hay look the "GeniuS" can count

[Edited on July 4, 2012 at 3:25 PM. Reason : lol

7/4/2012 3:25:28 PM

Whats the point? Things cost money. My friend just had a mass removed from his balls the other month. He would be in the hole at least 50k if it wasn't for his insurance. Im not really sure what we are discussing anymore.

7/4/2012 3:29:18 PM

At this point, I'm just collecting information. I haven't even really started doing the math and you're already giving up.

7/4/2012 3:49:17 PM

I should preface by saying that I'm much more liberal than conservative. That's why I hand this issue over to the conservatives with a heavy heart...

Quote :

"People like my terminally ill sister have accrued $1,800,000 of medical bills from the age of 16 to 24 because she has like 8 to 9 surgeries a year. All of these tests are experiments, not cures. They even gave her chemo, not for cancer, but for a lung-glue problem. The doctors are ridiculous and she can't change doctors due to health care coverage. She will most likely die from be an experiment rather than from her illness. Anyway... She didn't pay in that amount of money INTO insurance, so someone else is losing their insurance money. Multiply this times the number of patients that are stuck in the hospital for equally terminal diseases. Multiply this times the number of kids who haven't put any money into the system. That means your money isn't going to be there LATER in life because they are using YOUR money allotted for YOUR future medical bills, on OTHER patients TODAY."

Guys, I'd love to switch this around, and I'd love to have good basic medical care for everyone, but IMO, GeniuSxBoY (of all people!) has won this debate.

No one here is dumb enough that they don't get what insurance is, and we get the tragedy that is the 30 million uninsured people. But the liberals have fucked up the solution big time. Those uninsured people don't need coverage for >$1M medical events, but this is, in large part what the legislation works to accomplish. If someone gets a condition that will continue to accrue expenses over the next 30 years and come out to huge numbers, that will come out of the total pot. That is the trend you see in the legislation. The retirement of the baby boomers combined with advancing medical capability threatens to sink our economy. But those 30 million uninsured actually needed really really simple things, and I truly believe that more government action will prevent cost effective delivery of those really simple things.

I'm baffled by the flagrant refusal by liberals to recognize the fact that risk is a thing. It exists. This also includes the risk of dying. Get over it. I can nary think of a medical condition that costs >$300k that isn't almost as bad as death. In some cases it's worse. But why should I be so concerned about that if the risk is actually lower than death itself?

We need cost reduction and new things that can bring basic health care to the poor, not advancement of advanced life-extending health care. The liberals in the nation have missed this point. I only wish that we had another party competent enough to fix it. We don't.

[Edited on July 4, 2012 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

7/4/2012 4:22:16 PM

^bingo.

7/4/2012 4:35:47 PM

^^

With respect to risk, your argument is not with liberals, but with human nature. Most people will choose (or their loved will choose for them) nearly any course of action to prolong life, no matter how slim the possibility. They will do this against the advice of doctors and impartial observers who know a comfortable death is the best that can be done. I recommend watching Frontline's Facing Death, or you can simply look to Terry Schiavo, Dr. Kevorkian, abortion debates, etc. for examples of the lengths people (of all political stripes) will go to prevent death.

I agree the focus (and money) needs to be on preventive care and not simply bankrolling catastrophic injury/illness treatments. The ACA requires all plans to include preventive care benefits with no co-pays. This is a fantastic start, but it doesn't really address accessibility to health care. Many don't have ready access to basic health care, due to there simply not being any, not having the time (e.g., jobs that don't allow time off for health care), not having the means (transportation, ability to pay,...), etc.

I don't know of any liberals who wouldn't love to see availability and accessibility of basic health care improved. I also don't know what else can be done in the current political climate. Some of the same people who advocated spending (and did spend) incredible amounts of money in an attempt to keep Terry Schiavo "alive" will go to almost any lengths to keep healthy people from receiving preventive care to keep them healthy. And, unfortunately, it's not because those people have a better or even different idea. It's because they'd rather see one man fail than see themselves succeed.

7/4/2012 5:53:15 PM