Christ.

Really?

5/3/2012 3:46:43 PM

Getting married is infinitely easier than dating. After the initiation period, thats it. Sure, you'll argue, bitch, and secretly plot to kill your spouse, but everyone does that. Dating is an endless series of first impressions. You always have to be on your game. After folks get married, its pretty much all downhill as far as making an effort is concerned, until one or both you inevitably become self aware of your plight and make drastic changes to course correct before you either divorce, kill each other, or both need lap band. Anyone can get married, but serial daters earn my respect.

5/3/2012 3:50:04 PM

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd argue otherwise.

Marriage means a lifelong commitment to fucking the same person, dealing with their irritating habits , and knowing that unless you cheat or open up the marriage, you'll never see another person's genitals for the first time again. Ever.

Dating is easy. All you have to do to be good at it is pretend to care about the person long enough to get in the sack until you dump them- after, of course, you've figured out a way to bring up one of their glaring flaws in a calculated way that doesn't make you look like as much of an asshole. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Plus children are a fucking nightmare. Anyone who can put up with 18+ years of that bullshit deserves a goddamn medal in my book

[Edited on May 3, 2012 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2012 3:57:18 PM

Quote :

"Compared to most populations the users of TWW are probably in one of the safest marriage brackets statistically."

haha, yes, and I was also just about to also make the point that they are possibly the least likely to get married.

Quote :

"Binary choice doesn't mean equal probabilities "

yes it does. You're assuming further knowledge. Without that further knowledge is is exactly 50/50.

5/3/2012 3:58:12 PM

in both cases, all it takes is 1 crazy bitch

5/3/2012 4:06:55 PM

I wonder how many of those 50% have been divorced 2 or 3 times

5/3/2012 9:51:10 PM

up

11/12/2013 4:14:23 PM

Quote :

"Plus children are a fucking nightmare."

Getting married has nothing to do with having children

11/12/2013 4:30:09 PM

It's a freaking paper you sign for legal reasons...marriage/divorce are not end alls. It's just a normal breakup with more paperwork and the other person tries to take your shit.

11/12/2013 4:46:03 PM

Getting married was the stupidest decision I ever made. Not saying that's the case for everyone, but I will probably never "go there" again.

11/14/2013 10:46:32 AM

^ Already divorced or separated?

Just for curiosity's sake, I wonder who on this site has been divorced, is in the process of a divorce, or is slowly heading down that road.

I know thumper and eleusis, Joie and d7freestyler are public knowledge...as well as piddlebug and Biofreak70. lewoods keeps talking about how shitty her SO is and that she's probably heading that way...but it's probably just her normal bitching.

Who else am I missing?

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

11/14/2013 11:24:00 AM

grimx and roseathena.

11/14/2013 11:47:45 AM

yep

11/14/2013 11:49:54 AM

I can think of a bunch of divorcée TWW dudes now that I think about it.

11/14/2013 11:52:55 AM

Prenup's are insurance for marriage, his/hers attornies will bill you for what, 3-4 hours, maybe a grand or two to draw one up that both parties agree to and sign? Along the car metpahor in OP, the law mandates you insure your vehicle in case you wreck someone elses. And car insurance costs a lot more than a grand or two over a life time. Is protecting the other car (legally bound to do) worth more than your marriage if you "wreck it?" I guess those that are (supiciously I might add) against prenups may feel this way.

It would be better if the law mandated prenups so there would be no finger pointing when the 50% need it. But yes, 90% of divorces are broke folks so it's really a small amount that have any $ left over after the lawyers are paid.

A couple with $$$ and a son/daughter about to marry on someone in a "lower tax bracket" would be smart just to put the big purchases (cars, houses, etc) in the parent(s) name. That can also alleviate the need for a prenup somewhat. You would look more than suspicious if you had a house bought for you and your spouse with someone else's money and you griped about your name being left off.

11/14/2013 12:02:36 PM

I'm not against pre-nups...but I just think it's horrible to "prepare" for a divorce at the same time you are promising to be with someone for the rest of your lives.

"I love you to death right now...but I might not later...who knows?!?! But just in case that happens, I want to make sure you aren't in a great financial situation when it all comes crumbling down...but I still want to be well off and not help you out at all...because seriously..I'll probably hate you at that point anyways. That sound good? Cool, sign right here. Maybe we can get your parents to be witnesses."

11/14/2013 1:12:39 PM

I'm in the final stages of my divorce.

11/14/2013 1:32:24 PM

^^ A Prenup is obviously not a fun situation, however, the way to project it is not "honey I'm protecting me from me and my own bad decisions" as you can 100% control your own actions and would look moronic to do so. The thought process needs to be "I'm protecting me from everyone and everything else that I have no control over" which would obviously include your future spouse. I certainly cannot predict the future and cannot predict hypothetically somoene having a crisis, going bi polar, developing anger issues, or just plain sucking at everyday life, etc. etc. If you are able to say without a doubt what the future holds and can predict the actions of others, my hat's off to you. It's also fun to look at the opinions about life issues like this from that of a 25-35 year old vs a 65-75 year old. I'll take experience over not any day of the week.

If someone was actually under the line of thinking that the message you intend to convey to your future spouse is that a prenup is to bail yourself out of your own transgressions, you probably don't have any assets to begin with because you are more than likely not that bright.

And again, taken out of context was that "I don't want to help you out at all." No, the idea is to protect what you've earned and what is yours. Spinning that as "not helping at all" is just that, spin. Clearly, minor children nullifies some of this to a great extent as there are laws in place for that. The party line from people adamantly against prenups say it shouldn't be about money, well marriage shouldn't be, but divorce sure is and those events that led to a divorce get quantified every day in family court so it's hard to dispute. It's funny how for trivial material possessions we protect them with insurance, but with our entire livlihood some wealthy people throw (for pennies essentially) caution to the wind by not getting it in writing.

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/14/2013 1:41:48 PM

Prenups are definitely a good idea because they force you to talk about how you will handle finances when you are married and not just how things will happen if you divorce. I wish more people would get financial counseling before they got married, or at least sit down and have an adult discussion about how you will handle money. We did this since I'm in school but will make more than him once I get out and decided to keep separate accounts. Only time it's a problem is when I do him a favor and pay for something of his, then have to harass his lazy ass for a check.

11/14/2013 1:44:01 PM

My wife and I talked about a pre-nup in the context of, "I love you a lot, and I hope to spend the rest of my life with you, but we both come from divorced families, so this is obviously a possibility." We ultimately decided against, mainly because neither of us really had savings, capital, or heirlooms to speak of anyway, so it was sort of pointless.

ETA: ^We took a financial class together and opted for a joint checking/savings with individual accounts for gifts and blow money. It was really great to take the class and to have the talk about budgeting and money and such though. I definitely agree it's something couples should consider doing.

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM. Reason : ,]

11/14/2013 1:47:33 PM

Quote :

"Prenups are definitely a good idea because they force you to talk about how you will handle finances when you are married and not just how things will happen if you divorce."

You should be able to do this without having to bring up a pre-nup.

11/14/2013 1:52:11 PM

Saying you should have a prenup so you talk about finances going into marriage is like saying you should build an underground bunker so you will talk about how to prepare for a storm.

If you're relatively evenly matched financially going into your marriage, I don't really see the point. But then again, I don't know that much about them. We didn't get one.

11/14/2013 1:53:30 PM

And lol at comparing a pre-nup to car insurance. holy shit.

11/14/2013 1:55:33 PM

Maybe it's because I'm poor, but I don't feel like the average Joe needs a prenup. It seems simple to just take the stuff you came in with and move on. It's the stuff you acquired together that is the hard part to hash out. But maybe prenups deal with that, too. I don't know.

I have no idea how I did financially with my divorce. I know that our lawyers weren't very expensive because we din't really need one; so the hours were very minimal. I gave up my rights to our house, but I don't know if that was really worth anything since we had hardly any equity.

He did keep a few kitchen items that my grandmother gave me... and now she's passed on. So I'm more upset about that than anything money related.

Other than that I just took the items that were definitely mine. I even left some things that were gifts from him to me just to avoid the argument.

11/14/2013 1:55:35 PM

The good thing for me is that my fiance was previously divorced and I have gotten to see how she handled that which makes me feel much more confident that should anything ever happen she isn't going to try to screw me. She makes more money than me though so thats probably a reason too

11/14/2013 2:01:18 PM

How long were the TWW marriages?

11/14/2013 2:21:50 PM

ITT i learned NCSUHippie was previously married

11/14/2013 2:22:05 PM

Quote :

"And lol at comparing a pre-nup to car insurance"

I felt like tying that in to the OP about wrecking stats for some entertainment... But you DID just prove my point. Most everyone would agree that the trivial possession of your vehicle is dwarfed in comparison to your life partner. Law dicates you CYA for your measely old car/house/boat etc. Your marriage, which is exponentially more important (hopefully), the law says nothing. It's a bit interesting to me at least. But again, I cannot predict the actions of others or any aspect of the future with 100% accuracy. Give me some stock tips if anyone else can.

And again, while marriage shouldn't be at all comparable to material possessions or money in general, everything in divorce court is accounted for by money/assets when going in different directions.

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2013 2:22:45 PM

We had the financial conversation way before even getting engaged; if you wait for pre-marriage counseling to review financials together then you area already too late. Don't you want to know how much debt/assets someone has before you get engaged? I certainly wouldn't want to be surprised that my future spouse has $100k in debt or something after getting engaged.

11/14/2013 2:27:55 PM

Quote :

"It seems simple to just take the stuff you came in with and move on."

It sounds like you had a very respectful, amicable divorce (minus the sentimental kitchen things - what was his deal with that?). A lot of divorces, my boyfriend's included, are not so simple, and when one person is out to get the other, common courtesy and common sense go out the window. His ex hated guns, yet tried to take his heirloom rifles passed down from his great grandfather that were very special to him. She also tried to take other gifts that had been given specifically to him from his parents throughout their marriage.

When all is said and done this divorce will have ended up costing them a cumulative $100k. It's so sad.

11/14/2013 2:34:46 PM

Mandated insurance on things is really for the "OTHER" person in any incident so they don't get screwed. For example, car accidents where the at-fault party is vs isn't insured. House insurance is similar. As far as I know, insurance is only required when you have a mortgage (though you'd be silly not to insure most homes even when paid off). You are getting loaned money while you pay off and live in the house - it protects the bank from losing the asset they have while loaning you money.

Those kind of insurances are less about you and more about them/other affected parties.


We obviously had financial discussions (and were already on bored and doing stuff together well before we got married which I know is not typical) but didn't bother with a prenup or anything.

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 2:37 PM. Reason : ]

11/14/2013 2:35:03 PM

I think you really understand what happens in a divorce. I also think people think of pre-nups and picture the rich old man and the bimbo young girl...and the girl taking half his money. Yeah...that happens, but rarely. And only in California is there the straight 50% of everything. Stuff is split in half...but those are marital assets and they normally should be split in half. Knock yourself out arguing about alimony, but in general it's about fair as its every going to get. Where most men (or in some rare cases, women) get raped is in child support (again...another debate).

Again...I'm not against pre-nups. And the Hugh Hefner's of the world should definitely have them. But in general, amicable divorces are fair...there just aren't that many amicable divorces.

11/14/2013 2:36:01 PM

Quote :

"Knock yourself out arguing about alimony, but in general it's about fair as its every going to get. Where most men (or in some rare cases, women) get raped is in child support (again...another debate)."

His ex gets nearly half his paycheck*, and the spousal support portion is MORE than the child support portion (for two kids, combined). UUUUUUGH. fuck divorce.

*she doesn't work (or "contribute to the marital standard of living"). both kids are in school. you tell me how that is "about fair".

11/14/2013 2:40:27 PM

We talked prenup because I have significant assets: property and cash. My FIL is also a lawyer so it made sense to at least discuss it. In the end, we decided against it. Divorce is not in our vocabulary. The concept is pretty foreign in both our families. However, all of the property and money I brought into the marriage has stayed solely in my name.

11/14/2013 2:53:41 PM

isn't he in California? That might as well be a different country as far as I'm concerned. And without knowing the entire circumstances, I really can't make a comment on what's fair in every particular case

11/14/2013 2:55:08 PM

Quote :

"A lot of divorces, my boyfriend's included, are not so simple, and when one person is out to get the other, common courtesy and common sense go out the window. His ex hated guns, yet tried to take his heirloom rifles passed down from his great grandfather that were very special to him. She also tried to take other gifts that had been given specifically to him from his parents throughout their marriage. "

You don't say?......... For the end part, this is exactly my point for suggesting it might be wise for everyone to consider getting stuff in writing beforehand, even besdies high net worth folks. How on earth should someone be entitled to half of another's deceased grandfather's possessions? Will the guy keep his grandfather's stuff, maybe, but the stress is penalty enough. And beyond that, "Things" also don't halve very neatly either I'm guessing, a 401k might, but not an antique or heirloom. This goes back to that whole idea folks shouldn't be penalized for someone ELSE going nuts in a divorce. I'm curious if your friend gets married again will he have something in writing after having the experience of this pleasant incident if he even gets married at all again.

[Edited on November 14, 2013 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2013 3:19:50 PM

Dear lord I wont even go into child support and alimony type stuff that is where divorces can actually get ugly. I am not directly affected by these things and they still piss me off by how little sense they generally make.

11/14/2013 3:20:47 PM

For some strange reason, people get pretty nasty after you've promised to spend your life with them and things don't work out. It's really just a roll of the dice to see how badly they'll want to ruin the rest of your life, but I guess some people just think that love and promises are these everlasting, magical forces which will prevent bad things from happening. LOL. Prenup plz

11/14/2013 3:37:04 PM

Quote :

"How long were the TWW marriages?"

In my case, married for 7, together for 14. Started dating freshman year at State, went through all that, being poor for a few years, got married and just about the time I felt like we were getting our shit together and having a good, comfortable life she bailed.

11/14/2013 4:13:21 PM

damn dude that sucks!!

11/14/2013 4:28:47 PM

For me: Together for almost nine years, married for almost four.

We had many issues in the last two years, but I think the ones that really started to split us up were fairly major life goals. He became obsessed with obtaining a certain salary and having nicer stuff, including a bigger house. And I didn't give a shit about all that. And because of his goals he never really wanted to go out with friends (you know, to save money) or do much of anything.

I also think that depression, on both our parts, caused a lot of issues.

11/14/2013 5:14:16 PM

Quote :

"^^ A Prenup is obviously not a fun situation, however, the way to project it is not "honey I'm protecting me from me and my own bad decisions" as you can 100% control your own actions and would look moronic to do so. The thought process needs to be "I'm protecting me from everyone and everything else that I have no control over" which would obviously include your future spouse. I certainly cannot predict the future and cannot predict hypothetically somoene having a crisis, going bi polar, developing anger issues, or just plain sucking at everyday life, etc. etc. If you are able to say without a doubt what the future holds and can predict the actions of others, my hat's off to you. It's also fun to look at the opinions about life issues like this from that of a 25-35 year old vs a 65-75 year old. I'll take experience over not any day of the week. If someone was actually under the line of thinking that the message you intend to convey to your future spouse is that a prenup is to bail yourself out of your own transgressions, you probably don't have any assets to begin with because you are more than likely not that bright. And again, taken out of context was that "I don't want to help you out at all." No, the idea is to protect what you've earned and what is yours. Spinning that as "not helping at all" is just that, spin. Clearly, minor children nullifies some of this to a great extent as there are laws in place for that. The party line from people adamantly against prenups say it shouldn't be about money, well marriage shouldn't be, but divorce sure is and those events that led to a divorce get quantified every day in family court so it's hard to dispute. It's funny how for trivial material possessions we protect them with insurance, but with our entire livlihood some wealthy people throw (for pennies essentially) caution to the wind by not getting it in writing. "

I like your thinking. A lot.

11/14/2013 5:49:03 PM

this is a sad thread. as a romantic, my number one goal in life is to marry and start a family. some of this shit would just be devastating beyond coming back for me

11/15/2013 4:33:20 AM

Nobody goes into marriage thinking that they will eventually get divorced...but it happens...A LOT. You'd be naive to think that your relationship is somehow immune to all of the things that cause divorce in other marriages.

11/15/2013 7:12:52 AM

^eh, my life plan:
1. get married (check)
2. have kids (check)
3. midlife crisis (really looking forward to this one)
4. divorce
5. next marriage (hot single mom type?)
6. repeat

11/15/2013 7:47:13 AM

That seems pretty realistic. Good luck with that.

11/15/2013 7:51:02 AM

Poor kids.

[Edited on November 15, 2013 at 8:31 AM. Reason : Poor kiiiids!]

11/15/2013 8:30:57 AM

11/15/2013 9:13:27 AM