Quote :

"The touchpad support has gotten MUCH better. The mouse affordances have gotten MUCH better."

In 2011 we started with a shitty effort, and we've improved it to almost useable! Perhaps people will abandon a platform they love for something thats OK (because we are MSFT they have to...right?)

Quote :

"And no doubt the developer community will come out with mods for Win8 that make it more desktop friendly in the same way they have for Win95, 98, XP and 7 "

Maybe some third party can fix our shitty product, because God knows our 92k employees cannot...

6/19/2012 8:32:01 PM

Quote :

"In 2011 we started with a shitty effort, and we've improved it to almost useable! Perhaps people will abandon a platform they love for something thats OK (because we are MSFT they have to...right?) "

I will never use Microsoft products ever again! No matter how much they improve....they will ALWAYS be shitty!

Quote :

"Maybe some third party can fix our shitty product, because God knows our 92k employees cannot..."

Every OS should be perfect out of the box! Why should I ever have to download anything? Microsoft should know what I want by now!

6/20/2012 7:25:18 AM

Quote :

"Every OS should be perfect out of the box! Why should I ever have to download anything? Microsoft should know what I want by now!"

i know you're being sarcastic, but microsoft has a history of backsliding...the fact that windows 7 STILL can't fucking remember how i want my folders set (yes, i like lists and not thumbnails on everything) after i tell it 10 times a day is completely ridiculous

i'll give microsoft credit for coming to their senses and allowing folks to move their user folders (IIRC, this wasn't introduced until SP1...it certainly wasn't available in the win7 RTM because i bitched about it and Noen told me i was a "power user" and only a small portion of the customer base wanted that functionality)

an let's not get into the fact that ultramon/displayfusion is still the only usable option for multiple displays in windows...until 8, i suppose, though they might fuck that up, too

[Edited on June 20, 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason : tell me again, why did WinFS not make it into win7?]

6/20/2012 11:15:27 AM

Quote :

"an let's not get into the fact that ultramon/displayfusion is still the only usable option for multiple displays in windows...until 8, i suppose, though they might fuck that up, too"

This is frustrating.

Also I have never used the built in file manager. Been using Total Commander since Windows 3.

6/20/2012 11:21:52 AM

Quote :

"an let's not get into the fact that ultramon/displayfusion is still the only usable option for multiple displays in windows"

I've used multiple displays in Windows for 12+ years and never once felt the need to install either of those.

6/20/2012 11:42:23 AM

It's a requirement for me. I've got 3 screens running and without DisplayFusion heavy multitasking would be a nightmare. I've got IM messages and Outlook notifications popping up all the time and DisplayFusion adds task bars to the bottom of each monitor so I know which monitor alerts are occurring on. Not to mention all the software I run simply for work or play. Would be horrible trying to cram them all onto one taskbar. It would be so cluttered.

6/20/2012 11:49:58 AM

6/20/2012 12:11:36 PM

Quote :

"It's a requirement for me."

ditto...just something as simple as having the taskbar and relevant windows referenced on the same screen is mandatory (for me)

obviously, it's not required for windows to be usable, but it's one of those things that, after using it, i would be loathe to give up because it's just so darn nice

6/20/2012 12:37:03 PM

Shaggy wins this thread.

6/20/2012 11:41:09 PM

so....they fixed the problem with multi-monitor taskbars. what's your gripe?

6/21/2012 9:35:31 AM

^ i assume you didn't actually read anything that was written in its entirety if you think this is a specific complaint about an operating system that hasn't been released, yet

6/21/2012 10:47:03 AM

^i read it. it's been fixed even in the release preview. so, now that it's fixed...where's the beef?

I'm commenting on the specific gripe about the multi-monitor taskbars, not the other grievances. Why continue to complain about it when we're talking about the OS that's coming out that fixed it? That's all.



[Edited on June 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ]

6/21/2012 10:48:31 AM

I think we were just justifying our need for it because Stein said:

Quote :

"I've used multiple displays in Windows for 12+ years and never once felt the need to install either of those."

[Edited on June 21, 2012 at 11:03 AM. Reason : s]

6/21/2012 11:03:38 AM

gotcha. I need it too since I'm running 3 (sometimes 4) monitors myself. I just install ultramon and call it a day. I just never felt the need to have it integrated into the OS since there was a solution out there. I'm glad it is now though.

6/21/2012 11:29:42 AM

Ok. How about multiple desktops? Linux has had it for like 10 years. Mac has had it for 5. People have been wanting it since Linux has had it.

What's the hold up MS? You can give desktop users shet we don't want (Metro), but shit we do want you won't give us? Third party developers have done a half-assed job of implementing it.

There is no justifiable reason why MS hasn't implemented it.

6/21/2012 1:05:46 PM

Just buy more monitors.

6/21/2012 1:07:28 PM

because software

6/21/2012 1:31:29 PM

What software have they copied from apple for the surface?

6/21/2012 2:17:59 PM

I think this video might be fun to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac&feature=player_embedded

6/21/2012 2:33:46 PM

haha nice.

6/21/2012 2:42:08 PM

I don't have sound at work

But I assume that's just a video pointing out how buzzwords at product presentations make them all sound the same?

[Edited on June 21, 2012 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

6/21/2012 3:18:30 PM

Quote :

"What software have they copied from apple for the surface?"

Okay let me translate for you.

In 2002 Bill Gates introduces a third-party piece of hardware that tries to run a desktop version of windows. No one cares.

IN 2010, Steve Jobs introduces an integrated software and hardware solution that converts even non-believers in the "a large iPhone" to fans of tablet-style media consumption devises. The world is captivated by the tablet form factor with software dedicated for touch use only and all other manufacturers take notice and start trying to duplicate the experience.

In 2012 Microsoft arrives to the party late as hell when Steve Ballmer introduces the Surface, and during the introduction he proves once again that Microsoft failed to create a smooth and enjoyable user experience that could not think of in 2002 and that they unsuccessfully tried to copy from Apple during the last two years.

6/21/2012 4:26:39 PM

Quote :

"Microsoft failed to create a smooth and enjoyable user experience that could not think of in 2002 and that they unsuccessfully tried to copy from Apple during the last two years. "

Did your translation software fail here? What did they copy?

Windows 8/RT is a copy of ios? People have been trying to create a marketable tablet for years, Apple was the first to do it successfully, but people would have kept trying with or without the ipad. Obviously it's influenced strategy, but I don't remember all that many people accusing samsung/sony/whothefuckever for "copying" Pioneer when they released their own version of the Plasma TV.

6/21/2012 4:39:25 PM

Quote :

"Ok. How about multiple desktops? Linux has had it for like 10 years. Mac has had it for 5. People have been wanting it since Linux has had it. "

Microsoft came out with a Powertoy add-on back during XP

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/windows-xp

Click on the PowerToys tab:
Virtual Desktop Manager - Manage up to four desktops from the Windows taskbar.

Came out April 2002 (10 years ago)

Just because you don't care to look for it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

6/21/2012 4:59:27 PM

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-21/microsoft-s-surface-tablet-said-to-be-wi-fi-only-in-first-models.html

Wi-fi only at first. This whole thing has "half-assed" written all over it.

6/21/2012 11:26:21 PM

Quote :

"Windows 8/RT is a copy of ios? People have been trying to create a marketable tablet for years, Apple was the first to do it successfully, but people would have kept trying with or without the ipad. Obviously it's influenced strategy, but I don't remember all that many people accusing samsung/sony/whothefuckever for "copying" Pioneer when they released their own version of the Plasma TV."

Maybe "emulate" is the correct word to use. It is really something that can not be "copied". Yes, many of the concepts of touch interface were perfected by Apple and eventually emulated by other hardware/software companies, often not very successfully. Not to mention the hardware, which happens to be a fucking jewel of industrial design that was only comparable to the high end systems inaccessible to most people before Apple put their products out there and raised the bar for everyone else. I am not gonna get into a discussion about the individual patents, such as which university was first one to start researching things like multi-touch gestures. It is the entire Apple experience that everyone is trying to go after and keeps failing. If you watched the release party, Ballmer could not even pull up the Internetz on it successfully. Not to mention that they fucked it up by trying to keep the desktop stuff on there. We will wait and see what happens, the market will decide which system is better.

I owned a Windows CE touchscreen phone, a Windows Vista touch-enabled all-in-one desktop that was eventually upgraded to Windows 7 "touch edition", and the experience of using either one of them sucked balls. I still primarily use a regular Windows 7 desktop that works fine with a keyboard and mouse for 1/3 of the price of a comparable Apple system. But I also own an iPhone, and having used Android and played with Windows touch phones, I can say that neither comes close to the intuitive, integrated, worry-and error-free iPhone experience. I will reserve the final judgement on the Windows8 until it fully enters the market, but right now the signs are not very promising. Not to mention that Microsoft is unquestionably late to the party and had plenty of time to get their shit together.

6/22/2012 1:45:00 AM

have you used a touch tablet with windows 8 Release Preview? it's such a different experience that I wouldn't even compare it to any previous windows releases. it definitely meets or exceeds the iPad experience in terms of fluidity and ease of use. My laptop definitely gets neglected now.

6/22/2012 11:04:01 AM

When they came out with $800 and $1200 pricing they're done for. They have to push for $499 and maybe $699. Won't happen though.

Ok just saw this:

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Microsoft-Surface-prices-to-start-from-599-for-RT-999-for-Pro_id31505

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason : s]

6/22/2012 11:14:19 AM

599 is the same price as the 32 gb ipad, still should be 499 ideally. The pro is totally incomparable to any ipad.

Also the question mark on the end leads me to doubt the legitimacy of that article.

6/22/2012 11:28:24 AM

^^^No, and that's why i'm gonna reserve the final judgement until the tablets with the final release of the software come out. But it still does not change the fact that Microsoft "borrowed" a lot of ideas from Apple and Google.

I am not hating on Microsoft. As I said, I own both Apple and Microsoft products. But I like to give credit where it's due. Also, I happen to be in the market for a tablet. I could possible even use some of the "power user" functionality such as the Wacom digitizer interface and ability to run "real software" such as Photoshop and Illustrator. So i'm pretty excited to put my hands on one of these tablets. But if the touch experience fails, those other perks will not save the tablet for me, as I see it as a consumption device for 90% of time.

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

6/22/2012 11:48:25 AM

Keeps reminding me of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

And how horrible current touch technology is.

6/22/2012 11:56:50 AM

Quote :

" But it still does not change the fact that Microsoft "borrowed" a lot of ideas from Apple and Google. "

This is how companies work. Everyone takes ideas from other products, including apple.

6/22/2012 12:06:30 PM

If you hate MS for "borrowing ideas" you must LOATHE China.

6/22/2012 12:23:33 PM

^^Exactly.

You could give Apple the same crap when iOS came out in 2007. Same icons, tabs, dock as Palm OS. iOS dock looks just like the Windows Mobile 5/6 dock too. They'd been out for years.

6/22/2012 12:29:50 PM

I love China, because they make my awesome first-world lifestyle possible

Quote :

"Everyone takes ideas from other products, including apple."

Of course, but assuming a company does not invent ANYTHING brand-new, they can still add value to the product by finding the best practices, refining them and integrating them in the most seamless way possible. And that is a tough gig. That's why many other products that look very much like the apple cost 5x less and still sell poorly. It is even more difficult to do it consistently. I have a lot more trust in a new Apple product, because they have a history of delivering consistently great results, and not delivering half-assed junk to the market before it is ready for public release. Apple was so good at refining and integrating products, they really set the bar high for the competitors, and I dare to say we would still have cheap plastic gaudy hardware if not for popularization of great design and build that came with iProducts. Sony computer hardware was arguably occupying Apple's position for being innovative and well designed, but they failed to bring it all together like apple did, and they stayed in a niche market.

6/22/2012 1:07:33 PM

Really now?

6/22/2012 1:18:10 PM

jesus, dude, get your tiny weiner out of Steve Jobs' decaying corpse. Your slobber-fest is disgusting at this point. You want to talk about patents? Patents like "a sliding unlock bar". Get the frack out of here

and "ease of use"? REALLY? I tried to take an MP3 from a text message on an iPhone and set it as a ringtone, AND I COULDN'T FREAKING DO IT WITHOUT CONNECTING TO A COMPUTER. Seriously. Where the hell is the "ease of use" in that? I've been able to do a similar thing on phones that are five or six years older. Then, my mom tried to send me a picture that someone else had texted her. Guess what, it was damned near impossible, too.

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2012 4:55:21 PM

ITT, we learn aaronburro inherited his intelligence from his mother.

6/22/2012 5:15:58 PM

when she described what she had to do, it was absurd. Save it to her device. then find it on the device. Then make a message from it. you know what I do on my Windows Phone? Select the picture and, hit "menu", and choose "send picture to MMS" and I'm done. You know what I did on my SonyEriccson Z500 that was made in 2003? Select the picture, hit "menu", and choose "send picture to MMS". You're telling me that almost 10 years later, Apple can't figure that out?

6/22/2012 5:20:04 PM

You're the one that says that she found a 3 step process "damned near impossible"

6/22/2012 5:22:20 PM

^^for the next time, tell her to hit the edit button on the top right, then touch the checkmark next to the photo or message she wants to pass along, then hit Forward at the bottom. It's pretty easy imo

[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 5:52 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2012 5:52:08 PM

Quote :

"[quote]Ok. How about multiple desktops? Linux has had it for like 10 years. Mac has had it for 5. People have been wanting it since Linux has had it. "

Microsoft came out with a Powertoy add-on back during XP

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/downloads/windows-xp

Click on the PowerToys tab:
Virtual Desktop Manager - Manage up to four desktops from the Windows taskbar.

Came out April 2002 (10 years ago)

Just because you don't care to look for it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. [/quote]

I'm well aware of that addon. I have been for many years.

Did you even read what I read, or are you too fucking stupid to comprehend it? I know it's the MO of most faggot wolf webbers, such as yourself, to take what somebody said, quote half of it, then present some other irrelevant shit and then claim their point has been invalidated with some half-assed insult.

Here's the rest of what I said:

Quote :

"What's the hold up MS? You can give desktop users shet we don't want (Metro), but shit we do want you won't give us? Third party developers have done a half-assed job of implementing it. There is no justifiable reason why MS hasn't implemented it. "

You explain to me how a shitty powertoy addon (yes, I have actually used it) is any different from a third party developer who has implemented it as an addon to the OS. In the end, MS STILL has not implemented multiple desktops in their OS, which regardless of whatever stupid bullshit program you want to link to, does not refute that simple fact. It is not natively implemented into the OS.

6/22/2012 5:57:02 PM

Nobody except you wants it.

The sooner you learn to deal with that, the better off we all are.

6/22/2012 10:23:32 PM

Quote :

"Then she described what she had to do, it was absurd. Save it to her device. then find it on the device. Then make a message from it. you know what I do on my Windows Phone? Select the picture and, hit "menu", and choose "send picture to MMS" and I'm done. You know what I did on my SonyEriccson Z500 that was made in 2003? Select the picture, hit "menu", and choose "send picture to MMS". You're telling me that almost 10 years later, Apple can't figure that out?"

I doubt your mom would know what "MMS" means. In fact, on the Z500 she would have hard time reading the menu cause the menu fonts were so damn small. I just asked my wife to do the same procedure on my iPhone, she just held down the MMS with the picture and "copy" bubble popped up. Then she went to the "chat" text conversation with the other person and clicked the "paste bubble" then hit "send". Oh and speaking of it I don't think the Z500 organized text messages with each contact into chat-like conversation, although the technology was there to do it. No one just came up with a simple, human, intelligent way of organizing text messages at that point. Not rocket science here, but someone had to come up with this simple idea.


[Edited on June 22, 2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason : .]

6/22/2012 11:32:59 PM

Quote :

"Nobody except you wants it."

I hate trying to use multiple desktops. The only reason it's basically a requirement on linux is because of how terribad it is with multiple monitors.

6/23/2012 8:47:54 AM

Quote :

"In the end, MS STILL has not implemented multiple desktops in their OS, which regardless of whatever stupid bullshit program you want to link to, does not refute that simple fact. It is not natively implemented into the OS."

Uh, you realize it's not "natively implemented" into Linux either. I think what you mean is, it's not a feature shipped on the disc with Windows. Which, in 2012, is a completely arbitrary and stupid line to draw. Especially if you're a linux user, where pretty much everyone who's ever used a Linux distro loads packages from the web after doing their core OS install.

How is that any different than downloading an application FROM MICROSOFT to do exactly what you're asking to do?

6/23/2012 8:00:36 PM

Just played with a windows 7 phone for the first time. I was pleasantly surprised. The experience was much more fluid and responsesive then my iPhone 4. Looking forward to seeing what a windows 8 phone is like.

6/24/2012 10:35:29 AM

^^That is a very good point; I mean I remember some of the other Powertoys and they might as well have been native (Command Prompt Here is essentially a Registry change, while TweakUI is the godfather of all Windows tweaking apps, and RAW Image Thumbnailer and Viewer is on par with later releases like the WebP and Adobe DNG codecs), but it still is strange that a way to view multiple desktops wasn't even made an "Optional Update" (the way Microsoft Security Essentials, Powershell for XP, and new versions of the .NET Framework are), like it's really not that important to MS (also, does Microsoft make anything like this for versions of Windows other than XP?).

6/24/2012 7:52:26 PM

Quote :

"Nobody except you wants it. The sooner you learn to deal with that, the better off we all are."

Buahahahahahaha. Right. If you're going to come up with stupid shit like this, why waste your bandwidth?

6/24/2012 9:36:44 PM

"I'm running Internet Explorer. I can browse smoothly u. . . see. . . great pages using the. . . using ClearType."

6/24/2012 10:38:15 PM