two jehovah's witnesses came to my house the other day and stole 5 minutes of my time, so i shot them both

10/3/2013 10:21:37 PM

Quote :

"i've never heard of it being legal to defend property with deadly force. there are castle doctrine laws that say you can kill anyone in your home, but that is legal under a different premise than the one here."

But you're forgetting, Texas is fucking crazy.

http://voices.yahoo.com/deadly-force-self-defense-protect-property-1625089.html
http://nation.time.com/2013/06/13/when-you-can-kill-in-texas/

Quote :

"In Texas (c), the law for using deadly force in defense of property is not new and is very broad. Texas law says a person is justified in using deadly force if they reasonably believe that this is necessary and the only way to prevent a serious crime such as burglary or theft or to prevent someone from fleeing with stolen property from your home or property. Texas law (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm) goes even further by adding the justifiable use of deadly force to protect someone else's property if a person "reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property." This means that you can use deadly force in Texas not only to protect your own property, but also the property of someone else. There have been incorrect reports in the media that you may only do this in Texas if you have been formally asked or legally required to protect the property of someone else. However, this is not a provision of the law as it is currently written. In any case, it appears that Mr. Horn did not have to use this particular provision because of the final statement he made to the 911 dispatcher. Again, he told the 911 operator that the men had come in his yard and that he felt he "had no choice" other than to shoot them. Since the shooting allegedly happened on Mr. Horn's property, the grand jury could focus on the special legal status given a threat to one's personal home or property."

Quote :

"Texas A&M Professor Mark Hoekstra, who studies the effectiveness of lethal-force provisions in self-defense law, says the protection-of-property element of the deadly force law is “pretty unique to Texas.” Within Texas, however, the case was not unique. In 2010, the law protected a Houston taco-truck owner who shot a man for stealing a tip jar containing $20.12. Also in Houston, a store clerk recently killed a man for shoplifting a twelve-pack of beer, and in 2008 a man from Laredo was acquitted for killing a 13-year-old boy who broke into his trailer looking for snacks and soda. Texas law also justifies killing to protect others’ property. In 2007, a man told 14 times by a 911 operator to remain inside during a robbery gunned down two thieves fleeing from his neighbor’s house. (“There’s no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?” the operator said on the call. The shooter’s response: “The law has been changed….Here it goes, buddy! You hear the shotgun clickin’ and I’m goin’!”) He was acquitted the next year. So-called “justifiable homicides” are on the rise in Texas, where in 2007 Governor Rick Perry expanded already expansive lethal-force laws to allow Texans to kill in their vehicles and workplaces in self-defense or in any location to stop “aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.” Though the penal code has included the clause discussing “theft during the nighttime” since the 1970s, some Texans might have taken the 2007 change as a declaration of open season. From 2002 to 2006, there were 146 cases of justifiable homicide committed by private citizens. From 2007 to 2011, the number jumped to 224, an increase of more than 50%."

10/3/2013 10:21:38 PM

Quote :

"“There’s no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?” the operator said on the call."

Whether you believe this store owner was morally justified or not, what this 911 operator said is definitely stupid. I am not talking legally here, just morally. I think most people would say shooting someone for stealing something worth 12 bucks is not worth it or right, but what if someone was stealing something worth 10,000 bucks? Or a million bucks? The point is, there is definitely some vague cutoff point beyond which it becomes right and morally justified to shoot the robber. (Different cutoff for different people)


[Edited on October 3, 2013 at 11:34 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2013 11:26:24 PM

what if it was a 12-pack of Dogfish 120-minute IPA?

10/3/2013 11:32:22 PM

I have no idea what that is

10/3/2013 11:33:27 PM

It's pricey.

10/3/2013 11:42:32 PM

Fuck that. I don't like people stealing from my store.

10/4/2013 12:29:38 AM

^6

holy fuck. that is insane. apparently i stand corrected.

[Edited on October 4, 2013 at 12:38 AM. Reason : d]

10/4/2013 12:32:21 AM

Quote :

"wner was morally justified or not, what this 911 operator said is definitely stupid. I am not talking legally here, just morally. I think most people would say shooting someone for stealing something worth 12 bucks is not worth it or right, but what if someone was stealing something worth 10,000 bucks? Or a million bucks? The point is, there is definitely some vague cutoff point beyond which it becomes right and morally justified to shoot the robber. (Different cutoff for different people)"

if you have property worth any substantial amount of money, it should be insured anyways

but no, no amount of property is worth it

[Edited on October 4, 2013 at 8:24 AM. Reason : .]

10/4/2013 8:23:02 AM

I just found a bottle of Dogfish Head 120 minute (my third actually ). While good, not sure worth shooting someone over.

10/4/2013 9:52:26 AM

even if Texas says it's legal, it's not worth the damn lawyer fees it's going to cost to get out of it

10/4/2013 9:58:17 AM

Agreed. I wouldn't shoot someone in the back running down the street with my TV but if someone is in my house it is a different situation. There is a decent chance you won't even be charged but I wouldn't want to take that risk.

10/4/2013 10:42:19 AM

Quote :

"but if someone is in my house it is a different situation. "

You don't even need Texas' wacky statutes for that!

10/4/2013 10:46:56 AM

I just like to have them in case I ever need them

10/4/2013 10:48:42 AM

Quote :

"You don't even need Texas' wacky statutes for that!"

depends on the state. NC's so-called "castle doctrine" law does not remove threat of serious injury or death as a prerequisite for use of deadly force.

10/4/2013 11:02:06 AM

http://www.everyjoe.com/2013/09/30/crime/rodney-james-duve-corpus-christi-texas-murder/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rodney-James-Duve-Is-Not-Guilty/1378406552384348?ref=stream

11/1/2013 9:32:42 AM

^^ Which is exactly why you shoot them through the door before they get in the house.

In reality though, a dead intruder wouldn't be able to claim he wasn't threatening you as he was trying to take your TV.

11/1/2013 10:50:53 AM

dead men tell no tales

11/1/2013 10:52:40 AM

....Up push the daisies till the soil is stale
In a powder blue tux for the farmer's sale
Mr. Big sleep with the carp and kelp

[Edited on November 1, 2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason : -]

11/1/2013 10:54:30 AM

^^but their relatives often sue

11/1/2013 11:12:53 AM

I feel no pity for the their. If he wasn't stealing he wouldn't be dead. #EndThread

11/1/2013 12:16:49 PM

i hate when people say "end thread" like they've said something profound or something

i don't feel bad for him because if he wasn't going 5 over the speed limit he wouldn't be dead

11/1/2013 12:18:59 PM

I hate when people make a statement that means nothing. Speeding is not the same as stealing. Until the punishment for stealing is fixed I support shooting them. Its not hard to not steal from someone.


We all know speeding ==stealing

[Edited on November 1, 2013 at 12:24 PM. Reason : lol]

11/1/2013 12:24:15 PM

it's not hard to not speed. it's breaking the law. it's putting other innocent people in danger.

arguing that this guy deserved to die is ridiculous.

[Edited on November 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason : ]

11/1/2013 12:27:25 PM

he was stealing beer... i would say this killing is justified.

11/1/2013 12:34:41 PM

OK speeding is stealing

11/1/2013 12:40:13 PM

That wasn't my argument. Okay, a few weeks ago I asked you "Are you a troll trying to act dumb? Or are you just dumb and trying to troll?" The answer is becoming more obvious.

11/1/2013 12:51:38 PM