Quote :

"Dear Felicia: check a mirror. You're making an assumption about those gamers base on their appearance alone. Does she think her actions will help the gaming community, by intentionally avoiding people that are just as likely to be fans as they are to be the horrible people she assumes they are? That's just hypocritical."

you probably should have read her entire piece before posting that. just a thought.

10/23/2014 11:52:01 AM

you're correct, and i've updated that post. i was wrong.

10/23/2014 11:56:46 AM

So is the timeline...

1) March: Anita Sarkeesian calls games historically sexist
2) August: Zoe's ex-boyfriend goes psycho and calls her a slut in public and makes up claims about her trading sex for reviews
3) August: Neckbeard gamers, subtly fuming over anita, jump on these lies and start harassing female gamers
4) More August: Female gamers get angry, start harassing neckbeards
5) August-Present: Tech/news sites report on the harassment, which seems predominantly gamergaters harassing women
6) Present day: there's no clear message on what the gamergaters want, or what they were even upset about anymore, it's just people who self-identify as neckbeards that love scantily clad women in games upset that more attractive gamers look down on them

10/23/2014 12:49:26 PM

gg started with Quinn. These idiots have been raging about Sarkeesian for a long time.

Quote :

"1) Anita is this decade's Jack Thompson."

This is so brain dead it hurts. Here's what I wrote on another forum:

Quote :

"re: Sarkeesian's "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series, she says in the first minute of the first episode: "This series will include critical analysis of many beloved games and characters, but remember that it's both possible and even necessary to simultaneously enjoy media while also being critical of its more problematic or pernicious aspects." That's why the meme of Sarkeesian coming to "destroy games" or comparisons to Jack Thompson make so little sense. She's a gamer. She wants more games, better ones, and still enjoys playing those that she criticizes. It's not an attack on gamers. If anything, the criticism is aimed at the developers."

10/23/2014 5:18:59 PM

That was hyperbole matching some of the hyperbole I was responding to.

I actually agree with a lot of the things she says, but much of it I think is ridiculous, and unfortunately it's nearly impossible to have a 2 way discussion about it because anyone with anything critical to say is painted with the same brush as trolls who send her death threats.

I think she should have done a video on current positive depictions of women in games and examples of how other games might change to meet those standards much earlier in her series. I think a lot of vitriol comes from people who don't know what she really wants and what she wants to see changed. For example she has many examples in her videos focusing on violence against women in open world games. Does she not want women in open world games? Or does she not want to be able to kill people at all in open world games? Maybe she wants women to be invincible like the children in Fallout?

10/23/2014 5:46:04 PM

I don't like all the shady journalism stuff that seems to be going on behind the scenes, which is what I was upset about. At the same time the extremely personal attacks from both sides are ridiculous. Worst of all is the trolls who just jump into this to throw gasoline on the fire and piss people off. I don't think they really are on a side per say, I think they just like to start shit. And its much easier to target and piss of semi-public figures like Anita and now Felicia then some anonymous gamers or some Youtubers. Attacking Felicia really gets me too, because I have never seen her be threatening to gaming or masculinity or any of that horseshit. Quite the opposite in fact. She brings a nice female touch to things, which is lacking, but also makes gaming more approachable to women. I don't think women are not "being allowed" into gaming due to some grand misogynistic scheme, but at the same time we don't need to have gaming affirmative action for women or allow misandry or other reverse discrimination to make things more equal. I wish everybody would just grow up and allow gamers to vote with their wallet.

And while Zoe didn't fuck for reviews, I think the initial information out of that showed how close devs and journalists really are. There needs to be some more separation there to give some appearance of not being biased. There was another game review that was reviewing and giving lots of positive press to her girlfriends video game. Between shit like that and the GameJournoPros collusion over stories and deciding in private as a group what articles should be aired and what should be killed, its hard to taking "gaming journalism" seriously from the larger websites like Polygon and Kotaku.

10/24/2014 7:54:05 AM

Quote :

"That was hyperbole matching some of the hyperbole I was responding to."

Yeah my initial description of the Anita situation was full of outrageous hyperbole

And since it's actually a pretty widely held view among 'gamers' there was really nothing to indicate you weren't being serious.

^Come on. "Hey Game Journalist friends, I feel like this harassment is pretty fucked up" happening over email is not collusion.

Quote :

"I think the initial information out of that showed how close devs and journalists really are. "

The initial information out of that showed an angy ex encouraging harassment over a private matter. When the ORIGINATORS of a movement are documented discussing tactics on how to make the 'slut' 'kill herself,' it's pretty hilarious to later hear "Actually it's about ethics in games journalism."

But if we must, "Yeah, wow, that indie developer having sex with other developers and a writer is PREPOSTEROUS and I hope they didn't give her free game any undeserved press or I might be tricked into playing it until realizing it's not really my type of game and moving on with my life."


[Edited on October 24, 2014 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

10/24/2014 4:40:08 PM

Quote :

"start harassing female gamers"

idk if 'start' is the right word

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

10/24/2014 5:47:08 PM

Quote :

"I think she should have done a video on current positive depictions of women in games and examples of how other games might change to meet those standards much earlier in her series."

That's one of the future episodes.

10/24/2014 9:41:43 PM

^ also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqYLfm1rWA#t=23m02s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs#t=23m34s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjImnqH_KwM#t=21m16s

Quote :

"For example she has many examples in her videos focusing on violence against women in open world games. Does she not want women in open world games? Or does she not want to be able to kill people at all in open world games? Maybe she wants women to be invincible like the children in Fallout?"

I wouldn't say she has "many" examples of unscripted, beating up some woman equally on a San Andreas street type of violence. Most of her "Open world game" examples are scripted, like red dead redemption damsel stuff and your GTA character on his own knocking out a chatty woman for lulz during a mission. For every open world example she has multiple women being blown to bits during a cutscene for increased edginess examples.


[Edited on October 24, 2014 at 10:13 PM. Reason : .]

10/24/2014 10:10:49 PM

Quote :

"That's one of the future episodes."

I know, that's why I said "much earlier"

Quote :

"I wouldn't say she has "many" examples of unscripted, beating up some woman equally on a San Andreas street type of violence. Most of her "Open world game" examples are scripted, like red dead redemption damsel stuff and your GTA character on his own knocking out a chatty woman for lulz during a mission. For every open world example she has multiple women being blown to bits during a cutscene for increased edginess examples."

^https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRSaLZidWI

(Yes I know this guy probably has some sort of insane anti-feminist rant that you think discounts all his arguments, but just watch this one and say Anita is right)

[Edited on October 24, 2014 at 11:31 PM. Reason : ]

10/24/2014 11:26:49 PM

So I said "I wouldn't say she has 'many' of this," and you showed me one, out of her many solid examples. Great job.

For the record Thunderf00t is an embarrassing human and he fundamentally does not understand most of the feminist points he attacks.

His Watch Dogs analysis is pretty hilarious. "These sex slave female characters being used as background decoration damsels in distress are being RESCUED by our male hero! How could she possibly claim this is sexist or a problem in any way?! Does she advocate NOT rescuing sex slaves?! Being rescued by gruff men is GREAT. What more could we possibly ask for?"

If you're unable to see the value in her criticism at large then I can't help you.

[Edited on October 25, 2014 at 6:56 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2014 6:48:20 PM

So are you admitting she's wrong about this point? If so, it's the first step in having a dialogue.

Or am I a misogynist enabler for daring to point out an error in her flawless research?

for more comprehensive criticism: http://gamesided.com/2014/09/08/sarkeesian-truth-part-1-straw-feminist-trojan-horse-censorship/

I see value in her criticism as pointing out sometimes overused tropes (although with the number of games released every year the term "overused" is relative). However she claims these tropes are harmful and problematic without bothering to prove it, and she heavily implies that certain stories have no place in gaming anymore.

[Edited on October 26, 2014 at 1:07 AM. Reason : ]

10/26/2014 1:01:25 AM

^^

10/26/2014 12:44:17 PM

People like you and thunderf00t don't seem to legitimately want a real dialogue, though.

And it's not worth having a discussion with reactionaries who have no interest in really listening to anything and who conflate art criticism with censorship while calling someone a liar and this decade's jack thompson.

Honestly it seems a little fucked up that a woman comes along calmly saying "Hey, here are some things I find a little upsetting as a woman and would like you to think a tiny bit about" and is met with a response of "Well, actually, I'm a man and here's why this and this and this is empirically and objectively wrong and your experience is invalid and also you're a liar and a hypocrite and a con artist."

10/26/2014 6:46:32 PM

Here's a pretty good and fair breakdown on the escalation of gg from vox, which has been mostly anti-gg.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/1/7136343/gamergate-and-the-politicization-of-absolutely-everything

11/3/2014 12:00:50 PM

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2015/04/28/gamergate/

insane.

4/28/2015 9:49:58 PM

^And people will still say with a straight face that GG is about ethics.

The sad thing is I actually felt mildly bad for him when reading the "Zoe post." He had been cheated on and felt wronged and yea the post was totally unethical and childish, but not too surprising for a scorned lover. But WOW he comes off as a real psychopath here.

[Edited on April 28, 2015 at 10:30 PM. Reason : z]

4/28/2015 10:29:35 PM

^^That article.. man... what in the goddamn fuck...

It blows my mind that Gjoni's actions aren't criminal in some way shape or form, and that he's still free to walk around in public and stoke the flames of all this. This isn't about ethics, it's about him being a little bitch after a breakup and exacting as much pain as possible from his ex to make himself feel better.

And the comments at the end of the article.. people are fucking horrible...

4/29/2015 8:20:39 AM

That dude she's with now must be a saint. To stick with her after all that, losing job opportunities, putting his own life on hold...props to him.

4/29/2015 9:20:17 AM

Hahahaha nerds

4/29/2015 10:29:14 AM