We don't have to wait to see how this will play out it is already legal to carry in these places in other states and shocker, it is not the wild west out there...

7/31/2013 2:30:42 PM

^this.

7/31/2013 2:56:34 PM

Quote :

"(By chilling effect, I mean that I would pretty much be sitting in that establishment constantly concerned about the dude with the gun, and I would not even exercise my normal freedoms because I'd want to make sure shit didn't go sideways.)"

Have you never thought about this before? Also there is a reason its called "concealed carry," you don't see the gun.

My 79 year old grandfather has had a firearm on him at all times (with very few exceptions, and even then it was in his car, with zero exceptions) for as long as my mother can remember. Usually two. I doubt anyone has ever been uncomfortable selling him a cup of coffee, buying anything from him at his permanent booth at the fairgrounds (left in the early 90's), ringing him up or walking passed him at Wal-Mart, etc.

7/31/2013 5:45:50 PM

Maybe I should have properly clarified, because it appears you guys seem to think I haven't actually thought about this and my opinion is irrational.

In terms of potential problems, I am thinking mainly about bars or restaurant/bar environments.

But in terms of a chilling effect, I'm talking about any time that I actually see someone's gun, so either open carry or a situation where someone doesn't have it concealed particularly well. I'm sure it all comes back to a difference of perspective, but when I see someone carrying a gun in a public place while they go about their business, I'd prefer to be somewhere else.

The primary reason to have a gun is to shoot someone if you need to, and the primary reason folks carry their gun everywhere would be because they feel they might need to shoot someone at any time, and they want to be prepared to do so. There are other reasons for each, I'm sure, but at the end of the day, I think someone who thinks there is such a concern about violence that they want to bring their gun to the IHOP, the amusement park, or the bar creates more problems than they'll solve. Everything is a cost benefit analysis.

But I recognize this is a personal stance.

7/31/2013 7:03:44 PM

but why are those problems not being created everywhere else where people have been carrying concealed for decades? what's magical now that will make it create problems?

7/31/2013 7:11:13 PM

if all the folks CCing were OCing, fuhctious would probably never leave the house

7/31/2013 7:42:38 PM

i'd leave the house long enough to fuck your mother. i'd fire a few rounds into her from my deadly weapon.

but seriously, you can keep discounting this point of view all you want, but it's neither irrational nor uncommon.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 7:51 PM. Reason : er]

7/31/2013 7:47:41 PM

rofl

7/31/2013 7:50:13 PM

http://www.wral.com/house-votes-to-relax-gun-laws-in-nc/12417880/

For those who have no idea what's happening in this thread yet. I'm seeing a lot of reasons why folks are in favor of the billing passing. I'd like to hear a decent argument against the bill if somebody could provide a link to one.

7/31/2013 7:50:15 PM

Quote :

"The primary reason to have a gun is to shoot someone if you need to, and the primary reason folks carry their gun everywhere would be because they feel they might need to shoot someone at any time"

Don't exclusively say shoot someone as a sole reason to conceal carry. There are woods next to where I work and I've seen a few wild dogs and foxes stroll through the area. I'd hate to cross paths with a mean one, or one with rabies. I carry to protect myself from any threat, animal or human. Better to be prepared than wishing you were.

The world is dangerous and it isn;t exclusive to just humans. There's wildlife to consider too. People often forget that being on the top of the food chain doesn't necessarily make you exempt from nature's dangers.



[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 8:16 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 8:05:07 PM

Quote :

"but seriously, you can keep discounting this point of view all you want, but it's neither irrational nor uncommon."

it is completely irrational.

you have been going about your business without fear and without incident for your whole life--and have been surrounded by people carrying guns the entire time.

What exactly is different now?

7/31/2013 9:03:25 PM

Quote :

"here are woods next to where I work and I've seen a few wild dogs and foxes stroll through the area"

My work mentor when he was 15 was given a shotgun by his pops and forced to go hunt down a pack of wild dogs that bit a 3 yr old neighbor in order to find out if it had rabied.....

He said when they caught up to the pack they charged and dropped the last dog with his last shell. Otherwise he was about ready to climb the tree!

7/31/2013 10:50:27 PM

^^Think of it the same way you think of the need to carry a gun - it's really two sides of the same coin.

CARRYING GUNS: While the chance may be very slim that you will have to use it, and you may have gone through your whole life and never had the need to shoot someone or draw a weapon for protection, if that situation arises, then the risk of harm or danger presented by not having your gun makes it logical to carry the gun constantly.

AVOIDING PEOPLE CARRYING GUNS: While the chance of that person using the gun in a way that is harmful or threatening is very slim, and I have gone through (most) of my life experiences without anyone ever pulling their gun out, the potential harm that can be created if someone chooses to do it makes it logical to avoid scenarios where I actively know someone is carrying.

There's a similar analysis conducted to determine whether an individual should have taken precautions in the tort world. The cost of the acceptable burden is determined by comparing it to the gravity of the harm if an accident occurs multiplied by the frequency of that harm. So where you have a very low frequency occurrence, it may still be appropriate to incur a burden if the gravity of the harm is extremely high.

As for the people carrying gun but me not knowing about it, that's a fair point. But I have friends who carry that I really worry about, because they aren't entirely rational, and I have friends who ride motorcycles, and I am concerned based on their recklessness that they are going to kill themselves. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it's not a rational level of concern. Obviously if I am unaware of a particularized danger, I cannot feel a certain way about it, but just because you don't know the Sword of Damocles is over your head, that doesn't mean there isn't a danger of getting killed. (I get that's an exaggeration, but it refutes your point that lack of knowledge is somehow the deciding factor here.)

What I find interesting is that this seems like an attempt to convince me that my personal opinion is somehow WRONG. I don't try and convince you guys that you shouldn't carry guns everywhere, I just think it may not be the best idea.

8/1/2013 4:32:12 AM

But what about this law changes anything, why have you not been locking yourself inside your house already? Your concern is irrational.

8/1/2013 6:13:58 AM

shove your head a little further in the sand and everything will be just fine

8/1/2013 7:48:29 AM

OMG PEEPZ WIT TEH GUNZZZ. RUNNNNN!!!!!11!!!!!111

8/1/2013 8:36:08 AM

Quote :

""The primary reason to have a gun is to shoot someonething if you need(or want) to, and the primary reason folks carry their gun everywhere would be because they feelunderstand that they might need to shoot someoneor something posing an immediate threat at any time""

I rationalized your thought process for you.

And in my grandfather's case, he work in Butner's federal correctional facility for many years. So yes, he was aware of the real possibility that a former inmate may recognize him and make good on the threats of post incarceration violence that all CO's receive. He prepared himself for such an event.

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM. Reason : italics are mine]

8/1/2013 9:02:09 AM

Even though the NCGA went off the deep end the last month, at least this is a bill I support.

I never got a handgun several years ago because I wouldn't have been able to carry into places I frequent-
namely outside riding bicycles on trails and universities.

Glad to know if I get a CC permit, I can carry on the Tobacco Trail. The shotgun is a little too conspicuous, you know?

8/1/2013 10:58:03 AM

I had a long conversation about the silencer while hunting yesterday with someone who owns more guns than appliances. It was interesting he said that a silencer on a hunting rifle would do nothing because of the high velocity rounds and you would have to go hunting with a 45(subsonic rounds) for the silencer to actually matter.

8/1/2013 11:40:17 AM

I heard that the silencers often were more for hearing protection in countries where they are used more often

8/1/2013 11:44:10 AM

^ Not to mention not annoying nearby neighbors. Suppressors make guns less loud. They don't make them quiet by any stretch. I suppose that a bolt action 22LR rifle with a suppressor and sub sonic ammunition would be pretty damn quiet. It would still probably run off near by squirrels however. The vast majority of hunters I know would never hunt with them because the process and expense of acquiring a suppressor is a long drawn out pain in the ass.

8/1/2013 12:05:34 PM

$250 stamp that takes about 6 months. And it's DUMB.

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 12:12 PM. Reason : *]

8/1/2013 12:11:49 PM

^more like 4-6 months to get the suppressor in, which is followed by a 8-12 month wait for the stamp to get prepared. you can't prepare the stamp until you have the suppressor.

8/1/2013 12:29:11 PM

and it is $200 for the stamp.

It makes .22lr very quiet, handgun rounds sound like banging on a snare drum (no snares, rough analogy), and some rifle rounds border on hearing safe, but you still have the sonic crack.

8/1/2013 2:21:44 PM

FYI: I have been told that even if you are not exiting your vehicle, if you cross onto educational property, the firearm must be in a locked compartment....

8/1/2013 2:41:17 PM

well that's exactly what it says, it doesn't say anything about entering or exiting:

Quote :

"HAVE A CONCEALED HANDGUN IN A LOCKED COMPARTMENT IN A VEHICLE ON EDUCATIONAL PROPERTY, "

8/1/2013 3:33:11 PM

make sure your doors are locked, inside the vehicle is a compartment according to open container and CHP laws.

The law says locked vehicle for entry exit, in closed container.

Quote :

"G.S. 14-269.2 is amended by adding the following new subsections to read: ... (k) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, who has a handgun in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle or in a locked container securely affixed to the person's vehicle. A person may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle provided the firearm remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked immediately following the entrance or exit.""

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2013 3:49:28 PM

How am I supposed to have a Wild West shoot out with someone who cut me off on Dan Allen if my gun has to stay in the car?

8/1/2013 3:57:04 PM

I, for one, would have felt very safe knowing that some stressed out nerd in my 200 person lecture room, hopped up on Adderal and coke, was packing a gun. Making him leave it in his car wouldn't have done any good

8/1/2013 4:01:00 PM

Quote :

"make sure your doors are locked, inside the vehicle is a compartment according to open container and CHP laws."

?

it says in a locked compartment AND in a vehicle, it doesn't just say compartment

8/1/2013 4:20:06 PM

Quote :

"I, for one, would have felt very safe knowing that some stressed out nerd in my 200 person lecture room, hopped up on Adderal and coke, was packing a gun. Making him leave it in his car wouldn't have done any good"

But if he had to leave it in his house off hillsborough street it would have?

8/1/2013 4:23:18 PM

Quote :

"closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle"

unlocked glove box or center console.

Unholster and place there before entering property.

8/1/2013 4:30:07 PM

Quote :

"it says in a locked compartment AND in a vehicle, it doesn't just say compartment"

you are quoting the bill description, not the actual text of the G.S. that is being changed

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 5:16 PM. Reason : the description doesn't matter. read the quote from the G.S. that maximadrvr posted]

8/1/2013 5:15:28 PM

I'm excited about this law to be honest... one of the few they have pushed through i'm happy about.

8/1/2013 5:15:33 PM

I'd be more excited about actual campus carry since it's where I work.

8/1/2013 5:57:12 PM

i've thought about getting my ccp but because of where I work i wouldn't be able to actually carry 95% of the time... looks like this law changes that.

8/1/2013 7:15:39 PM

I'd be more excited about actual campus carry since it's where I spend most of my days (I'm a student)

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 7:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2013 7:22:05 PM

It's actually true - guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

When they explode.

8/1/2013 8:11:15 PM

Quote :

" I'm sure it all comes back to a difference of perspective, but when I see someone carrying a gun in a public place while they go about their business, I'd prefer to be somewhere else"

how do you feel around law enforcement officers?

8/1/2013 8:49:04 PM

or, for that matter, people that you don't see carrying around you?

8/1/2013 9:13:22 PM

Quote :

""G.S. 14-269.2 is amended by adding the following new subsections to read: ... (k) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, who has a handgun in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle or in a locked container securely affixed to the person's vehicle. A person may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle provided the firearm remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked immediately following the entrance or exit."""

i still don't understand how you all are saying that the car is considered a container. it says very clearly that the gun must be in a locked container within a car.

additonally:

Quote :

"(4) The handgun is possessed in one of the following manners as appropriate: a. If the employee has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, the handgun may be on the premises of the employee's residence or in a closed compartment or container within the employee's locked vehicle that is located in a parking area of the educational property of the institution at which the person is employed and resides. Except for direct transfer between the residence and the vehicle, the handgun must remain at all times either on the premises of the employee's residence or in the closed compartment of the employee's locked vehicle. The employee may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit, but must lock the vehicle immediately following the entrance or exit if the handgun is in the vehicle."

closed compartment or container within the locked vehicle
closed compartment of the vehicle

Quote :

"a. If the employee has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, the handgun may be on the premises of the employee's residence or in a closed compartment or container within the employee's locked vehicle that is located in a parking area of the educational property of the school at which the person is employed and resides. Except for direct transfer between the residence and the vehicle, the handgun must remain at all times either on the premises of the employee's residence or in the closed compartment of the employee's locked vehicle. The employee may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit, but must lock the vehicle immediately following the entrance or exit if the handgun is in the vehicle."

etc... it keeps repeating this same phrasing.

graphical summary:
state property [ locked vehicle [container in vehicle - gun - container] locked vehicle] state property

Please explain the claim that the vehicle counts as a container, it explicitly makes a distinction that it must be a compartment or containerinside the vehicle

http://openstates.org/nc/bills/2013/HB937/documents/NCD00025016/

8/2/2013 1:29:05 PM

but the container doesn't have to be locked, just the car

8/2/2013 1:37:41 PM

Is there a definition of "container". I'm curious if a holster would count since that would be the most likely "container" for a CC permit holder driving through campus property.

8/2/2013 1:42:12 PM

^^ I'm not claiming that, I'm only responding to MaximaDvr's claim that:

Quote :

" inside the vehicle is a compartment according to open container and CHP laws."

I don't see anything that supports that claim

From my reading of it, his claim is not true

^I don't think so, as a holster can not be "closed" and is not "securely affixed to the person's vehicle"

8/2/2013 1:54:06 PM

ok, sorry. i was responding to this:

Quote :

"it says in a locked compartment AND in a vehicle, it doesn't just say compartment "

8/2/2013 1:57:50 PM

ah, sorry for the confusion. i mixed up vehicle and compartment when i was typing that.

8/2/2013 2:02:10 PM

Quote :

"how do you feel around law enforcement officers?"

I don't know about you but they definitely make me uneasy.

8/2/2013 2:04:07 PM

but not because you think they're just gonna start shooting all over the place

8/2/2013 8:17:17 PM

Speaking for myself I just assume that they are looking for any excuse to vigorously violate my civil rights.

However, they probably would love to have any excuse to use their weapon, that's why most of them sign up to be cops, the opportunity to wield lethal force with minimal chance of negative repercussions.

8/2/2013 8:59:51 PM

this is just inviting people in to rob bars and restaurants... like the damn gangster chicago days of the 1960's. force private businesses to let patrons carry guns and you are just asking them to be robbed or worst.

8/2/2013 10:23:57 PM