take the pill (many women can't, the hormonal affects are too strong or have side effects). A nuvaring or depo-provera is more, usually $50-80.

If you think the cost is insignificant, consider that the poorer you are, the more like you are to have unplanned pregnancies, so the cost essentially becomes more significant the more you need it. If you really, truly feel the cost is so minor, then what's wrong with insurance companies having to provide it? Especially considering how much cheaper it is than pre-natal, post-natal care + the actual birthing + the addition of that child to the insurance rolls.

3/27/2012 1:25:40 PM

so we'll be solving the african american fatherless epidemic with a few drugs... NICE


no more of these problems:
http://www.fatherhood.org/media/consequences-of-father-absence-statistics

-72 percent of African American children are born to unwed mothers

-90 percent of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes

-85 percent of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes

-71 percent of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes

-Children in father-absent homes are five times more likely to be poor. In 2002, 7.8 percent of children in married-couple families were living in poverty, compared to 38.4 percent of children in female-householder families.

-Infant mortality rates are 1.8 times higher for infants of unmarried mothers than for married mothers.

-Unmarried mothers are less likely to obtain prenatal care and more likely to have a low birth-weight baby.

-A study of 3,400 middle schoolers indicated that not living with both biological parents quadruples the risk of having an affective disorder.

-Twenty-three percent of unmarried mothers in large U.S. cities reported cigarette use during their pregnancy.

-A child with a nonresident father is 54 percent more likely to be poorer than his or her father.

3/27/2012 2:26:36 PM

pack bryan is such a terrible human being

3/27/2012 2:34:30 PM

i blame the internet. i'm just 'the victim'


no but it's funny seeing you flail about when you get your shit pwnt constantly and have to resort to sophomoric name calling to even continue the conversation



[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ,]

3/27/2012 2:41:35 PM

Quote :

"-72 percent of African American children are born to unwed mothers"

Actually, increased access to birth control would probably be the number one most effective way to mitigate this, and all your other issues stem from it. So yeah, giving them birth control drugs would probably solve a shitload of their problems. You know, so women can have more options than chastity and getting knocked up.

Also, who mentioned African Americans? Is there any subject you wont take as an opportunity to trash non-whites?

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 9:59:43 AM