Ok confused now. In the above why do the insulin levels spike up for carbonated water? Is that the response to optimize/prepare for digestion? So regardless of what you eat your insulin will always spike after consuming something?

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 5:37 PM. Reason : s]

4/9/2013 5:36:36 PM

Quote :

"The body of literature on the topic doesn't support the claim that very low/no calorie sweeteners have any significant impact on insulin release,"

as we all know, "significant" is subjective...it depends largely on any number of factors, not the least of which is the amount of consumption...did i ever once claim that having a can of diet soda was going cause one's insulin to spike crazily? of course not...YOU are the one that said there was NO response...which was a retarded statement to make, since that's completely untrue as it is consistent and measurable (ie. it's the rule, not the exception)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7652029
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2887500
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18556090
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782974/
http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/296/4/G735.long

Quote :

"and certainly not on fat gain. While taste stimulus may have some effect on gastrointestinal functions (a response to optimize/prepare for digestion), the energy needs of the body don't change due to this response."

did i ever once claim that no-calorie sweeteners affect fat gain or the energy needs of the body? no...i specifically pointed out that what you said ("There is no insulin response to diet sodas/calorie free drinks.") is incorrect...and it is, plain and simple

furthermore, the cephalic response can be different in different individuals...some see more of a response, while others see less...there are so many factors that play into it that to say outright that there is NO response is just dumb

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 6:26 PM. Reason : short version: don't make blanket statements]

4/9/2013 6:07:24 PM

Quote :

"Ok confused now. In the above why do the insulin levels spike up for carbonated water? Is that the response to optimize/prepare for digestion? So regardless of what you eat your insulin will always spike after consuming something?"

Right, that's the cephalic response. Studies have shown that this can be elicited by visual stimulus, oral stimulus, or basically anything that makes individual think they're about to eat something.

Quote :

"as we all know, "significant" is subjective...it depends largely on any number of factors, not the least of which is the amount of consumption...did i ever once claim that having a can of diet soda was going cause one's insulin to spike crazily? of course not...YOU are the one that said there was NO response...which was a retarded statement to make, since that's completely untrue as it is consistent and measurable (ie. it's the rule, not the exception)"

It's nitpicking, but okay. Statistical significance might be a little subjective; p-value is a little arbitrary, but .01 or .001 is pretty damn good if you plan to apply the study to behavior.

There's no statistic insulin response beyond what you would see with carbonated water, smell, a picture of delicious cake, etc. I'm sure there's variation between individuals, but for most people that are just trying to lose weight, you can't blame lack of progress on diet soda.

4/10/2013 9:21:07 AM

Quote :

"I'm sure there's variation between individuals, but for most people that are just trying to lose weight, you can't blame lack of progress on diet soda."

and that's the thing...i provided you with examples where it WAS statistically significant, consistent, and measurable

i never once claimed that diet soda inhibited weight loss...just that there IS an insulin response (in most everyone) when you take in artificial sweeteners, and that it CAN be higher - depending on the individual, the amount, etc - than baseline (your carbonated water, for example)

more to the point of this thread, unused insulin makes you feel like shit...so if a person IS having a significant response (if they're one of the unlucky few) when taking in artificial sweeteners, it's reasonable to associate that generally poor feeling with sweetener intake, even if the sweetener itself isn't actually the cause

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2013 9:42:17 AM

Quote :

"more to the point of this thread, unused insulin makes you feel like shit...so if a person IS having a significant response (if they're one of the unlucky few) when taking in artificial sweeteners, it's reasonable to associate that generally poor feeling with sweetener intake, even if the sweetener itself isn't actually the cause"

wat?

You're admitting that it's statistically unlikely to be the cause and still saying it's reasonable to blame it as the cause? Your and my definition of 'reasonable' varies wildly.

4/10/2013 9:59:30 AM

Quote :

"You're admitting that it's statistically unlikely to be the cause and still saying it's reasonable to blame it as the cause? Your and my definition of 'reasonable' varies wildly."

i said it's possible...which is true...and that's it

reading comprehension, kid...contribute or go troll somewhere else

4/10/2013 10:13:35 AM

Sincerely not trolling.

Possible != likely.
Blaming aspartame for "generally poor feeling" when it is not likely the cause is not reasonable (which is entirely the point of proving that it's not likely in a thread asking whether it's the cause).

Suggesting that it's a possible cause and possibly worth investigating: arguably reasonable.

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2013 10:33:00 AM

Quote :

"Sincerely not trolling."

i had to assume you were, since you claim i said things i did not say

Quote :

"Possible != likely."

when did i say it was LIKELY that an cephalic insulin response to aspartame was causing the OP to feel like crap? because if you read closely, you'll see that i only corrected d357r0y3r misconception and then went on to reference studies that suggest that there CAN be a more significant insulin response to artificial sweeteners in SOME people

Quote :

"Blaming aspartame for "generally poor feeling" when it is not likely the cause is not reasonable (which is entirely the point of proving that it's not likely in a thread asking whether it's the cause)."

good thing *i* never blamed aspartame for the OP's "generally poor feeling", then, eh?

Quote :

"Suggesting that it's a possible cause and possibly worth investigating: arguably reasonable."

good thing that's what i did, then, eh?

4/10/2013 10:39:08 AM